Scuttled Nazi treasure submarine

[gollum]

Hey Cornelius,

Does that not light a candle in your brain ?

That, in itself isn't very offensive, but combined with the statement below, does seem a little insulting.

Let's close this subject because I think that you are someone that knows it all

Granted, it's not nearly as bad a calling my momma names , but I have seen people get crazy over MUCH less.

Nobody is denying that your onsite information is as good (or better) than what most people know. I have agreed with you more often than not. I have done the same thing myself (that is why I recognize it). I have posted something to someone that was either a joke or meant to be taken one way, and I get an answer in which it is clearly obvious that what I meant didn't get through, because in part, or entirely my post was taken the wrong way. The best barometer is what the person the post was directed at feels. He felt insulted, and stated as much.

I just hate seeing bad feelings between people where they don't need to be. I have been there myself (more than once).

On the other hand, if someone makes an outrageous claim, and your answer is meant to be insulting, my point does not apply. I have done that as well, but I don't think that you were meaning to insult the guy (that's why I chimed in about it).

Best,

Mike

 

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[gollum]

Cornelius,



I know what you meant, but pretend you didn't write it. Comment#1 could be taken as his brain wasn't working when he formulated his theory.

Look, I'm not saying either of you are correct. I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject. There do seem to be some people here I know to be knowledgeable that don't poopoo the idea.

Best,

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

***** Mike, however I personally like and respect Cornelius and Bodabilla, but I too would have taken offense. But remember Gollum, English is not Cornelius' native language so he may miss some nuances, and so things may be taken out of context.
I wish that I could speak German and Dutch as well as he does, but sigh, me a thick headed Irishman who is lucky o speak a half--- form of English.

Tropical Tramp

 

[gollum]

I didn't know that English was not Cornelius's first language.

I did, however, think that he did not intend to insult Bobadilla. That's why I made mention of it.

Best,

Mike

 

[Voldbjerg]

It seems there is a lot of interest in Nazi uboats. The last one that left Germany was the U534, the third of May 1945. It was sunk by liberator planes in kattegat before it entered the atlantic. BTW Bremen was not the last base of operations for uboats, Kiel was. Anyway - the sub was rumoured to hold Nazi leaders and tons of treasures, but when it was found and subsequently salvaged they found nothing but mud inside. Some of the story can be read here:
http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/u534.html

And here is a picture of the actual salvage operation. It must have cost a fortune raise.

 

[Bobadilla]

Hello Peg Leg,

Thanks for your post. I agree with your philosophy and I will definitely follow my first thoughts and feelings. May be I am wrong, may be not, but it is the pepper and adrenaline of treasure hunting, isn´t it? Follow the trail, sometimes may be to be more optimistic than the reality is, but never mind. If Heinrich Schliemann would had listened opinions of all the people around him, he would have never discovered Troya.

Cornelius,

English is not my mother language either. Let us smoke the pipe of peace and forget about offences. You say that this topic does not interest anybody any more, I can see that there is still certain interest among Tresurenet membres so I will follow to answer to Mike, Mariner and to all the others that show the interest. If you would join, you would be welcomed to the discussion but nobody forces you to post your opinion in this topic either. If you do not like it, just leave it as it is, my friend.

Regards,
Lobo

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Cornelious, Bobadillo, spoken like the gentlemen that I know you to be .

Tropical Tramp

 

[gollum]

BRAVO! That's what I wanted to see!

Best to all,

Mike

 

[GorskiDvr]

Thankyou for posting that great photo !

 

[Bobadilla]

Thank you, Cornelius!

Best regards
Lobo

 

[Bobadilla]

Hello Mariner,

The matter of salvaging German war submarine is alway very delicate. If one day somebody would find German submarine with tresure on board, it can be declared and claimed by Germany as a owner of the vessel, by the states where these stolen treasures came from, by the country in which territorial waters submarine was found, and so on. It can be also declared as a war grave because nobody can say if there are no dead bodies inside. May be the best way would be to try to lift it out of the water (if it would be possible, of course) and then to figure out what to do with it. It also depends on the fact what could be found inside.

I concentrated myslef just to find such a submarine and I did not think about what to do after so far. But you are absolutely right, it would be great mess. Definitely I am against some illegal looting and damaging history artifacts and not only in case of sunken German submarines.

Regards
Lobo

 

[mariner]

Lobo,

I agree with everything you say, except that you probably would want to get everything in place before you actually lift the sub. Personally, I think that unless you got Germany to agree to recovering the sub and its cargo, no court in the world would sanction its recovery. Getting Germany to agree would be very difficult: I do not think they would want to be confronted by this image of their past.

However, I am very impressed by your dedication to this project that I certainly hope you do eventually find such a sub, and find a way to legally examine its contents.

I do not know if there is a remote sensing device that would differentiate between different types of metal that was enclosed within a metal object like a submarine. If such technology does not exist at the moment, perhaps it will in the near future. That might help you at least to have the satisfaction of proving to yourself that you had found a treasure-laden submarine.

Best wishes,

Mariner

 

[barney]

The book was written about a German sub wrecked off of St John, USVI. Higgins stayed at Caneel Bay, St. John and was diving with Marcus.
He badgered me about the location which I would not reveal nor take him to. It is a German type XXI with the port side of her hull crushed in just aft of the tubes. It lies in between Culebra and St. Thomas in a very deep tidal rip.
Doc

I am always entertained by these "mystery" U-boat wrecks that seem to be everywhere
Anyway, in regard to the supposed Type XXI U-boat in the Carribbean, here is some information that some might find interesting....

There have been rumors around a mystery U-boat off St. Thomas for some time. Supposedly it was off the west coast, similar to what Doc states above. I learned of some rumors that stated demolition operations were conducted on the hulk of a U-boat during the 1950s and 1960s, as there was a UDT school established there at Charlotte Amalie up until 1967. However, I contacted one of the team members and they told me the wreck they regularly dived during training was the freighter GRAINTON -- unfortunately no U-boats.

In any case, the rumors had legs when I learned about a guy on St. Thomas who sent a telegram to the President of the United States (!!) stating he planned to salvage a German U-boat off Brewer's Bay. The telegram was forwarded along to the office of the JAG, and humorous correspondence between JAG and the salvor bounced back and forth. The prospective salvor was Mr. Roy G. Griscom, President of Oceanic Salvage and Towing Corporation of St. Thomas. Mr. Griscom even identified the vessel as the "U-3038". His correspondence with JAG is dated March 1962.

The interesting thing is the identification of the U-boat. In reality it was not the U-3038, but the U-3008. The U-3008 was one of two Type XXI U-boats that was possessed by the US following WWII. The other was the U-2513. They both were commissioned into the USN. The U-3008 eventually wound up at Roosevelt Roads, Puerto Rico, where it was used in sinking/salvage training. It eventually was stripped down, and in fact the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago has its periscope and other portions of the vessel in its collection. The hulk was of no further use, and because it took up dock space needed for Operation Springboard planned for 1956, she was put up for auction. The U-3008 was sold on September 11, 1955 to Loudee Iron and Metal Company. It was subsequently removed on January 17, 1956, and scrapped.

I don't know the outcome of the communications with Oceanic Salvage and Towing, but I don't get the impression anything was ever done, nor was a U-boat ever off Brewer's Bay. A friend at the University of the Virgin Islands told me they surveyed that whole area following a hurricane in the 1990s and there was no potential submarine in the area. Further, I had some work with USVI fishermen a few years ago and inquired about these rumors. While I found out about several other wrecks, no one knew about a potential U-boat wreck, and most thought it was just an urban (island?) legend.

FWIW, I have the correspondence and other documentation on the U-3008 in my files if anyone is interested. If anyone can provide any CREDIBLE information that there is a wreck out there, I would love to learn about it. Other than that, I just think its one of the many fictitious U-boat stories floating around, albeit with a nice tropical flair....

Cheers,
Mike

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Mariner,
the U-534 was raised against Germany's objections. Hey gollum, where do you get those outrageous video clips? Are they home made?

 

[gollum]

Hey Salvor,

I make most of them myself. I cut a short video clip. Take screenshots from the video. Resize the pics. Put them in order to make an animated .gif. Those are the easy ones. The hard ones are where I have to actually manipulate individual photos, to make it look like action (see below). Those take forever to make. But, I'm kind of a computer geek, and find it fun.

Best,

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bobodilla: My sincere apologies, I have been so involved in selling two of my mines that I let our man on the sub slip through my fingers. However he will be back for the CHRISTMAS holidays. See, I said it CHRISTMAS!

Gollum probably wouldn't have the courage to say that!

Tropical Tramp

 

[macblastr]

not WW 2 but interesting:

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/news/594.aspx

 

[mariner]

Salvor 6,

Thanks for that info about the U-534. It prompted me to spend several hours looking at related material on the Internet. I will probably go and look at the wreck when I next visit the UK as it is just across the river from my home town of Liverpool (assuming it is still on display). However, having read about the history of its salvage, and some of the more recent debate, it strikes me as very unlikely that that any court would now award salvage rights to the wreck of a U-boat. I don't know much, however, about attitudes to such things in, for example, South American countries.

Mariner

 

[Bobadilla]

Hello Tropical Tramp,

Thanks for the post. I understand and I hope that you have sold your two mines well! Of course, I will wait till Chrsitmas or whenever your sub man comes back. I am looking forward to get any info from you.

Regards
Lobo

 

[daydreamer]

Would not the treasure on such a downed ship be the rightful property of the Jewish people it was stolen from, not Germany, not any other government, but the true victims of the war?
I think other treasure is obtainable-- where this one would never even pay for the salvage, after the courts, and shark lawyers finished feeding off this grave.