Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (More New Pics Added 12/14)

[Mackaydon]

Re: Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (PICS ADDED TODAY)

Armchair:
The coin was originally 'clipped' to bring its weight into conformity with the weight for that given denomination. In a previous post, I gave you the weight for an 8-reales, noting that lesser denominations (4, 2 and 1 real coins) would have proportionally lesser weight. So what is the weight (in grams) and denomination of this coin?

 

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[divewrecks]

Re: Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (PICS ADDED TODAY)

I'm guessing its an eight reale. I have seen plenty of eights with a similar shape, but I don't think I have on a four. They usually tended to be more rectangular or rounded.

Stan

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (PICS ADDED TODAY)

Armchair:
How about showing us the pile of 68 coins with a US quarter in the pic for size comparison?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (PICS ADDED TODAY)

I would appreciate an identification of the cob from you guys, I really just dont know what I have. I have been metal detecting for two years mainly on Seminole war forts in Central Florida. Honestly, I know nothing about this cob other than what I have read about the 1715 fleet. I would really appreciate a proper ID of it. Thank you guys very much.

Yes it appears to be an 8 reale from the 1715 fleet but should be a bit larger and heavier than a US quarter. How about some more pics?

 

[divewrecks]

Re: Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (PICS ADDED TODAY)

Yes it appears to be an 8 reale from the 1715 fleet but should be a bit larger and heavier than a US quarter...

Quite a bit heavier, since mint specs call for a a quarter to weigh 5.67 grams...Stan

 

[divewrecks]

Re: Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (PICS ADDED TODAY)

OK, I'll quote a little from Dr. Alan Craig's book on silver coins in the Florida collection:

"Another common Mexican variety we chose to call a "wristwatch" cob is illustrated by specimens in (figure reference). Again, there was much discussion among us as to why such a distinctive shape should be commonly repeated by the Mexican coining process. These elongated cobs clearly were made by shearing off appropriate lengths of a silver strap, then adjusted by more shearing to the proper weight, struck with does, and finally beaten on both sides by an extra-heavy hammer blow, or blows, that spread out the central area, often leaving behind tiny tension marks.

In a methodical business where no unnecessary work was encouraged, we must ask why this wristwatch shape was deliberately repeated. A possible answer seams to be for stability on counting stacks of these narrow coins when they are placed one on top of the other. If there is another practical reason for continuing to belabor planchets in this manner after they have already been struck with dies, we have not been able to identify it."

The book this was taken from (ISBN 0-8130-1748-3) and Craig book on gold coins in the Florida collection are both considered an essential part of any serious cob collector's library.

Stan

 

[Diver_Down]

Re: Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (PICS ADDED TODAY)

^^^^

Thanks Stan for the book recommendation.

 

[Hangingfor8]

Re: Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (PICS ADDED TODAY)

Not to be rude, but until I see the actual pile of cobs with armchair in the pic I'm not buying this story. I know it does happen but only when the Gods smile on some special person and the seas are right. If at some point the pics with him and the cobs are produced I will promptly and willing give my sincerest apologies. Sorry I had to do this, but I feel as if we are being taken for fools on here.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Rookie Question For Sebastian Inlet Treasure Hunters (PICS ADDED TODAY)

Maybe he found them while strolling the beach with a set of these sandals. http://www.hammacher.com/Product/76779?promo=search

Lets say you were walking along the Sebastian Inlet beaches with your metal detecting sandals and you found 68 coins about the size of a quarter but not round like a quarter and they were solid black. Before you cleaned them what would you think about them from the area you found them in? What years should they be? What should they look like? What would be the value of these coins? Where should they be from? Can you provide pics of uncleaned coins? Thank you very much.

 

[armchairQB30]

Here are some more pics with the one I originally posted.

Here are three new ones to review.

Thank you.

 

[armchairQB30]

Ugh!!! Sorry the back of the cobs did not post. Let me try again.

 

[armchairQB30]

Sorry here is another one.

 

[armchairQB30]

I will also try and weigh them this week.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here are some more pics with the one I originally posted.

Here are three new ones to review.

Thank you.

I guess you are going to tease us, little by little, several cobs at a time. There is no reason to keep the story theoretical. Anything you find on the beach is legal to keep. The story will also make them easier to sell at a good price if thats what you wish. Its hard to imagine finding such a large grouping of cobs on that beach today with all the renourishment but it appears that you have and Im sure you missed some. Was this after a hurricane, NE wind, or hard rainstorm? Please tell the whole story here or in Todays Finds and let the members vote for banner. Nobody likes to be teased. BTW nice find and they look like genuine 1715 fleet silver.

 

[divewrecks]

Look good Armchair! Yes, they are 1715 fleet for sure. I can barely make out the "J" assayer, which is most common. Also, I think I see the outline of the "17" on one of the coins, but that is just because I know where to look.

It is probably good to keep a low profile until you know you have gotten everything within detectable range. I don't blame you for saying or showing more for now. What kind of detector are you using? I recommend you buy or borrow a pulse induction machine with a deep seeking coil and clean out the spot when there is the least chance of being spotted as I mentioned to you previously.

Whatever you do don't clean them (yet). Call me if you need any help interpreting what you have....

Thanks for putting a little whammy on the naysayers!

Stan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks for putting a little whammy on the naysayers!

Stan

I understand you wanting to believe and respect this poster but we have only seen 4 cobs, not 68. We dont know if he found them last week or 50 years ago. He never even said it was he who found them. If he wanted to remain low profile, he shouldnt have posted the teaser story. The story is already out. The best thing to do would be to keep the location secret.

BTW I believe him, but he hasnt said much.

 

[divewrecks]

Maybe this story from about 5 years ago will provide some motivation.....Stan



Hurricane Unburies Beach Treasure, Yields Precious Coins
The Orlando Sentinel, on Mon, Oct. 25, 2004
by RICH MCKAY

INDIALANTIC, Fla. - (KRT) - It is the stuff of pirate legends, but do not waste your breath asking Joel Ruth on what stretch of Florida's Treasure Coast he found his hoard of Spanish pieces of eight - waiting to be scratched out of the sand with bare fingers and toes.

Treasure hunters guard their secrets.

Especially, if like Ruth, they have just found about 180 near-mint silver coins worth more than $40,000.

To most Floridians, hurricane season is the time to board up windows and dread the worst. But to professional and amateur treasure seekers, it is the time to hit the beaches and hunt lost riches.

"It's why we're called the Treasure Coast," said Ruth, a bookish 52-year-old marine archaeologist with an African parrot named Euclid who has learned to squawk "Pieces o' eight."

It takes the big storms like Jeanne and Frances to rake several feet of sand off the beaches and dunes and expose gold, silver and gems sunk and scattered centuries ago.

But making a find takes more than walking the beaches with a metal detector. What separates those who make a real find from the legions of beachcombers is knowledge and patience, said Sir Robert F. Marx.

Marx is an underwater archaeologist and marine historian who was knighted by both the Spanish and English crowns for his work, including about 800 popular and scientific articles and about 60 books.

His colleague Ruth, for instance, has been keeping his eye on a certain stretch of beach in Brevard County, Fla., for 20 years, checking it every so often as the years go by, Marx said. He and Ruth think the find is part of a sunken treasure fleet off Florida's Atlantic coast.

But it took Jeanne to bring a slice of the shoreline back to where it was in 1715, he said.

That is the year a famous Spanish treasure fleet of about a dozen ships sunk in a summer hurricane, bloated with treasure headed for Philip V of Spain, Marx said.

Captain-General Don Juan Esteban de Ubilla, commander of the flotilla carrying gems, gold, silver and porcelain from China - hence the name Plate Fleet - set sail in the late summer 289 years ago.

Under pressure from the king to bring treasure to boost a war-ravaged economy, Ubilla set sail even though hurricane season had already started. Leading with the Capitana, the fleet hugged Florida's Atlantic coast, heading north in the hopes of catching the trade winds of the Gulf Stream. With no more warning than a morning of steel-gray skies, a tempest snapped the ships like matchsticks, a few survivors would later tell.

Nautical records of salvage attempts and previous finds pointed to the spot Ruth staked out to search. Others know the spot and have made finds there, too.

The basic rules of treasure hunting on beaches include finders keepers, but do not dig into the dunes or in protected areas.

Because riches go to those who are there first, "You have to be Johnny on the spot," said Mitch King, vice president of the Treasure Coast Archaeological Society.

"(Hurricane) Jeanne did more destruction than any storm has in years," King said. The last storm to yield finds like Ruth's happened on Thanksgiving about two decades ago, he added. Treasure hunters still whisper about it.

And you have to be quick, Ruth said, because the high tides right after a storm often dump several feet of sand back on the same beaches, leaving the heavy treasure well below the reach of most metal detectors.

"You could be walking over a million dollars in coins and never know it," said Ruth, who makes a living on salvage efforts and identifying and restoring ancient coins.

He headed out with his metal detector about 8 a.m. Sept. 26, when Jeanne's winds started slacking off. He knew the storm that brought some of the worst destruction to Florida's coast could also yield the most riches.

He would not say where he went other than "somewhere in Brevard." He shimmied down to the beach from a place where there is access - and knew right away it was a good spot. There was no modern trash - and the waves had cut deep into the sand.

"I made a find almost immediately - a big green (piece of) eight," he said.

It was green from age but was not worn or corroded, which told him the coin spent most of the time deep under the protection of the sand - making it far more valuable to collectors.

Ruth stayed for about four hours, filling his pockets with coins until his batteries were about dead and the high tides' waves bashed him against the sandy cliffs.

He went back the next day, but there was too much sand piled up. He did not find a thing, other than modern rubbish.

He showed his find to Marx, who smiled with approval and the respect of a fellow hunter. Although many marine archaeologists would call them "plunderers," professional treasure hunters say they give more discoveries to museums and make more historical finds because their ventures pay for new searches a life in academics could not finance.

And where does Ruth find the coins? "I'm sworn to secrecy," Marx said.

But if another storm hits before hurricane season ends Nov. 30, he will probably go back.

 

[armchairQB30]

I really appreciate all of your comments, thank you very much Divewrecks, Trez, Mackaydon. I will try and get them weighed shortly. Thanks again.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe this story from about 5 years ago will provide some motivation.....Stan



Hurricane Unburies Beach Treasure, Yields Precious Coins
The Orlando Sentinel, on Mon, Oct. 25, 2004
by RICH MCKAY

INDIALANTIC, Fla. - (KRT) - It is the stuff of pirate legends, but do not waste your breath asking Joel Ruth on what stretch of Florida's Treasure Coast he found his hoard of Spanish pieces of eight - waiting to be scratched out of the sand with bare fingers and toes.

Treasure hunters guard their secrets.

Especially, if like Ruth, they have just found about 180 near-mint silver coins worth more than $40,000.

To most Floridians, hurricane season is the time to board up windows and dread the worst. But to professional and amateur treasure seekers, it is the time to hit the beaches and hunt lost riches.

"It's why we're called the Treasure Coast," said Ruth, a bookish 52-year-old marine archaeologist with an African parrot named Euclid who has learned to squawk "Pieces o' eight."

It takes the big storms like Jeanne and Frances to rake several feet of sand off the beaches and dunes and expose gold, silver and gems sunk and scattered centuries ago.

But making a find takes more than walking the beaches with a metal detector. What separates those who make a real find from the legions of beachcombers is knowledge and patience, said Sir Robert F. Marx.

Marx is an underwater archaeologist and marine historian who was knighted by both the Spanish and English crowns for his work, including about 800 popular and scientific articles and about 60 books.

His colleague Ruth, for instance, has been keeping his eye on a certain stretch of beach in Brevard County, Fla., for 20 years, checking it every so often as the years go by, Marx said. He and Ruth think the find is part of a sunken treasure fleet off Florida's Atlantic coast.

But it took Jeanne to bring a slice of the shoreline back to where it was in 1715, he said.

That is the year a famous Spanish treasure fleet of about a dozen ships sunk in a summer hurricane, bloated with treasure headed for Philip V of Spain, Marx said.

Captain-General Don Juan Esteban de Ubilla, commander of the flotilla carrying gems, gold, silver and porcelain from China - hence the name Plate Fleet - set sail in the late summer 289 years ago.

Under pressure from the king to bring treasure to boost a war-ravaged economy, Ubilla set sail even though hurricane season had already started. Leading with the Capitana, the fleet hugged Florida's Atlantic coast, heading north in the hopes of catching the trade winds of the Gulf Stream. With no more warning than a morning of steel-gray skies, a tempest snapped the ships like matchsticks, a few survivors would later tell.

Nautical records of salvage attempts and previous finds pointed to the spot Ruth staked out to search. Others know the spot and have made finds there, too.

The basic rules of treasure hunting on beaches include finders keepers, but do not dig into the dunes or in protected areas.

Because riches go to those who are there first, "You have to be Johnny on the spot," said Mitch King, vice president of the Treasure Coast Archaeological Society.

"(Hurricane) Jeanne did more destruction than any storm has in years," King said. The last storm to yield finds like Ruth's happened on Thanksgiving about two decades ago, he added. Treasure hunters still whisper about it.

And you have to be quick, Ruth said, because the high tides right after a storm often dump several feet of sand back on the same beaches, leaving the heavy treasure well below the reach of most metal detectors.

"You could be walking over a million dollars in coins and never know it," said Ruth, who makes a living on salvage efforts and identifying and restoring ancient coins.

He headed out with his metal detector about 8 a.m. Sept. 26, when Jeanne's winds started slacking off. He knew the storm that brought some of the worst destruction to Florida's coast could also yield the most riches.

He would not say where he went other than "somewhere in Brevard." He shimmied down to the beach from a place where there is access - and knew right away it was a good spot. There was no modern trash - and the waves had cut deep into the sand.

"I made a find almost immediately - a big green (piece of) eight," he said.

It was green from age but was not worn or corroded, which told him the coin spent most of the time deep under the protection of the sand - making it far more valuable to collectors.

Ruth stayed for about four hours, filling his pockets with coins until his batteries were about dead and the high tides' waves bashed him against the sandy cliffs.

He went back the next day, but there was too much sand piled up. He did not find a thing, other than modern rubbish.

He showed his find to Marx, who smiled with approval and the respect of a fellow hunter. Although many marine archaeologists would call them "plunderers," professional treasure hunters say they give more discoveries to museums and make more historical finds because their ventures pay for new searches a life in academics could not finance.

And where does Ruth find the coins? "I'm sworn to secrecy," Marx said.

But if another storm hits before hurricane season ends Nov. 30, he will probably go back.

I didnt read it yet Stan but I remember the incident. I was on those beaches after hurricane Francis myself. I joined Treasurenet to ID a silver item I found. But that was before beach restoration. Joel Ruth only found those cobs because he knew where to go and went out in the middle of the night after 2 consecutive hurricanes, but the next day he couldnt find a single cob because the sand had buried everything that quickly. You just dont stroll down the beach now and find 68 cobs by accident without a backhoe..

However, I believe his story but it didnt happen last week. Maybe Armchair is buying these cobs and wants to know if this scenario sounds feasable. The answer is no. ...not lately...not likely. After a storm, yes, its certainly possible.


Armchair, I hope I havent offended you. You presented a scenario and you appear to be asking a question. If someone told you they found 68 cobs on the beach last week, its a little far fetched. Do you realize how many metal detectorists are on those beaches every day? Yes, they appear authentic 1715 fleet cobs and some could even be more black depending upon whether they were washed up or flushed out of the dunes.. Maybe they were found in the water. Maybe at a lesser known location. Maybe you are Joel Ruth playing with us. Again Armchair, I hope I havent offended you. Just telling you the truth.



Seriously I hope Im wrong and these beaches will start producing more than an occasional reale. Heres a pic you requested. (not mine)

 

[Salvor6]

The coins in that picture came from the Jupiter wreck 3 years ago. I was there.