Rock Engraved Treasure signs by the Peralta group,in the Superstitions

[desertmoons]

oh yes, it seems credible that some owned slaves and it was legal and accepted.


Eh, guess i got side tracked as i always keep my eye out for accounts of schackled skeletons being found in caves or mines. The point there being that that sort of thing of burying people alive did in fact happen. So far found that one reference...

 

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[gollum]

Many of those stories of shackled skeletons in sealed mines are just that......stories.

Those same stories are told about Pirate Treasures too. I have trouble believing that Jesuit Priests murdered innocents so that their spirits would guard the treasure. Do I believe that some Spanish Miners murdered Indians and threw them into a sealed mine so that the superstitious Indians would stay away Yep.

The only one I believe with almost 100% certainty is the Victorio Peak, NM Story. In that one, 16 skeletons were found staked out to the floor of one of the caves.

Best-Mike

 

[djui5]

Can we dispense with the bickering?

Seriously!!! I'm so sick of it. No offense Mike, you know I love ya

 

[gollum]

OHMYGOD!!! JUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! HOW WILL WE EXPLAIN THIS TO THE CHILDREN??



There's no bickering! It WAS just a healthy debate.

Until the last couple of posts, Lamar was doing a great job of researching and attempting to counter my posts. THAT'S what a good debate is. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for the last couple.

Best-Mike

 

[rangler]

Thanks Mike
The expertise that you displayed
in your debate against Padre Lamar was awesome indeed.
He took the outlandish position of the Churches' Cover Story as though he
was 'of' the Mother Church herself.. but when he met his match in historical
research, his position was untenable and he admitted defeat by his absence.

What all the interested parties learned was that the Jesuits were not the
sqeekly clean group of 'foot soldiers' that the Pope ever launched into the
New World. That they mined, smelted gold, hid the Kings share and
shipped the bulk to the Pope, had slaves, used them accordingly for their
own ends, and the Popes as well. And NOT against some Laws of the God
or the King, but most likely with Contracts with King, and the Nod of the Pope

Knowledge is indeed power, that is why....I say..seek knowledge rather than silver
understanding rather than gold. P8


auferiously
rangler

"IF you don't like a debate, then you don't like to dig to get to the gold"

 

[gollum]

Rangler,

Thanks, but as I have stated previously, ANY Jesuit Mining Activity would have been illegal. There was no Contract with the King (other than that which gave the Jesuits control over Northern New Spain, and this expressly forbade the Jesuits from conducting ANY "for profit" ventures).

Best-Mike

 

[rangler]

Mike
OK - but then - what were the reasons to have slaves
if it was not for some profit venture?
Just asking
rangler

 

[desertmoons]

i never meant to infer that Jesuits blocked up slaves or anyone in mines. The Spanish - very possible!

 

[Old Dog]

Mike
OK - but then - what were the reasons to have slaves
if it was not for some profit venture?
Just asking
rangler

Lazy is usually spelled with a small "L"
B@st@rds is spelled with a capitol B

LOL
Thom

 

[gollum]

Rangler,

The reason was that many in the Church felt that slavery was the best way to protect the heathens. After all, it says nothing about slavery being wrong in the Bible. I guess it all goes to your reasons for owning slaves. The Spanish did it for profit, and from what I gather, the Jesuits owned slaves to protect them.

Even though they worked them on their farms and ranches (and yes, in their mines).

Best-Mike

 

[rangler]

gollum,old dog,
I think that some tiny part of this picture is missing in that I don't see the Jesuits
there by themselves, a contingent of Spanish Soldiers/Conquistadors was defiantly
posted, They were the real protection, seeing the Jesuits as the brain trust, the skilled
mining engineers, the keen businessmen, they did the lay-out of the mine, overseeing
the operations of all the mission business. Herding, mining, agriculture, slave trading.

Just a thought..trying to get the picture to come in to focus........

The slaves were obviously used to mine and extract the ore once it was mined.,the nasty
work of using mercury took its toll..since the slaves were "under the control" of the Spanish Soldiers
it gave the Jesuits the 'plausible deniability' - likewise the friends of the Jesuits, we asked
to come over to the New World, to accept Spanish Land Grants, furthering the 'arms length'
agreement of the Jesuits to have 'dominion' over the land and its assets.

I do know that they imported expert miners from Germany and Wales, from the 'worked
-out' tin mines to Mexico in the mid 1500's, that legacy lives on as part of the culture in
the "omm pahh" music and the accordions in most of the National Mexican music.

Oh - as an aside, I have a very close friend, treasure hunter, dowser, who was taught
how to dowse by a Mexican-of-German decent, His life's work was to dowse for Jesuit
Treasures left prior to the Expulsion, for the Catholic Church!, They only wanted the
Gold and Silver Church Artifact and Relics. Any ore, metallica, or dore bars were his
to keep. He worked very closely with another Mexican National, whom he went to
school with..who just happened to be a Mexican Army General..who gave him protection
and carte blanc anywhere in Mexico his research led him to...both parties have passed on
and now it is ok to reveal a little about this subject..since it shows that the Church had
knowledge of the Jesuits activity and was interested in reclaiming Reglious relics that the Jesuits
had cast from the gold and silver mined from the areas that they had control over..
auriferiously
rangler

 

[VICTORIO]

Rangler Wrote " I do know that they imported expert miners from Germany and Wales, from the 'worked
-out' tin mines to Mexico in the mid 1500's, that legacy lives on as part of the culture in
the "omm pahh" music and the accordions in most of the National Mexican music. "

You are Correct. Don Rangler " Polkas ".

 

[Oroblanco]

Tag post please ignore <yep I am THAT lazy >

Fascinating discussion amigos, I raise my cup to you
Oroblanco

 

[bob123]

Even before reading some of the posts in this forum,I had been thinking about posting these photos. I to while searching in different locals in the So.Cal. desert, and close by forests have seen many what i think to be carved rock clues or unusual rock formations that might lead to something more, just dont have enough time to follow them up. On more than one occasion I have turned around to see Indians looking at me for a quick second,a flash,and their gone, and I leave also. When you think your alone,you ain"t.
The 1st photo is the Peralta master map, the 2nd one is 1 cave entrance a part of the map shows how to get there,the 3rd,shows the way in Varas to another treasure....

I would be carful exploring if uve seen indian ghosts then they could try and protect whtever you find but thats only if you belive in ghosts.
-Bob