Rebellion: South Carolina to Outlaw Obamacare in Their State

[Unclebuck257]

Yeah, don't let the door hit you on the way out!

NF,

In a "friendly way" I must say that I'm surprised at your response noted above. Above most others in here, and aside from any political differences, you have got to see why various states would opt out of Obammycare for financial reasons alone, IF they had the backbone to do so.

 

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[Native Floridian]

Seems SC cares more about babies than NJ does. Maybe 7 times more.....

2008 NJ # of abortions 54,160

2008 SC # of abortions 7,300

We will NOT go quietly into the night!

If the subject were abortion it would be on topic. However, the subject is healthcare. IE helping those who are living. In that realm SC infant mortality rate is very much connected to their lack of helping their own in need.

BTW, part of that number can be explained by the fact that NJ has almost twice the population of SC. And that that population is more religiously diverse.

It should be noted that before Roe v Wade abortion was illegal in NJ. Not so in SC.

2008 Florida # of abortions 94,360 Wow!

 

[UncleMatt]

In CA the state government is ignoring or "interpreting" Federal law to ban dredging. Are most of the people on this site for or against that state government for doing that? I would say they are against that in my opinion. Now apply that mindset to the ACA.

Ignoring Federal law really never works out in the long run, whether you agree with those laws or not. Cherry picking should occur in the orchards of our country, not in state governments.

 

[Native Floridian]

Hospital emergency rooms can not turn people away because they can't pay. Unless they do things differently where you're from.

But they will bill them for the visit. That's everywhere. because of this those without insurance don't go. Nor do they take their sick babies. Thus the higher infant mortality rates. Obamacare will change that.

Ad this factor in: A place like SC is rural. It's a really nice place to live geographically. The climate is mild. The place is full of small towns. Even it's biggest cities are smaller than all but the smallest counties in the Northeast. The county where I live has five times the population than does SC's largest city. Even my home in Fl is located in an area that matches SC's most populous. The point is - In a place like SC there are a lot less ways for an infant to get hurt or sick. less traffic, less exposure to others etc etc etc. And SC has good hospitals. Good health care. They aren't like Louisiana where voodoo rules the bayou(I joke). Every external factor points to their infant mortality rate being lower. Yet it is not only higher. It is much higher.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Par for the course! South Carolina has a history of not caring much about health care. And it shows! The state has 20% less physicians per capita then the national average. (that means they are below average). And, their infant mortality rate is almost 40% above the national average. I know with you guys it's all about the money, but there is another price to pay when you are too cheap to ante up.

Shame for the people who live there.

Wonder how many of those babies would have lived had they been born in NH, or NJ?

NF YOUR the one who brought infant deaths into the thread remember. ..

As far as NJ has more abortions because it has twice the population doesn't fly, NJ has 17 per 1000 while SC has 8 per thousand so NJ has over twice as many per 1000 residents.

They are articles about coming doctor shortages in America before lucifercare ever came into being...


And again, Supreme court has already ruled that the Feds can not force states to do any leg work on Federal regulatory work.... They can not force local law enforcement officers to enforce Andy federal gun control or any other Federal regulatory laws.....


We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[Native Floridian]

NF YOUR the one who brought infant deaths into the thread remember. ..

As far as NJ has more abortions because it has twice the population doesn't fly, NJ has 17 per 1000 while SC has 8 per thousand so NJ has over twice as many per 1000 residents.

They are articles about coming doctor shortages in America before lucifercare ever came into being...


And again, Supreme court has already ruled that the Feds can not force states to do any leg work on Federal regulatory work.... They can not force local law enforcement officers to enforce Andy federal gun control or any other Federal regulatory laws.....


We will NOT go quietly into the night!

RE articles about coming doc shortage - written by journalist - some agenda driven. IOW not experts. No basis in fact.

You are absolutely correct about the Abortion rate in NJ versus SC. it is higher per thousand. But that's not how you posed your rebuttal. You posted an absolute number of abortions. When looked at from that POV population does matter. larger population states like NJ and Florida will have larger numbers than a lower population state like SC. So, i just responded to the way you chose to challenge my statement. Though in fact, anyway it is cut SC's abortion rate is much lower than that of either NJ or FL.

Abortion versus Infant Mortality rates - have no connection. One is a moral issue the other a health care issue. That infant mortality and access to healthcare are connected makes it germane to the topic. Which is why i brought it into the topic. it has absolute correlation. That SC's stance on healthcare is indefensible, and you've got no where to go on the healthcare issue, you and others have decided to change the argument to abortions. Which has zero correlation. if the topic of the tread is now morality of abortions, we can talk about that.

 

[Crispin]

NF YOUR the one who brought infant deaths into the thread remember. ..

As far as NJ has more abortions because it has twice the population doesn't fly, NJ has 17 per 1000 while SC has 8 per thousand so NJ has over twice as many per 1000 residents.

They are articles about coming doctor shortages in America before lucifercare ever came into being...


And again, Supreme court has already ruled that the Feds can not force states to do any leg work on Federal regulatory work.... They can not force local law enforcement officers to enforce Andy federal gun control or any other Federal regulatory laws.....


We will NOT go quietly into the night!

TH,

I read about this in one of my journals today. It is no myth, there is a coming doctor shortage. Sure its all statistics, but is pretty well accepted in the medical community that this is coming. The number of med student acceptances has increased by ten percent to try and offset. The problem is that the number of residency spots are being cut back by the government to save cost. Residency spots are federally funded. However, I'm guessing that was a lot of opinion because it didn't state what percentage of residency spots are currently held by foreign medical grads...my guess is a lot. Another interesting statistic is that the percentage of male to female acceptances has shifted in the last five years. In early 2000 more women were being accepted then men, it has reversed over the last five or so years.

Bottom line, don't be surprised if your doctor has a foreign accent in ten years and didn't go to school or residency in the USA. Can't imagine why doctors are getting burned out...everybody treats thems so well....

Crispin

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Crispin:

"The problem is that the number of residency spots are being cut back by the government to save cost. Residency spots are federally funded."

Why haven't the private hospitals stepped up to fill the gap? Why is the medical profession dependent on Federally-funded residency positions?

Where's the private sector when we need it?

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

RE articles about coming doc shortage - written by journalist - some agenda driven. IOW not experts. No basis in fact.

You are absolutely correct about the Abortion rate in NJ versus SC. it is higher per thousand. But that's not how you posed your rebuttal. You posted an absolute number of abortions. When looked at from that POV population does matter. larger population states like NJ and Florida will have larger numbers than a lower population state like SC. So, i just responded to the way you chose to challenge my statement. Though in fact, anyway it is cut SC's abortion rate is much lower than that of either NJ or FL.

Abortion versus Infant Mortality rates - have no connection. One is a moral issue the other a health care issue. That infant mortality and access to healthcare are connected makes it germane to the topic. Which is why i brought it into the topic. it has absolute correlation. That SC's stance on healthcare is indefensible, and you've got no where to go on the healthcare issue, you and others have decided to change the argument to abortions. Which has zero correlation. if the topic of the tread is now morality of abortions, we can talk about that.

" Abortion versus Infant Mortality rates - have no connection. One is a moral issue the other a health care issue."

Tell that to the babies that died.... Aborting a healthy fetus when mother's health is not in danger is not a moral issue, they are a human being with a beating heart at the very least is a moral crime.............




"Currently, at least*38*states have fetal homicide laws.* The states include:*Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington,West Virginia*and*Wisconsin. At least*23*states have fetal homicide laws that apply to the earliest stages of pregnancy ("any state of gestation," "conception," "fertilization" or "post-fertilization"); these are*indicated below with an asterisk (*)."
*

 

[Native Floridian]

Crispin

Can you post a link?

I seem to remember the doctor shortage issue as being dated news. That a shortage has been predicted since the late 1990's. Yet, so far, has not come to pass. And, definitely has no connection to obamacare, as Ocare wasn't even on the horizon when this issue first surfaced.

I am aware that there is a shortage of GPs. Not enough dough to interest those who are on the hook for six figure student loans.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

TH,

I read about this in one of my journals today. It is no myth, there is a coming doctor shortage. Sure its all statistics, but is pretty well accepted in the medical community that this is coming. The number of med student acceptances has increased by ten percent to try and offset. The problem is that the number of residency spots are being cut back by the government to save cost. Residency spots are federally funded. However, I'm guessing that was a lot of opinion because it didn't state what percentage of residency spots are currently held by foreign medical grads...my guess is a lot. Another interesting statistic is that the percentage of male to female acceptances has shifted in the last five years. In early 2000 more women were being accepted then men, it has reversed over the last five or so years.

Bottom line, don't be surprised if your doctor has a foreign accent in ten years and didn't go to school or residency in the USA. Can't imagine why doctors are getting burned out...everybody treats thems so well....

Crispin

Your correct. The real shortage will be in general practice.... They saw the shortage coming before lucifercare was ever thought about, but it is going to greatly magnify the shortage......

 

[Crispin]

Crispin

Can you post a link?

I seem to remember the doctor shortage issue as being dated news. That a shortage has been predicted since the late 1990's. Yet, so far, has not come to pass. And, definitely has no connection to obamacare, as Ocare wasn't even on the horizon when this issue first surfaced.

I am aware that there is a shortage of GPs. Not enough dough to interest those who are on the hook for six figure student loans.

The journal is at home. I'll try to send the link after work. You are right, it has nothing to do with Ocare. This has been coming for a variety of reasons. The shortage will be mostly in GP, peds, internal medicine, OB, and psychiatry. There will never be a shortage of specialists....they make too much money. There will never be a shortage of doctors in major cities. The problem is rural areas. I got ridiculous offers every day from head hunters to move to an underserved area. There are a lot of them and they are growing fast!

 

[Crispin]

Crispin:

"The problem is that the number of residency spots are being cut back by the government to save cost. Residency spots are federally funded."

Why haven't the private hospitals stepped up to fill the gap? Why is the medical profession dependent on Federally-funded residency positions?

Where's the private sector when we need it?

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

OB:

Private hospitals don't want residents because private physicians don't want to train them. Taking on a resident in the first couple of years is a major slow down and cost to a physician. Even the best resident slows down a doctor until they can work independently in their 3rd and up years. No incentive for private physicians to take them on. Would be a huge paycut.

It also has to do with the labor laws. Residents are not allowed a union, nor are they allowed to strike. The "rules" surrounding work hours are grossly violated and the incentive to report will only tarnish a resident's resume. I worked over 100 hours a week. Funny, how the sheet I filled out always worked out to 80 hours a week. They get away with this because it is a federal "grant." Just more BS. I got paid under minimum wage in residency. Worked extreme hours and under extreme stress. Who wants to sign up for six figure medical school loan and then four years of that? Any takers?

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Crispin:

Both my grandfathers were doctors. One was the classic old country doctor - the other did railroad work and life insurance exams.

My grandmother was one of (if not the first) MD's in Cook County.

That was a different world!

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The journal is at home. I'll try to send the link after work. You are right, it has nothing to do with Ocare. This has been coming for a variety of reasons. The shortage will be mostly in GP, peds, internal medicine, OB, and psychiatry. There will never be a shortage of specialists....they make too much money. There will never be a shortage of doctors in major cities. The problem is rural areas. I got ridiculous offers every day from head hunters to move to an underserved area. There are a lot of them and they are growing fast!

My friend how do you figure lucifercare will not affect the shortage of doctors. You will have who knows how many new people trying to see a GP doctor, many of whom have never seen a doctor or haven't seen one in decades.

Not only do we already have a shortage but subtract the ones who will quit if lucifer tries to force them to take lucifercare against their will.





We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[Dave44]

Par for the course! South Carolina has a history of not caring much about health care. And it shows! The state has 20% less physicians per capita then the national average. (that means they are below average). And, their infant mortality rate is almost 40% above the national average. I know with you guys it's all about the money, but there is another price to pay when you are too cheap to ante up.

Shame for the people who live there.

Wonder how many of those babies would have lived had they been born in NH, or NJ?

OOOOH I can't wait to see how you try to spin this into something that loosely resembles facts.. Has the state come on out and stated,, "We Hate Health Care"? " and babies" Or some such?

Wow,, disinformation this ingenious must have come straight from Think Progress or other Marxist site?

Yes Dave, tracking infant mortality rates is a Marxist plot.

States with best access to healthcare have the lowest infant mortality rates. Damn marxist!! They are a healthy bunch! And they care about their kids!

Did you follow the previous post you made,, or my response? I didn't say anything about infant mortality in that post ,, I pointed out your ridiculous notion that SC doesn't care about health care. Weird response NF.

 

[Crispin]

My friend how do you figure lucifercare will not affect the shortage of doctors. You will have who knows how many new people trying to see a GP doctor, many of whom have never seen a doctor or haven't seen one in decades.

Not only do we already have a shortage but subtract the ones who will quit if lucifer tries to force them to take lucifercare against their will.





We will NOT go quietly into the night!

TH: Ocare may make the problem worse but the problem was a long time in the making to begin with. What you will most likely see is good doctors will not except Ocare at lower reimbursement rates and only do private insurance. Crappy doctors, who have no other options, will see all the Ocare patients because private companies will not credential them. If you have private insurance it will probably not effect things too much. BTW, I didn't mean that the Ocare wouldn't make it worse...I just meant the problem was in the works way before Ocare came about. It takes 12 years of school to get a doctor trained. The shortages were due to the decline of doctors going into medicine in the 90's and early 20's. also has to due with the Baby Boomer generation getting older and needing more healthcare. Those are the two biggest factors.

Other factors are physician burnout due to electronic health records, government form mandates, hassle by reimbursement from insurance companies, frivolous law suits...and yes Ocare. No doubt a lot of older physicians will retire instead of having to deal with these changes. I know a lot of them who are already set up a retirement date. However, the younger physicians are trapped...big loans to pay off, family to support, declining payment, and not qualified to do anything else.

After all that being said. I still see patients for free when the need is high. Physicians serve the sick whether they can pay or not. Just like our armed forces protect all of us, even those who do not believe in upholding the constitution.

NF: the journal can only be accessed via paid subscription online or in the mail. It doesn't have anything earth shattering in it. Pretty much a summation of what I stated above.

We will not go quietly into that good night.
Crispin

 

[Chadeaux]

Good post Crispin.

I would add one thing though that adds to the shortage, but it's just my OPINION:

Sub Par primary and secondary education in the public schools has affected the numbers as well.

Many candidates arrive at college ill prepared for the experience or the challenges and most of all, not academically prepared.

Recently had a conversation with my PCP about Obamacare, and whether he was in my network. He could not answer that, but assured me that if I wished to continue to see him, I could continue to make the same copay and he would accept it as payment for his services.

Lots of physicians still don't know where they stand with Obamacare, or at least they didn't last month. They are having trouble getting straight answers on some of their questions.

 

[Native Floridian]

Chad, there are no empty seats in medical schools. The best schools have acceptance rates of less than 5%. That leaves a lot of applicants on the outside looking in. And it puts them in seats at schools that were not their first choice.

The debate over doctor shortages is too broad. AS Crispin noted there is no shortage of doctors going into specialty areas. good to know we'll always be able to find a brain surgeon! it is the areas of general practice that are seeing less practitioners. And that is not something new, or something connected to Obamacare. it is something driven by the high cost of receiving a medical degree. Let's face it, saddled with six figures of school loans to pay off, if one had the choice to make $150,000 to $200,000 or $500,000 to several million dollars a year which would most chose?

GP's are a dying breed. Unfortunately!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Lucifercare will greatly affect the shortage of GP.....

We will NOT go quietly into the night!