Rattle snakes things to know

[deepsix47]

I was at the cave site of Sam Bass last month, I was doing a little digging and I got tired, I started looking for another way in , not paying too much attition for snakes I almost got bit by a very large rattler, now I have been close befor to being bit, and know the sound of a rattler, but this was a very large one, the sound this large rattler omitted was a very slow and a very low pitch sound and I did hear it in time, the larger the snake the slower he rattles and the lower the sound is, the younger ones give a very high pitch and a very fast sound. after thought was it was a cool day,but that snake fought me for about 10 mins. and was very fast after me, so the cool day was not the answer, it was the size and the age of the snake, but the most important thing that learned that day was alyways stay up hill from a rattle snake, I found out that he cant move as fast up hill after me, if I had been down hill from him he would have bit me for sure for he was the most agressive snake that I have ever encounter. Txtreasuerhunter

The pucker factor can get high very quickly when you run into a snake....lol. In the mid-1980's I was living in Colorado. I had heard a story somewhere about an outlaw cache that was supposed to be in the area of Castle Rock. The cache was supposed to be in a cave and the entrance was hidden by a large boulder. One day I was swapping stories with some friends and one of them told a story about playing in a cave as a child that fit the description and that it had a couple of old lanterns and other things in it. I convinced him we should find it again. It took several trips but we did find it at the base of a cliff face that had once been on his grandfathers ranch. I was pretty excited (it takes excitement to get me into a cave in the first place). We had to take off our day packs to squeeze through the entrance. It was pretty much as he had described it and the excitement got higher. It looked like a natural formation and we got to work with our metal detectors. I was working the base of a wall and got a hit (it turned out to be a belt buckle). When I was digging it out I saw a small hole in the caves wall and started chipping at it. I looked into it and could see daylight. All of a sudden a section collapsed about the size of a football. Yep, you guessed it, I had chipped my way into a Rattlesnake den. I yelled "Snakes" and started back peddling and when his light hit them we both headed for the entrance at the same time. The snakes were coming into the cave and we were leaving. We're still not sure how it happened but both of us got through the entrance at the same time with our metal detectors and my day pack. It's amazing what can be accomplished given the proper inspiration. Have a great day!!!!

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

OK, got to say something here!

This is my first post here and I just purchased a Minelab Xterra-30.

I love snake as well as all other critters. I know a lot about snakes, I have been catching them ever since the age of 8. I think what it was that made me like them so much was going on a field trip with some friends and family to the White Mountains in Arizona. On this trip we ran across a rattler sunning on some rocks at the edge of a large crevice. The snake tried to get away but was pelted with rocks. It was quickly killed and the snake never even defended itself. We took the snake back to our parents and the kids that killed it came up with the wildest stories of how this snake struck at them and was so nasty tempered. It was not long after that my dad bought me a field guide and we discovered that the snake was a Black Rattler.

To me it is real funny to see a full grown man turn into a scared little boy at the sight of a snake, or a smart man lose a 100 points of IQ. The tales and lies I have heard about snakes, mind boggling! I really dont know what to say to get those that kill them to stop, a lot of folks enjoy killing. Besides I a not the enviromentalist type, I just want my kids and there kids to see and enjoy what I saw and enjoyed. If you think about it it is pretty rude, you are going into there home and killing them! Because of actions like this our wild places are no longer wild. We have managed to wipe out nearly every predator in the US. It shows, populations of deer, pig, rats, mice and many other prey animals really apreciate it.

However, it is 2006 and there are a lot of people at my age and youger that like wildlife and wild places and we all agree that those who enjoy killing predators such as snakes are just scared, uneducated and without conscience. So the next time your out in gods country and you see that rare rattler, instead of pulling the trigger, be a man and walk on by. Hell do it for me and mine, we would love to see it.

I know this is not a good way to start posting here and 99 out of 100 times I will keep quite. But, I just returned from a camping trip where I found 12 cottonmouths shot to death in a protected area. It kinda upset me cause cottonmouths are so not agressive. A lot of cottonmouths will flee, some will sit there and open there mouth. You may think this is agressive but you could stick your boot in there open mouth and they would just open wider. It is all a bluff to help them survive, I think it is backfiring and all the poor harmless water snakes that die because someone thinks it is a cottonmouth.

Anyway, if anyone has questions about snakes, I can and will answer. And I will say this because there is a lot of BS about coral snakes, they are found only in the Carolinas, GA, FL, MS, AL, LO, AR, TX and Arizona. They are extreamly rare in all but two states FL and TX. However Texas is a big state and they are only common in the coastal area from Houston to Brownsville and west to San Ant. I live in SC now and have for 20 years. I still have not seen a coral snake in SC and only one in my life, outside Houston. The vine snake that I saw mentioned has indeed been seen in S. Texas as well as Arizona and they are venomous. But they are rear fanged and there venom is used to quite a struggling lizard, it is not even strong enough to kill a lizard. A fire ant bite would be much more severe.

Good post Damzi. I really enjoy hunting, but I do NOT enjoy the killing part of it. I will kill, but only if I eat it, or absolutely necessary. I believe you are correct in that some people actually enjoy killing. :P Around the house is one thing, but to kill snakes way out in the woods, must be just the love of killing something.
The only part I disagree with is Cottonmouths. They can get aggressive.

Scubaseeker, thats a BAD Diamondback.

 

[damz68]

Does anyone know what kind of snke this is? It is in the SC lowcountry. Whoever gets it right wins an add a boy.

 

[deepsix47]

Deep6: Ever go back?

Yes we did, several times (the first to recover my friends day pack....lol). The cave wanders back into the cliff face a ways. There are three small caverns connected by tunnels that you have to crawl through. There is a tunnel that we didn't go into because it was to tight and the debris kinda said that the rock was unstable. Outside of a few relics we had found there was nothing interesting enough to make me want take the chance. Oh, only saw 1 more snake and it was in the first room.

 

[ScubaFinder]

Damz, looks like a Rat Snake to me, but I dunno. He's very well fed, whatever he is

Jason

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Does anyone know what kind of snake this is? It is in the SC lowcountry. Whoever gets it right wins an add a boy.

Looks like a Moccasin to me. What do I win?
He looks like hes been eating fish and frogs.

 

[damz68]

Is a moccasin venomous?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Is a moccasin venomous?

I guess you call it a "Cottonmouth"...same thing. I cannot see the head, but Cottonmouth Moccasins come in a variety of colors and patterns. This looks like one to me.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Does anyone know what kind of snke this is? It is in the SC lowcountry. Whoever gets it right wins an add a boy.

So, am I right? Any more guesses? Brown Water Snake? If I seen this snake, I would not touch it! :P

 

[damz68]

No, its a Banded Watersnake (Nerodia fasciata). This snake is not venomous. The reason it is looking overweight is because it is a gravid female. They will bite if you are quick enough to catch it. I have caught a few that never bit. Most calm real quick. If you grab them by the tail, they will twist in circles until you let go our there tail breaks off, and it will not grow back like a lizards. Other than that they will poo all over you and it smells pretty rough.

If you ever find a snake that you think is a cottonmouth, if it has any red or orange on it anywhere it is a harmless watersnake. There are no bright colors on a cottonmouth EXCEPT the babies. Baby cottonmouths have a bright lime green tail. they use this tail like a lure to catch prey. The only other snake in the US that has this lure is the copperhead. Copperheads and Cottonmouths come from the same family, Agkistrodon.

Here is a cottonmouth.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ive seen literally thousands of Cottonmouths. Yes, they are very dull colored. Your banded water snake pic looks dull and very similar to some Cottonmouths. They are also often fat. The older ones darker, almost black. The head would be different if we could see it. The mouth inside would be white. If you are not absolutely sure of ID, dont touch it!

 

[deepsix47]

Is a moccasin venomous?

Yes, but it tends to be pretty weak as snake poisons go. The major problem with a Moccasin bite is the infection.

 

[damz68]

Ya, I was just being silly. I know when someone says moccasin they mean the venomous cottonmouth. However, not many people can tell the differance between a harmless watersnake and the venomous cottonmouth. Most people will call any snake they see in the water a water moccacin. So it kinda confuses me on which one that people will think is venomous, I think the majority think they are all venomous.

Also, the copperhead and cottonmouth have almost identicle venoms, being that it takes the same amout of mg of venom to kill an adult. The adult cottonmouth is a much bigger snake and can inject almost twice the amount of a adult copperhead. That makes the cottonmouth more dangerous. Like I said in a previous post the cottonmouth is mostly bluff in behavior and very few people are bitten. The majority of those bit are like myself and get bit while capturing. I have caught between 700/800 cottonmouths and have never been bitten. The copperhead is much more quick to bite but injects a very small amout of venom and causes very few deaths. In SC only one death from a copperhead recorded as far as they have kept records. Also in SC the copperhead makes up 90% of all venomous snake bites.

What you say about infection in venomous snake bite is true to a degree. A venomous snake bite does not have any infectious properties. The infection is caused by the damage done. The venom basically kills the living tissue and when this happens infection can set in. Most infection happens after a doctor relieves a badly swollen area by cutting the tissue.

Bigcypress, you are absolutly right. If you are not sure what it is you should leave it alone. The only point I was trying to make is that people think every snake they see around water is a venomous "moccasin". This happens in areas where the cottonmouth has never even been found. Like where I live in upstate SC, there are no cottonmouths but many harmless midland watersnakes are killed because people think they are venomous.It is kinda like sending a man to the electric chair for a crime he did not commit, not that a cottonmouth ever commited a crime! Unless defending your self is a crime.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=damz68Ya, many harmless midland watersnakes are killed because people think they are venomous.It is kinda like sending a man to the electric chair for a crime he did not commit, not that a cottonmouth ever commited a crime! Unless defending your self is a crime.
*************

Very well stated my friend. The same applies to Cats, dogs, horses, birds, etc etc. they all have killed people, and in larger amounts so ----------RIP all?

What many do not understand is that one rattlesnake eats enough ol the plant eating rodents and rabbits to sustain a couple of cows a year. They also play a vital role in eliminating deseased rodents which cause more deaths per year than all of the poisonous snakes combined.

Leave them alone out in the bush.

Tropical Tramp

 

[damz68]

Well said on your part too.

After I make a post, I alway re-read them and I kinda sound like I am preaching. I dont want to be the annoying preacher telling people what to do. Telling people what they are doing is not right is not the kind of person I am. I understand well that people are brought up differantly and I could have easily turned out to be one of those that likes to kill snakes. I hope you all think of this as teaching and not preaching. It aint like I am important, just a nerdy redneck.

Bigcyress, on the post where you said the banded watersnke looked colorless and drab, it does. But if you look close at the scales next to the belly you will see some red. There is no red on a cottonmouth. There are a couple of watersnakes that have no red/orange. In Florida, Carolinas, Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia the Brown and Green watersnakes have no bright colors on back or belly. These two snakes get very large and have a rectangular head. If you are close enough look at the eyes. A cttonmouth has elipticle pupils, sometimes the stripe on the face appears to go right through the eye. Also, there is a huge scale above the eye, this scale kinda gives the snake a mean apearance. On the nonvenomous watersnakes the pupil is round and the eyes kinda look bugged out with no scale above them.

Here is a nonvenomous Brown Watersnake. Like all the other watersnakes the bite is totally harmless. The brown watersnake will bite but only half of the many I have caught have even attempted to bite.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Damzi, very good post and no offense taken. I may catch Red Rat Snakes, Scarlet Kings, or any of the harmless snakes we have in South Florida. I have no interest in catching Cottonmouths. I try to avoid them while hunting the Everglades, we have so many. I just dont like them.

I understand the point you are making. One of my Scarlet Kings got out of the cage and into the hallway of an apt. building I was living in at the time. Before I could retrieve it, a neighbor killed it and was bragging to everyone how he killed a Coral Snake. What an idiot! It was such a beautiful harmless snake.

 

[damz68]

Here is another cottonmouth showing large scale above eye as well as eye stripe. One other thing to note is the shape of body. Watersnakes are round in shape through midsection. Cottonmouths are triangular in midsection with a well defined backbone and majority of meat at the belly.

 

[damz68]

I hate to hear your pet got killed. You have to have a pretty good tank to keep a snake in, they can get out of places you would have never imagined.

I am not condoning for anyone to go out and catch snakes. Most people think snakes are really nasty and love to bite. That is just not the case. Matter of fact most snakes never bite. Take the rare Indigo snake for example. The Indigo is the largest snake in the US reaching 9'+ and they never bite. I dare anyone to pick up a cute wild rabbit, chipmunk or squirll. So I am really just giving examples of how non-nasty they truly are.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I raised the Scarlet from a 2" baby. A kid says to me "look at the pretty worm I found!" I knew it wasnt a worm, and gave the kid two bucks for the styrofoam cup with the "pretty worm." I fed the baby snake a baby lizard and he grew to full grown size. He was tame and harmless. One of the most beautiful snakes in the world. The guy that killed it didnt know any better. Not my pic, but a good example:

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Red touch black, good for Jack,
Red touch yellow, kill the fellow.

An old poem.

The red on this snake is clearly touching black and nowhere does red touch yellow ,like the poisoness Coral Snake. The Coral also has a black head, where the Scarlet has a red nose.
I also had an Everglades Scarlet, which is similar.