Powder Horn 1872 primitive scrimshaw; real or fake? what does it mean?

[HistoryTeacher]

Dear T-neters,
I got this from my family for research a little bit back. I think that they thought that a history teacher would figure it out. I have googled so much that ads for antique powder horns show up in my gmail. I took this R-rated horn to an antique gun and militaria show. Three people offered me $100.00 for it. Its not for sale; I don't own it. All they could tell me was that it looked to be a real animal horn, that 1872 was really too late for making and using a powder horn, and did I know that there were naked girls on there?

What I know: it was in my Grandfather's house. He worked for the Frisco RR from the 1930's to the 1980's. We remember it being in the house at least since the early 1970's. Because he worked for the RR he traveled alot.

The text seems to read "ARBLLPALFERD MARCH THE 11 1872" There is also a diamond (in the dark area) that says "1R7" or "L?1".

It is about 9" long. The large end is about 2"-2.5" across.

There appears to be several figures include people and some mutant birds?

I'd given up on solving it until I saw someone post a picture that I thought was unsolvable. It was solved in 48 hours. Any thoughts?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[HistoryTeacher]

Here are some more photos. This is probably severe wishful thinking but could IR7 be a reference to the 7th Cavalry Regiment? Maybe company and regiment? That doesn't seem a typical way of putting it.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Cry Of The Eagle: History And Legends Of The Cherokee Indians And Their Buried Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[DCMatt]

The serifs are the same on all the other letters and numbers but different on the '7' in the diamond. I'm not convinced it is a 7.

 

[DCMatt]

On second look, the serifs are all over the place. Not as consistent as I first thought... Could be a 7.

But I'm still not seeing anything that says "Cavalry" to my eye.

I would expect to see the crossed swords. Even someone with this guy's limited artistic ability could draw crossed swords.

Possibly owned and carved by an Indian? That would help explain the muzzleloader and could make the long string of letters into Indian dialect.

That also might make it more interesting for grandpa to bring it home - wild Indian artifact.

But, as usual, I'm just guessing...

 

[HistoryTeacher]

On second look, the serifs are all over the place. Not as consistent as I first thought... Could be a 7.

But I'm still not seeing anything that says "Cavalry" to my eye.

I would expect to see the crossed swords. Even someone with this guy's limited artistic ability could draw crossed swords.

Possibly owned and carved by an Indian? That would help explain the muzzleloader and could make the long string of letters into Indian dialect.

That also might make it more interesting for grandpa to bring it home - wild Indian artifact.

But, as usual, I'm just guessing...

You've got me convinced...I don't know what is engraved in that diamond. Your comment on the artist's "limited artistic ability" was too generous and made me laugh.

In kinda sounds like something my grandfather would be talked into buying as an "authentic Indian horn." A farmer once convinced him to take a giant load of his chicken manure and spread it on his lawn to green it up. The entire neighborhood stank all summer. There were so many flies that the family couldn't go outside. The grass was green, though. Why none of us ever asked him about the horn beats me.

 

[releventchair]

March 11th 1872. Or March 17th. ( St Patrick's day!)

A maker who built them regular could number them. And/ or add their personal car touche.
A horn could trade owners ,by good or bad means.

Roached hair was common at one time.
Girls/ ladies with crossed legs might be dancing.

A wild guess is that the scrimshaw was owner made. Far removed from professional ,but many times more personal , and to it's owner a unique and valuable record , as well as a important appliance.

Scrimshaw was not uncommon on ships at sea ,or war time.
Dates on an owners horn were usually personal ,but at least involved.

Not sure why I get a more south sea vibe than American one.

And yet more rambling....
Ear treatment/ type show 3 (?) Different representations. Odd(?) For a single artist.

The two fowl with heads in a trap(?) ( basket looking square) might have the archer approaching them?

The horns spout appears well stained from skin oil and powder residue. Unless stained that way when built.

 

[Itsmine]

Looks to me like an American Bison powder horn. If the date is right and he worked for the RR.,he may have picked it up out west. It was well known that the railroads were hiring hunters to keep the Bison off the tracks. Here's some samples that look really similar to yours. The scrimshaw may have been from hunter doodling on his horn.....lol https://www.google.com/search?q=AME...sAQILQ&biw=1016&bih=625#imgrc=kNA2LHDMUKmHmM:

 

[HistoryTeacher]

Thanks for everyone's help and input on this odd piece. You all saw some things I didn't and will help guide my research further. To sum up so far, there seems to be consensus that: there is nothing to indicate it is not authentic, and it is a powder horn. That being said, I think I may need to find someone that specializes in items from the post Civil War west. I really hope I can put a story to this horn, but the artist didn't give us much in the way of clues, and I use the term "artist" loosely.

Thanks again for everyone's input. I've enjoyed my short time so far in this community. There are a lot of helpful geniuses out there. Of course, I welcome any more ideas or avenues of research you might suggest.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Arbell was a somewhat common first name back then, possibly just spelled wrong here

 

[GopherDaGold]

Osage Indians had a very similar headdress style depicted on your horn. Men and women had tattooed chest areas. The tribe was moved to a reservation in Oklahoma in 1872.

 

[A2coins]

That is freakin sweet

 

[unclemac]

i like it being native american. although they had ample access to modern fire arms by 1872, they also had plenty of black powder too arms too. the imagery is very similar to native style ledger book drawings of the era.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ame...7OjVAhVT0WMKHREPAgwQ_AUICigB&biw=1034&bih=526

 

[trdking]

You've got me convinced...I don't know what is engraved in that diamond. Your comment on the artist's "limited artistic ability" was too generous and made me laugh.

In kinda sounds like something my grandfather would be talked into buying as an "authentic Indian horn." A farmer once convinced him to take a giant load of his chicken manure and spread it on his lawn to green it up. The entire neighborhood stank all summer. There were so many flies that the family couldn't go outside. The grass was green, though. Why none of us ever asked him about the horn beats me.

All of the farmers I know can't even smell chicken doo. TO them it is just what they smell everyday. Chicken doo = Green grass. I try it!

 

[HuntinDog]

Make sure that DOO is well aged.
Freash DOO is to hot and will burn your lawn and you will need to paint it green.

 

[HistoryTeacher]

i like it being native american. although they had ample access to modern fire arms by 1872, they also had plenty of black powder too arms too. the imagery is very similar to native style ledger book drawings of the era.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Ame...7OjVAhVT0WMKHREPAgwQ_AUICigB&biw=1034&bih=526

I hadn't see those ledger books before. This is a good lead.

 

[nagant]

I like south pacific too. Guy with whiskers looks like he is tied up. New guinea?

 

[HistoryTeacher]

Update on old post about my powder horn: possible link to Osage. It looks like GopherDaGold was right.

Osage Indians had a very similar headdress style depicted on your horn. Men and women had tattooed chest areas. The tribe was moved to a reservation in Oklahoma in 1872.

TLDR: Do you think the style of this Osage powder horn matches the style of my original posting?

I have been researching this on an off over the years since I first posted here. I have contacted Universities and the Osage nation. They were all helpful as could be, but were unable to provide me with more than I already knew. With no new leads, I put this topic on the back burner.

I just came back from a family reunion in Springfield, Missouri. Saw a lot of historical sights and "Osage" kept coming up. Now there is a movie about to come out about the Osage murders. That got me thinking about the Powder Horn I posted about years ago.

I have also learned that 1872 was an important year for the Osage as they signed the Drum Creek Treaty in 1870, forcing them to sell their lands in Kansas and buy new lands in Oklahoma. They mostly moved in 1871 and established new settlements by 1872.

I am not sure how I missed this auction information, but the style of artistry in this horn from an auction in 2015 seems a stylistic match for my powder horn. The listing has no provenance proving it is Osage. What do you all think? Is this similar to mine? This would be my best link to the Osage Nation.

https://www.icollector.com/Osage-Scrimshaw-Powder-Horn_i22702806

 

[unclemac]

how about those holes around the rim?.... what purpose?

 

[HistoryTeacher]

how about those holes around the rim?.... what purpose?

Holes for the pins holding on the end cap.

 

[CRUSADER]

I can't add anything other than its a very cool & original piece!

 

[BAW]

A few thoughts for you to consider or ignore -
1872 is none too late for a date on a powder horn. I own original examples with later dates. Muzzleloading rifles made to order were listed in the Great Western Gun Works catalog of 1889, and newly made muzzleloading shotguns were still being offered in the Sears and Roebuck catalog for 1902.
To my mind, the most interesting (and mysterious) feature of this horn is that the date and the decoration do not seem to match. The decoration resembles known 18th century work and without the 1872 date could easily be assigned a date of 1772.
I have seen several 18th and 19th century powder horns that have more than one name and date engraved on them, showing that they were used by different people, sometimes many years apart. It is possible that this horn is of the 18th century, with the name (?) and date added by someone else later.
The value is considerably less than it would have been if the base plug was still intact; still, the people who offered $100 for it should be arrested for attempted robbery.