Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

[slipscomb]

Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

I stumbled upon this place this past summer (2010) while exploring an area west of Tulsa, Oklahoma approximately 3 miles southeast of Sand Springs on the south side of the Arkansas River.

It was located on a creek runoff that spilled into the Arkansas River and went high into the cliffs above the river. I on the other hand found this run by hiking on the upper end of this runoff and after a little cutting with a hand saw, was able to reach the area by Jeep. When I first arrived under the shelf I immediately noticed cavings and the familiar "black soot" on the walls indicating there was a fire there long ago. I had already heard of tales of the James Gang hideout nearby that was buldozed under to make way for a Highway back in the 1950's. In fact, my quest was to entertain the fact that there was stll gold hidden up in the cliffs from Bank Robberies in the area that the locals had told me during the years I attended College in Tulsa during the 1990's.

Upon searching the surrounding area I soon noticed a strange rock at my feet lying in the creek bed. It had an elongated shape as if to indicate a direction at one time. It had the initials "RD" carved into it as well as an oddly shaped symbol down and to the right of the initials.

This rock is what I am most curious about. I have thouroughly photographed the location of the "Initialed Rock" and the surrounding area before removing it and bringing it home to Virginia.

Sean

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[slipscomb]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

My research turned up this bit of information....

"The Dalton brothers were now professional outlaws. Between May 1891 and July 1892 they robbed four trains in Indian Territory. On May 9, 1891, the men held up a Santa Fe train at Wharton (now Perry). They only got away with several hundred dollars, but they had worked well as a team. As they passed Orlando, they stole eight or nine horses. A posse soon took out after them, but the gang escaped.
Four months later the Dalton gang robbed a train of $10,000 at Lillietta in Indian Territory. In June 1892, they stopped another Santa Fe train, this time at Red Rock. Blackfaced Charley Bryant and Dick Broadwell held the engineer and fireman in the locomotive. Bob and Emmett Dalton and Bill Powers walked through the passenger cars, robbing the passengers as they went. Bill Doolin and Grat Dalton took on the express car. They threw the safe out of the train. Then with loot in hand, the robbers whooped and rode away. They gained little for their efforts--a few hundred dollars and some watches and jewelry from the passengers. The gang scattered after the Red Rock robbery, but it wasn't long until Blackfaced Charley was caught and killed in an escape attempt.
The gang struck again in July at Adair near the Arkansas border. They went directly to the train station and took what they could find in the express and baggage rooms. Then they calmly sat down on a bench on the platform, talking and smoking, with their Winchester rifles across their knees. When the train came in at 9:45 p.m., they backed a wagon up to the express car and unloaded all the contents. There was a large armed guard on the train, but for some reason all 11 men were at the back of the train. The guards fired at the bandits through the car windows and from behind the train. In the gun fight, 200 shots were fired. None of the Dalton gang was hit. Three guards were wounded and a town doctor was killed by a stray bullet. The robbers dropped out of sight, probably hiding out in one of several caves near Tulsa, Oklahoma."

I have also read that the symbol carved in the lower right of the rock might have refered to the "Knights of the Golden Circle" which Robert Dalton was rumoured to have been a member of.

Sean

 

[tink]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

I'm not getting on you but I'm not sure removing the rock was really the right thing to do. Please forgive me if I see it differently,maybe people collect this kinda thing all the time. Just seems like others could also enjoy the mystery of it just like you did when discovering it on your journey. If it is a piece of history it will be lost, out of it's place from where it might of meant something. Just my feelings and not meaning to sound harsh, just maybe something in your excitement you didn't think of perhaps.

 

[slipscomb]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

I'm not getting on you but I'm not sure removing the rock was really the right thing to do. Please forgive me if I see it differently,maybe people collect this kinda thing all the time. Just seems like others could also enjoy the mystery of it just like you did when discovering it on your journey. If it is a piece of history it will be lost, out of it's place from where it might of meant something. Just my feelings and not meaning to sound harsh, just maybe something in your excitement you didn't think of perhaps.

On the contrary. The importance of this rock remaining in its original location would have made it a great icon for a bygone era however, the entire area is being bulldozed and raped of its historical significance! Just a mile away, the Jesse James Hideout has already been destroyed to make way for transportation requirements. A few hundred yards away from this site has already been clear cut, bulldozed and manicured for cell phone towers and the current Landowner has been trying to develope the property for either a housing addition or begin blasting for a rock quarry. I only removed the rock in order to research it further and in the event it is from a Dalton Hideout (the Hideout will surely not be there fo much longer) it will be a part of History preserved.

Sean

 

[tink]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

Thanks for the reply Sean-looks like you knew what you were doing I'm glad you got it then! It's sad others won't get to enjoy that sight in the future too.Enjoy your find and I eat my words

 

[Deftone]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

I'm sorry I just don't see a Dalton doing such a thing. Cool find anyway's.

 

[slipscomb]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

I'm sorry I just don't see a Dalton doing such a thing. Cool find anyway's.

Doing what? Marking a cache with a rock or working for the Knights of the Golden Circle? Or having a Hideout?

Sean

 

[chkn]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

You oughtta get Old Dog to look at this in Signs and Symbols, might as well try to find the loot before the dozers come.

 

[trixie charger]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

Ok first of all, I think it's cool! yes. Now, if it were part of the Dalton gang or any gang's hide out they are either Stupid or Suicidal!!!.
Think about it, they had multiple posse's and sheriffs and pinkertons chasing them!. Why would anyone mark their hideout with their initials and symbols on the off chance that someone finds it and sets up an ambush. If they ran with Jesse RIP, he would have taught them how to escape and hide without being caught.

 

[oldcoon]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

From the pictures, the site looks like a good place to find Native American artifacts. Probably a few latter year curios as well from campers who used the natural shelter.

Buried loot? Well proceed with caution. I have real problems with the loot portion of these tales. Buried loot, buried gold. Why bury it? Didn't they divide the proceeds and go forth and spend it? What were they robbing for? A rainy day? They must have had good paying jobs on the side. Every robber caught around here has always spent all or some of the loot till caught. I've never heard of any doing any midnight work with pick and shovel.

 

[slipscomb]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

It is well documented that robbers hid loot for whatever reasons (lighten the load while evading capture, store items stolen until attention in lessened on the robbery, ect). The rock would have indicated a hiding place of the loot, not the Hideout itself. The Hideou was just that....hidden however, loot was further hidden in the event unsuspecting wanderers stumbed upon a hideout.

Now the robbery in question is well documented to have occurred in Adair, Oklahoma (about 30 miles east of the Hideout location) on July 14, 1892 in wic several of the members were injured and that they were followed west near the location of the hideout. The locations of the Hideouts were not known then and later only rumoured to exist. All members of the Gang except Emmett Dalton, were killed in their very next robbery in which they tried to rob two Banks at once in Coffeyville, Kansas. I have no doubt that the loot has long since been removed since Emmett was Pardoned by the Governor 15 years later and resumed a normal life, even writing a book When the Daltons Ride, 1937 about his illustrious career as a criminal and Lawman.

My intention here is not to invoke that I have found any long lost treasure of a Gang of Outlaws but to point out that the possibilities of the Historical significance of this location is interestingly important and in danger of being completely removed. The rock in question is the only rock that displayed recognizeable initials and a symbol and strikingly resembled a "Treasure Rock" identifying a hidden location.

Sean

 

[Monty]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

I live and grew up couple of miles from the area you are talking about. For years the kids, including me, went into that area to a nearby swimming hole and skinny dipped and went hiking and hunting. Several of us carved our initials into the rocks around that area and I don't think it is all that old. However, the area just East of Chandler Park was known as "Lost City" and it was rumored it was once a hideout of sorts. I also heard a story about someone finding an old stage coach that was smased down into a crevice and it supposidly held some gold. But me and a thousand other kids ran those hills for a long time and never found anything remotely resembeling treasure. I think it is all made up rumors. But that is just my personal opinion and an educated guess. Monty

 

[slipscomb]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

I live and grew up couple of miles from the area you are talking about. For years the kids, including me, went into that area to a nearby swimming hole and skinny dipped and went hiking and hunting. Several of us carved our initials into the rocks around that area and I don't think it is all that old. However, the area just East of Chandler Park was known as "Lost City" and it was rumored it was once a hideout of sorts. I also heard a story about someone finding an old stage coach that was smased down into a crevice and it supposidly held some gold. But me and a thousand other kids ran those hills for a long time and never found anything remotely resembeling treasure. I think it is all made up rumors. But that is just my personal opinion and an educated guess. Monty

I agree with you Monty that the area has definitely been picked over not to mention relatives as well as Emmett Dalton himself has no doubt recovered any items left in the area. Some locals have said that some gold was recovered from the area in the 1980's as it was on the local news channel in Tulsa however, nothing since has surfaced or at least no one has claimed to have found anything. I did find a complete old Jeep at the base of a cliff in the Lost City area that was probably stolen and dumped out there many years ago but have seen nothing to indicate treasure still being in the area. I simply believe the rock to be very old. The initials and symbol look to be carved into the rock I have more than 50 years ago and I believe them to be 100 years ago.
Sean

 

[Monty]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

Unti about 40 years ago there wasn't any way to get to most of that area except by foot. There is an old sanitary land fill just west of the Lost City area. The landfill was once a rock quarry and had a cement block plant back in the 1940s and 1950s. The only access was a narrow gravel and dirt road running from what is known as Prattville to the old DX refinery and then onto 21st Street in Tulsa. The quarry was on top of the hill near Berryhill and there was a a crushing machine on top of the hill and a gravity fed chute across the road toward the river at the bottom where the trucks loaded gravel. The only thing left is the huge cement gravel bin at the bottom of the hill next to the Burlington RR tracks. There was no other access to the area to the west until Chandler park was built in about 1960. Then there was an old road from what is now "River Road" going up the hill to the west end of the park. That road was closed off in the late 1970s. All this time we kids use to run those hills by foot. There was several foot paths going through that area but no roads until they opened West 41 st Street that was on the south end of the tract and was once known as Hopkins Road or Roller Coaster road. That area is now developed with several homes and a Jr. College and National Guard and Reserve Center. I noticed several roads carved into the tract from 41st street. About 5 years ago I took my ATV and explored some of the area and found the old swimming hole and noticed several other two wheel cowpath type roads going back deeper into the woods. Local teenagers use to go off roading in that area with Jeeps and 4w drive vehicles. The land was once owned by the Sand Springs home who was forced by the IRS to sell off their holdings in the 1980s. So now it is private property. One of the new owners has tried to get zoning to open it up to a gravel quarry but the local Board of Adjustment will not approve it mainly because of the abuting land owners protests and the projected wear and tear on the roads and the heavy traffic it would cause, as well as the blasting. The new owner(s) have pretty much ruined the historical appeal of the land or so I am told by grading and destroying some of the bluffs and natural settings. This place was a part of my life growing up in the area and I have lived here since a child in 1949. Monty

 

[slipscomb]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

Unti about 40 years ago there wasn't any way to get to most of that area except by foot. There is an old sanitary land fill just west of the Lost City area. The landfill was once a rock quarry and had a cement block plant back in the 1940s and 1950s. The only access was a narrow gravel and dirt road running from what is known as Prattville to the old DX refinery and then onto 21st Street in Tulsa. The quarry was on top of the hill near Berryhill and there was a a crushing machine on top of the hill and a gravity fed chute across the road toward the river at the bottom where the trucks loaded gravel. The only thing left is the huge cement gravel bin at the bottom of the hill next to the Burlington RR tracks. There was no other access to the area to the west until Chandler park was built in about 1960. Then there was an old road from what is now "River Road" going up the hill to the west end of the park. That road was closed off in the late 1970s. All this time we kids use to run those hills by foot. There was several foot paths going through that area but no roads until they opened West 41 st Street that was on the south end of the tract and was once known as Hopkins Road or Roller Coaster road. That area is now developed with several homes and a Jr. College and National Guard and Reserve Center. I noticed several roads carved into the tract from 41st street. About 5 years ago I took my ATV and explored some of the area and found the old swimming hole and noticed several other two wheel cowpath type roads going back deeper into the woods. Local teenagers use to go off roading in that area with Jeeps and 4w drive vehicles. The land was once owned by the Sand Springs home who was forced by the IRS to sell off their holdings in the 1980s. So now it is private property. One of the new owners has tried to get zoning to open it up to a gravel quarry but the local Board of Adjustment will not approve it mainly because of the abuting land owners protests and the projected wear and tear on the roads and the heavy traffic it would cause, as well as the blasting. The new owner(s) have pretty much ruined the historical appeal of the land or so I am told by grading and destroying some of the bluffs and natural settings. This place was a part of my life growing up in the area and I have lived here since a child in 1949. Monty

Great background info Monty! I was shown this property by some very good friends of mine from the Sand Springs and Prattville area as I was there attending College in Tulsa but originally from here in Virginia. I hear many locals grew up exploring that area and that the Outlaws were more of a secondary interest as it is truly a vey unique area with the cliffs, old mining structures and ponds located throughout the property. It is truly an adventure to explore! I myself have spent many nights campng on one of the ponds near Prattville (just off of the powerlines) and in fact, when the house I was renting in Jenks burned down I packed up my Jeep and lived "on the Hill" as it was popularly known as for over two months! Sleeping n a tent or my Jeep after removing the passenger seat for room to stretch out and showering at the public bath house off of Hiway 51 at the State Park on Lake Keystone. It was a rough time but I stayed in school and Graduated in 1997. I always look forward to visiting Oklahoma and visiting the cliffs at Chandler Park (and beyond) again!

 

[Monty]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

It sounds like you were at the main swimming hole that everyone went to. It is on top of the hill just east of the power lines. Me and two of my buddies went up there to to go skinny dipping as we all did when I was about 14 and we walked up on 4 girls skinny dipping. They didn't see us, but we got quite an education about the female anatomy while peeking through the weeds at them. Two of the girls in particular were older than us and considered some of the more well endowed girls in school. One of my buddies swooned too loud and the girls ran off into the brush screaming and giggling. They never did see who we were and every time I spoke to one of them in school I know I was blushing from head to toe! But anyway, the power line wasn't there when I was a kid, just a little foot path leading up from the creek. There is an old house foundation just south of the pond and I only recently found out that one of my high school classmates lived there in the late 1940s. I plan to go back up there and detect around the old house if I ever get my back healed up enough. My classmate wants to go with me and that should prove interesting depending on what we find. Monty

 

[slipscomb]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

Thats really interesing! I never knew there was a house foundation to the south. I have hiked much of the area in search of sites like that just cant claim to have found verything by any means! That does give me something to look forward to next time I come through. Perhaps I can look you up when I visit again? Its funny, now the pond is one of the least traveled paths as far as Jeeps are concerned. Thats why I love to camp there....less traffic! I have alot of pics of the mining structure and in fact wrote an article on "Tulsa Offroad.com" website about the mining that took place there in the past. There are remnants of the chute that existed at the top of the cliff above the tracks and like you said, the loading platform is still in place.

Sean

 

[Monty]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

That's the old gravel loading structure I wrote about. Everyone around here use to go down there and put targets up against that wall to target practice. About 15 years ago the railroad closed off the old road that went down to it. I heard some fool was shooting while the train was close by and it got the Railroad folks PO'd. That drivable trail up to the old pond wasn't there until they built the power lines. It use to be just a footpath and was so for years. The people who lived in the old house got their water from that pond. I think there must be a spring there as the pond was always full even on the driest summers and it really has no drainage to collect water. At one time there was a wooden pier built out over the water from the west bank but it rotted and fell in years ago. Sure, look me up if you come back this way. Monty

 

[Ramitt]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

This is a great thread, thanks Monty and slipscomb for sharing this with me.

 

[minetres]

Re: Possible Dalton Hideout "Treasure Rock"!

That rock was in the shape of a finger pointing to a direction and the rock in the front supporting it confirmed it was very important to go in this direction.

Minetres