Placing a value on the French monument removed by the Spanish and lost at Sea.

[enrada]

Wonder what the bottom is like on this site? Would an anchor drag through the site on a windy day! Possible THer's boat convention on the site in the future. Would the piece of the monument get caught in an anchor?

 

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[ARC]

Here are my EDITED quotes from the other thread concerning this awarding of the wreck to France...

"Lame... and I hope a hurricane washes it out to sea. "

"Other than reading about items that will be found out of pure interest of historical shipwreck finds...
I will advocate that no one ever spend one red cent to view anything salvaged... here or anywhere from that wreck.

And hope others will follow and do the same.

" I hope anyone who reads this will boycott ANY and ALL museums that "feature" finds found by someone else and have been taken by any other entity without compensations.
And I hope those who can see this will pass these words on to anyone who will listen as to open peoples eyes to the truth about the museum money making game derived from theft and credit plagiarism of a discoverers hard work, perseverance, risks and financial investments. "

"It makes me sick to think that the fruits of honest hard work will be eaten by all those EXCEPT those who found it. "

 

[huntsman53]

Read the judgement. There is no reasonable logic that avoids the conclusion it is La Trinite.

I would if you can provide a link to the Judgement. I have searched and searched but other than the previous rulings, I can find nothing other than news and info postings.

 

[AllAtSea]

I would if you can provide a link to the Judgement. I have searched and searched but other than the previous rulings, I can find nothing other than news and info postings.

If you sign up with PacerMonitor, you can search for and download case documents. There are modest charges to pay, either a subscription plus page rate, or a flat fee per document.

 

[Salvor6]

Huntsman you can view the court document for free here: https://www.scribd.com/document/372...60149026&source=hp_affiliate&medium=affiliate

 

[AllAtSea]

Huntsman you can view the court document for free here: https://www.scribd.com/document/372...60149026&source=hp_affiliate&medium=affiliate

No, that is the State of Florida's motion from February. This motion was terminated without decision when the case was closed, so is moot (though it might indicate likely Florida State arguments should similar cases come up in the future).

To the best of my knowledge, the judgement is not available for free download. I paid, because I wanted to understand the detailed basis for the outcome.

 

[huntsman53]

No, that is the State of Florida's motion from February. This motion was terminated without decision when the case was closed, so is moot (though it might indicate likely Florida State arguments should similar cases come up in the future).

To the best of my knowledge, the judgement is not available for free download. I paid, because I wanted to understand the detailed basis for the outcome.

Edited:
The Court Judgement if not ordered kept private or sealed, should be available for free to the Media and the Public per the "Freedom of Information Act" or the appropriate "Public Information Act".

 

[AllAtSea]

The Court Judgement if not ordered kept private or sealed, should be available for free to the Media and the Public per the "Public Information Act".

The only place I could find to download the judgement was PacerMonitor.

 

[AllAtSea]

The story of the monument does not make sense. The spanish took it down to send it back to France? proof? My guess is that it was probably taken down during the quasi war 1798 1800 and dumped at sea as a gesture of ill feelings and bally-hoo of the french at the time, probably by some local ship captain. Why would anyone go to the trouble of "packing up a monument just to send it back to France"? Just a plain column with a coat of arms. Why not just dig a hole and push it over into it? or take a chisel to it and reuse the stone?

Value? Maybe some historical value/significance to the city that had it in the first place. It probably wouldn't take much for recovery, couple of well placed air bags.
was it found in wreckage or just by itself.

It makes good sense for a French territorial marker to be on board a French royal ship on a colonial mission. It is a shipwreck. There are French bronze cannon of mid-16th century date at the same location and in clear association. A plethora of evidence suggests the wreck is, almost certainly, La Trinite, Ribault's flagship of 1565.

 

[huntsman53]

It makes good sense for a French territorial marker to be on board a French royal ship on a colonial mission. It is a shipwreck. There are French bronze cannon of mid-16th century date at the same location and in clear association. A plethora of evidence suggests the wreck is, almost certainly, La Trinite, Ribault's flagship of 1565.

Based on the many theories, stories, some historical information and the fact that the Cannons found are not of the type that would be found on Ribault's Flagship (i.e. they are apparently of the type used in Seacoast fortifications), the La Trinité, it makes more sense that the Monument and the Cannons were captured when the Spanish conquered the French at Fort Caroline, loaded them onto a Spanish Galleon for transport to Spain but then the Galleon and it's cargo were lost either in a Hurricane or battle with a French Naval Vessel.

 

[AllAtSea]

Based on the many theories, stories, some historical information and the fact that the Cannons found are not of the type that would be found on Ribault's Flagship, the La Trinité, it makes more sense that the Monument and the Cannons were captured when the Spanish conquered the French at Fort Caroline, loaded them onto a Spanish Galleon for transport to Spain but then the Galleon and it's cargo were lost either in a Hurricane or battle with a French Naval Vessel.

The cannon are of the right type. There is firsthand documentary evidence that stone territorial markers of this type were on board La Trinite. The location makes perfect sense. The spanish ship theory is just speculation. It's all summarised expertly in the judgement, which, rightly in my view, critiques attempts to oppose hard evidence with unsupported speculation. Naturally there is a small degree of doubt, as there almost always will be with early shipwrecks. Read the evidence, then decide what makes more sense.

 

[huntsman53]

The cannon are of the right type. There is firsthand documentary evidence that stone territorial markers of this type were on board La Trinite. The location makes perfect sense. The spanish ship theory is just speculation. It's all summarised expertly in the judgement, which, rightly in my view, critiques attempts to oppose hard evidence with unsupported speculation. Naturally there is a small degree of doubt, as there almost always will be with early shipwrecks. Read the evidence, then decide what makes more sense.

I refuse to line another entity's pockets and pay for information that should be free, so there is no way for me to read the evidence. Besides, would you not agree that it is fairly easy for Lawyers and so-called experts to make evidence fall in line with their case against the opposition and that the Courts and it's Judges are no more the wiser??!!

 

[AllAtSea]

I refuse to line another entity's pockets and pay for information that should be free, so there is no way for me to read the evidence.

OK, so govt should get out of the way and stop interfering, then provide stuff for free when you need it. Hmmm.

Guess you'll either have to wait for it to pasted somewhere for free, or remain in ignorance. But until you've read the evidence you cannot reasonably speculate on other explanations.

 

[AllAtSea]

That would mean the Spanish were using the stone pillar probably as Ballast?



uh oh

Nope.

 

[ARC]

Ya know...

I never did voice my opinion when the OP originally asked a "value"... IF the statue / totem / marker IS THE one of historical significance...

I will say this...

Very few things fall into the very small realm of... "priceless".

But I would have to put the value close to this if not just call it that.

This item alone could be and probably is the sole reason France backdoored this immediately.

 

[huntsman53]

OK, so govt should get out of the way and stop interfering, then provide stuff for free when you need it. Hmmm.

Guess you'll either have to wait for it to pasted somewhere for free, or remain in ignorance. But until you've read the evidence you cannot reasonably speculate on other explanations.

PacerMonitor has nothing to do with the government. They are a private entity set up to provide easy access to court documents for Lawyers, Law Firms and the like to make it way for them to research cases and especially similar cases.

 

[AllAtSea]

PacerMonitor has nothing to do with the government. They are a private entity set up to provide easy access to court documents for Lawyers, Law Firms and the like to make it way for them to research cases and especially similar cases.

You complained that it should be freely available as a matter of law. That is, you demanded govt supply it for free. To the best of my knowledge it is not freely available as a download on the internet, so I paid the very modest fee ($5.50) to get a copy via PacerMonitor. You can do the same, or wait until there is a free download, or go to the court and ask for a copy (I'm assuming you can do this), or remain in ignorance.

 

[huntsman53]

You complained that it should be freely available as a matter of law. That is, you demanded govt supply it for free. To the best of my knowledge it is not freely available as a download on the internet, so I paid the very modest fee ($5.50) to get a copy via PacerMonitor. You can do the same, or wait until there is a free download, or go to the court and ask for a copy (I'm assuming you can do this), or remain in ignorance.

Yes, I believe it should be free to me or anyone else! Besides my 5 years, 4 months and 4 days of service to this Country and it's people in the U.S. Army, I worked for the same Federal Government for 32 years, 8 months and 11 days and almost everything we created and/or recorded was free to the public, to private organizations, private companies and to County, City, State and other Federal Agencies.

 

[Salvor6]

Based on the many theories, stories, some historical information and the fact that the Cannons found are not of the type that would be found on Ribault's Flagship (i.e. they are apparently of the type used in Seacoast fortifications), the La Trinité, it makes more sense that the Monument and the Cannons were captured when the Spanish conquered the French at Fort Caroline, loaded them onto a Spanish Galleon for transport to Spain but then the Galleon and it's cargo were lost either in a Hurricane or battle with a French Naval Vessel.

It doesn't matter if it is a Spanish vessel or the La Trinite. What matters is what the state archies say it is.

 

[huntsman53]

It doesn't matter if it is a Spanish vessel or the La Trinite. What matters is what the state archies say it is.

Yep, just like Ned Beatty as Senator Meachum in the move "Shooter".