Placer Claim Mined Out?

[desertgolddigger]

I belong to a local club that owns a claim. This club has had this claim for many years, and acquired it after the old timers had mined it previously, and others after they commercial outfits closed up.
I walked quite a bit of the 160 acre claim, and noted that just about every wash had been worked. Most of the surface nuggets has also been detected by those with gold detectors. In other words, this place has been picked over and over and over.
But I m a stubborn type of person, and I figured, just watching how people ram their puffer and blower drywashers, that some gold was just being blown through them. maybe not much, but some small stuff that never got a chance to settle behind the riffles.
I know many of you would never go to the effort of digging for three to four hours through the tailings in these washes. Again, I'm a bit stubborn, and anyway, I just wanted to have some fun locally, instead of driving 300 miles roundtrip to something that gives a little more for less effort.
I've spent the last three weeks, digging a few times a week along about 30 yards of wash, and have recovered just about a gram of gold. That might not seem like much, but I have only dug up 5 grams, not counting this one gram in almost 20 years out here drywashing in the desert of southern California.
As you would know, things always seem to go wrong. My gas powered blower motor decided it was time for the repair shop, and haven't heard from the shop in two weeks. So I purchased a WORX WG521 corded electric leaf blower to use with my Royal Large drywasher. I'm using a portable generator to provide the power. And it actually is working better than with my old gas powered blower. I have to run the blower on the lowest speed, or I just blow everything through the riffles. Results are very good, as I am getting gold specks so small that I will have to use the Blue bowl in order to recover them.
I'm not only getting a little gold, I'm having some fun, and I am getting a good workout. I've lost 10 pounds since I started. So things are going well.
I'm still digging test holes around the old time hard rock mines in the hope I will find where the gold has drifted downhill below these mines. So far just a couple specks here and there. I figure I just have to move laterally one way or the other before I get something better Of course, I' don't really know if the old timers stripped the hillsides. Even if they have, they apparently aren't as thorough as I am. I hope that I may be lucky and find a larger piece of gold that the old timers, previous placer miners, and detectorists have missed.
Hope everyone is having as much fun as I have been having.

 

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[desertgolddigger]

Just wondering if there is something in the big rocks?

Brush here can be so over grown that it can take 1 hour to go just 1/3 - 1/2 mile as you are swimming through the brush as a general rule. Forget any kind of animal / quad going through it.

The rocks are large and jagged, calved off of rock outcrops by action of heat, wind and rain. I've looked at this kind of rock, and haven't seen any gold. They're just tire breakers.

Plants do grow near the washes, but for the most part this area we placer and hard rock mine just has scrubby bushes. Oh, the desert can be beautiful when we get lots of rain. The flowers and flowering bushes display their colors after such. This year we had some flowers, but not a whole lot. We did get a ton of bees and bugs after the rains.

 

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[desertgolddigger]

Back from basically scouting out the area of interest. I did dig in two washes, and thought I'd found gold. But determining if it is gold is nearly impossible out in the field.

So I brought the concentrates home, and ran them through the mini cleanup sluice. I might have one speck from the first wash, but what I thought was gold in the second wash ended up not found in the sluice. Probably pyrite.

I found a mine I'd never seen, called the Pussy Mine. Strange name.

The rough map I had gave me the ability to located the roads and the mines and prospects, But I have doubts whether the Township Section lines I added are accurate. I'll have to purchase some maps online that will have these Townships and Sections plotted fairly accurately. I'm hoping I can find one with topography, and the mines and prospects plotted, though I doubt such exists.

It was a fun day of exploring, and I now know a bit better where everything is. Hopefully this knowledge with the hopefully good maps in hand will make my prospecting a bit easier.

I do know one thing. I need to take my mini sluice with me. Panning is difficult out there, and trying to see if I have anything in the pan, near impossible. I see things much better after getting all the junk out of the material, and put in clear water in a pan.

 

[desertgolddigger]

A little more looking around on the internet, netted me an explanation of why one Township section had no claims in it. It's State owned land, and no mining allowed. Rats! I'll just keep plugging along, trying to find something that doesn't belong to anyone.

 

[Assembler]

Back from basically scouting out the area of interest. I did dig in two washes, and thought I'd found gold. But determining if it is gold is nearly impossible out in the field.

So I brought the concentrates home, and ran them through the mini cleanup sluice. I might have one speck from the first wash, but what I thought was gold in the second wash ended up not found in the sluice. Probably pyrite.

I found a mine I'd never seen, called the Pussy Mine. Strange name.

The rough map I had gave me the ability to located the roads and the mines and prospects, But I have doubts whether the Township Section lines I added are accurate. I'll have to purchase some maps online that will have these Townships and Sections plotted fairly accurately. I'm hoping I can find one with topography, and the mines and prospects plotted, though I doubt such exists.

It was a fun day of exploring, and I now know a bit better where everything is. Hopefully this knowledge with the hopefully good maps in hand will make my prospecting a bit easier.

I do know one thing. I need to take my mini sluice with me. Panning is difficult out there, and trying to see if I have anything in the pan, near impossible. I see things much better after getting all the junk out of the material, and put in clear water in a pan.

Perhaps you can flush the material first in a 3-5 gallon bucket first before running the material through the mini sluice. This step should remove much of the very fine sediment that can be slowing you down.

Just running a small pump with the output going through a tube to the bottom of the 3-5 gallon bucket will flush out a fair amount of fine sediment with out flushing the values out as the material will act as a sand filter to hold even the fine values.

Even the flushing waste water could be reused with a number of hours to settle out most of the sediment.

 

[desertgolddigger]

Perhaps you can flush the material first in a 3-5 gallon bucket first before running the material through the mini sluice. This step should remove much of the very fine sediment that can be slowing you down.

Just running a small pump with the output going through a tube to the bottom of the 3-5 gallon bucket will flush out a fair amount of fine sediment with out flushing the values out as the material will act as a sand filter to hold even the fine values.

Even the flushing waste water could be reused with a number of hours to settle out most of the sediment.

I'd thought of that in a different way. I'd need about 20 gallons of water though. One basin for cleaning the soil of sediment, and another for the mini sluice.

The hard part will be locating some specks of gold, then moving until I find the source.

Oh yes, the other hard part is trying to figure out where claims are. Like I said, very few are posted with discovery markers and corner posts.

On the way back from my little early morning adventure, I spotted two tricks, and saw one detectorist. I thought they might be club members, but weren't. I mentioned claims, and the guy said, if there weren't markers, then he wasn't going to worry. If it were a claim, and the owner showed up, then the worst that would happen is being told to get off the claim. That would be the worst, as the claim wasn't marked as required. And he said, the rules require those markers.

To me, that's good logic, and would solve my worry about not being able to locate claims due to lack of markers.

After thinking about why a Township section wouldn't have any claims, my brain thought about the one near our club claim. That's a State owned Township section. Both have shading inside those boundaries. There's a third also. Again, the second one I mentioned where I looked this morning is Also State land.

So All the other Township Sections have at least one claim, and no way to determine where those claims are located, and most unmarked.

 

[Clay Diggins]

California Code, Penal Code - PEN § 487d​

Every person who feloniously steals, takes, and carries away, or attempts to take, steal, and carry from any mining claim, tunnel, sluice, undercurrent, riffle box, or sulfurate machine, another's gold dust, amalgam, or quicksilver is guilty of grand theft and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Caliifornia PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE
SECTION 3900-3924

3902. The location of a placer claim shall be made in the following
manner:
(a) By erecting at the point of discovery thereon a conspicuous
and substantial monument, and by posting in or on the monument a
notice of location containing all of the following:
(1) The name of the claim.
(2) The name, current mailing address or current residence
address, of the locator.
(3) The date of the location, which shall be the date of posting
the notice.
(4) The number of feet or acreage claimed.
(5) A description of the claim by reference to some natural object
or permanent monument as will identify the claim located.
(b) By marking the boundaries so that they may be readily traced
and by erecting at each corner of the claim, or at the nearest
accessible points thereto, a conspicuous and substantial monument.
Each corner monument shall bear or contain markings sufficient to
appropriately designate the corner of the mining claim to which it
pertains and the name of the claim.
Where the United States survey has been extended over the land
embraced in the location, the claim may be taken by legal
subdivisions and no other reference than those of the survey shall be
required, and the boundaries of a claim so located and described
need not be staked or monumented. The description by legal
subdivisions shall be deemed the equivalent of marking.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Theft of minerals is no different than theft of your lawn mower or car.

Let me know who your tricks are. I'll stop by their house while they aren't home and take some of their stuff I like. I'm sure it's OK if they don't have a sign saying "Don't steal my stuff".

Theft is theft even if you don't see a sign. Every claimant by law posts annual public notice of their ownership of the minerals at the County Recorder. That's all the legal notice that's required.

 

[Assembler]

I'd thought of that in a different way. I'd need about 20 gallons of water though. One basin for cleaning the soil of sediment, and another for the mini sluice.

The hard part will be locating some specks of gold, then moving until I find the source.

If all you are trying to accomplish is finding most of the specks with most of the flour along with it. Try using your 1/3 - 1/2 buckets screened to about 15 - 20 mesh the material then fill the bucket close to full of water with the material then use a cordless drill with a paint mixer attachment to stir but not loose much water if you can for 1-2 minutes, let settle, then scoop out all but the last 1-2 inches of material to pan or sluice the rest. You will recover likely 98 percent of your colors. Plus you can recycle the water after a short settle time for your mini sluice or panning.

On the way back from my little early morning adventure, I spotted two tricks, and saw one detectorist. I thought they might be club members, but weren't. I mentioned claims, and the guy said, if there weren't markers, then he wasn't going to worry. If it were a claim, and the owner showed up, then the worst that would happen is being told to get off the claim. That would be the worst, as the claim wasn't marked as required. And he said, the rules require those markers.

Best to both check the County record for a reference to "Discovery" and check out at the location for actual required work at the "Discovery" on the ground even if there is no mound / post / monument.

 

[desertgolddigger]

California Code, Penal Code - PEN § 487d​

Every person who feloniously steals, takes, and carries away, or attempts to take, steal, and carry from any mining claim, tunnel, sluice, undercurrent, riffle box, or sulfurate machine, another's gold dust, amalgam, or quicksilver is guilty of grand theft and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

It may say that, but if the owners do not properly maintain their corner and discovery posts, they are at fault, and possibly could have their rights to that claim removed for violating the agreement they signed.

What I said was I probably wouldn't get in trouble if there are no makers posted. All the owners can legally do is ask me to leave, and leave whatever I've dug up. I would remind them of their responsibilities as a claim owner, if they don't want someone on their claim. My club maintains their markers in accordance with their contract they signed.

So please, do not write like the above when both parties are at fault. I've yet to find any discovery markers with the required paperwork anywhere except three locations out where I look around, two of which are my club claims, and one an individuals claim. If they can do it, everyone should be doing it.

Enough said

 

[desertgolddigger]

Theft of minerals is no different than theft of your lawn mower or car.

Let me know who your tricks are. I'll stop by their house while they aren't home and take some of their stuff I like. I'm sure it's OK if they don't have a sign saying "Don't steal my stuff".

Theft is theft even if you don't see a sign. Every claimant by law posts annual public notice of their ownership of the minerals at the County Recorder. That's all the legal notice that's required.

Then where are the coordinates of their claims boundaries. I've looked online, and can't find them. I've found the claim numbers, and lists of fees paid, and the Township and section, but that's all.

Please tell me where I find the claim border coordinates.

I've looked at the references, such as the survey, but the surveys posted are from the late 1800's. Not current with modern claims newer than the mid 1960's.

This is why I've asked for help for those coordinates. If I can't get them, and plot them on a map, how can you tell where a claim is, if the owner is too lazy to do their responsibility as a claim owner, and put corner and discovery markers up. Even cairns would attract my attention, and I've seen very few of those, and never delineating the four corners.

I'll try not to intrude on anyone's claim, but without references, that's nearly impossible.

Enough said. Let the dead horse lay.

 

[Clay Diggins]

It may say that, but if the owners do not properly maintain their corner and discovery posts, they are at fault, and possibly could have their rights to that claim removed for violating the agreement they signed.

BS. Theft is theft. You just made up a law that doesn't exist.

There is no requirement in California to maintain corner or discovery posts and as I already pointed out California law specifically says you never have to stake a placer claim if it's located by the survey.

Claimants don't sign any agreement and can't have their claim removed for any of those reasons.

Minerals are real property. They are classified and taxed as real property in California.

If you want to steal other peoples minerals go ahead and steal, eventually you will pay the price. I could post some California convictions for mineral theft here but why bother? Please don't come on a public forum and make up excuses why it's OK to steal.

 

[desertgolddigger]

Caliifornia PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE
SECTION 3900-3924

3902. The location of a placer claim shall be made in the following
manner:
(a) By erecting at the point of discovery thereon a conspicuous
and substantial monument, and by posting in or on the monument a
notice of location containing all of the following:
(1) The name of the claim.
(2) The name, current mailing address or current residence
address, of the locator.
(3) The date of the location, which shall be the date of posting
the notice.
(4) The number of feet or acreage claimed.
(5) A description of the claim by reference to some natural object
or permanent monument as will identify the claim located.
(b) By marking the boundaries so that they may be readily traced
and by erecting at each corner of the claim, or at the nearest
accessible points thereto, a conspicuous and substantial monument.
Each corner monument shall bear or contain markings sufficient to
appropriately designate the corner of the mining claim to which it
pertains and the name of the claim.
Where the United States survey has been extended over the land
embraced in the location, the claim may be taken by legal
subdivisions and no other reference than those of the survey shall be
required, and the boundaries of a claim so located and described
need not be staked or monumented. The description by legal
subdivisions shall be deemed the equivalent of marking.

If nothing is required, and and no reference material needs to be given, then I guess I'll quit. It's impossible to determine something, if no one is willing to provide information. Why try to prospect. I quit!!!!

 

[Clay Diggins]

Bullshit. Theft is theft. You just made up a law that doesn't exist.

There is no requirement in California to maintain corner or discovery posts and as I already pointed out California law specifically says you never have to stake a placer claim if it's located by the survey.

Claimants don't sign any agreement and can't have their claim removed for any of those reasons.

Minerals are real property. They are classified and taxed as real property in California.

If you want to steal other peoples minerals go ahead and steal, eventually you will pay the price. I could post some California convictions for mineral theft here but why bother? Please don't cpme on a public forum and make up excuses why it's OK to steal.

All the information is available to you and the entire public. Mining claims are a matter of public record in every state.

Mining claims are not located by coordinates. Lode claims are located by metes and bounds descriptions and placer claims are located by aliquot part. All of that is explained in the links I shared with you a few days ago.

The BLM doesn't know where the mining claims are because it's not part of their job. You need to move past the Land Management agencies if you want to understand where there are claimed mineral rights.

If you want to know where a mining claim is located pull the required public record from the County Recorder in the county where the claim is located. That location notice will have a legal land description as well as a map of the claim. There is no other path to what you want. This is the same path prospectors have been taking since 1866. If a bunch of ignorant miners could do it in 1866 I'm betting you could do the same thing today from the comfort of your home.

The Land Matters mining claim maps have links to the county records. They also have a "Land Management" layer so you can see what lands are public land. They also show townships, sections and aliquot parts. The only thing that hasn't been done for you on those maps is to get copies of the location notices for those claims so you know exactly where they are. Get copies of those location notices and plot those onto your topo map and your job is done - you can go prospect the open lands.

 

[Assembler]

Boundaries:
The "State" law is no more specific than the federal regarding the marking at the boundaries of a placer claim not located by legal subdivisions.

Discovery work:
The "Discovery" work in all cases must be made whether it is a new location or a relocation.
It has been decided by the courts that failure to do discovery work within the XX period after location does not forfeit the location if the work is done and an amended location showing the performances of discovery work is recorded prior to the time when some other person should locate the same ground.

 

[Clay Diggins]

If I can't get them, and plot them on a map, how can you tell where a claim is, if the owner is too lazy to do their responsibility as a claim owner, and put corner and discovery markers up.

I'll be the first to say putting up corners and maintaining them could be wise. I always suggest claim owners mark and maintain their stakes and signage.

That being said you need to get off your high horse and realize that there is no obligation or responsibility for a claim owner to stake a properly located placer claim in California. None. Not moral or legal. Zero.

Call it lazy if you want. Clearly you have never owned a claim or tried to maintain stakes. Many claim owners near urban areas prefer not to visually announce the presence of a mining claim. The same tricks that think they have a right to steal someone's minerals because they weren't warned away to their satisfaction will have no trouble knocking over your stakes and then claiming it's your fault they stole from your claim.

 

[Assembler]

Both within "The State of Oregon" and "The State of California" codes have reference to "Admissibility in Evidence of Location Records: Force and Effect" :

The Record of any location of a mining claim, mill site, or tunnel right in the office of the county recorder, as provided in...........X shall be received in evidence and have the same force and effect in the courts of the State as the original notice.

 

[Assembler]

If nothing is required, and and no reference material needs to be given, then I guess I'll quit. It's impossible to determine something, if no one is willing to provide information. Why try to prospect. I quit!!!!

The criteria is required by the "Survey" and "Surveyor". The "Public rectangular survey system" will cover this criteria as well as Metes and Bounds.

You need to describe what you refer to by "Prospect"?

 

[Assembler]

Minerals are real property. They are classified and taxed as real property in California.

I see a reference to "Deeds" within "The State of California" code pointing out that a mining claim can be transferred only by operation of law or by a deed in writing; but a discoverer of mineral may transfer his right of location by parol.

I see a reference to "Fixtures" as a fixture is an article which may or may not actually be affixed to the mine. "In this state" there is many kinds of items / tools / machinery used in working, or developing a mine are deemed to be affixed to the mine.

It is not clear as to what is "classified and taxed as real property" in California. Perhaps I'm missing something here?

 

[Assembler]

Then where are the coordinates of their claims boundaries. I've looked online, and can't find them. I've found the claim numbers, and lists of fees paid, and the Township and section, but that's all.

Please tell me where I find the claim border coordinates.

I've looked at the references, such as the survey, but the surveys posted are from the late 1800's. Not current with modern claims newer than the mid 1960's.

This is why I've asked for help for those coordinates. If I can't get them, and plot them on a map, how can you tell where a claim is, if the owner is too lazy to do their responsibility as a claim owner, and put corner and discovery markers up. Even cairns would attract my attention, and I've seen very few of those, and never delineating the four corners.

I'll try not to intrude on anyone's claim, but without references, that's nearly impossible.

Enough said. Let the dead horse lay.

The references are at the County recorder office. The boundaries are described at the County recorder office.