Pirate Treasure-Trying to get a permit to dig up

[Doubter in MD]

This was his favorite. The only problem was it was also very good at locating buried brass objects. EVERYTIME he used this and located a shallow target during practice, testing or proving his abilities, there would be a brass object at the depth he said it would be.

I don't know exactly why Vor edited out the middle but it certainly doesn't change the context.

 

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[Bigdogdad]

I think because we now know that it is in a metal container.
V

vor-This question was directed to ECS. None of this really has anything to do with you. Please let ECS speak for himself.

My guy told me he got a reading for gold, silver and iron. This would lead you to believe it was an iron container. Every barrel from that era had iron rings around it to keep the wood from busting apart. It may be that this is the iron he picked up on. In his post before he edited it, ECs said the gold was coins in a barrel. I stand behind my remote guy's info.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I don't know exactly why Vor edited out the middle but it certainly doesn't change the context.

Do you think you could take a brass pendulum with gold or anything else in it, and use it to consistently point to specific, exact spots on the ground, be able to consistently tell ahead of time the exact depth almost to the inch, and do this at different locations, at times from a distance of more than 100 feet, and find brass objects every time, while being tested with several witnesses present? That is the point I was trying to make. The doubter's from Maryland or wherever else they come from always make an issue that dowsers can't pass tests. My pal Ovid did, and did it consistently, not only with witnesses but witnesses that were serious doubters, who then became believers.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I think most readers can discern intent here.

Don't quite understand why that location was given though as a simple Bing search of ""Orange Creek meets the Oklawaha River" brings up:

Orange Creek meets the Oklawaha River - Bing

V

I checked this out, interesting but pretty vague on locations. ECS posted a number that leads you to an exact spot that is pretty much as specific as you can get. I wanted to know how he came up with it.

 

[vor]

Hello, Doubter
Good to see you posting.
I often just quote the part of a post that I am responding to so that the reader doesn't have to read the complete long version of the post to understand the response. More of a courtesy than anything.
Beware the bark.
V

 

[Salvor6]

I think most readers can discern intent here.

Don't quite understand why that location was given though as a simple Bing search of ""Orange Creek meets the Oklawaha River" brings up:

Orange Creek meets the Oklawaha River - Bing

V

vor I went to the link you posted. It took me to a search engine with several links. I clicked on them and it showed pictures of the River Styx, Cross Creek, Lochloosa Creek, Silver River, etc. No pics of Orange Creek.

 

[Doubter in MD]

Do you think you could take a brass pendulum with gold or anything else in it, and consistently point to specific, exact spots on the ground, be able to consistently tell ahead of time the exact depth almost to the inch, and do this at different locations, at times from a distance of more than 100 feet, and find brass objects every time, while being tested with several witnesses present? That is the point I was trying to make. The doubter's from Maryland or wherever else they come from always make an issue that dowsers can't pass tests. My pal Ovid did, and did it consistently, not only with witnesses but witnesses that were serious doubters, who then became believers.

Whatever. It didn't change the context. I believe that Vor's point was if a brass pendulum filled with gold was mostly finding brass then it wasn't really doing what it was intended to do. (Find gold/treasure)

I don't believe. Dowsers can't find anything when they are tested with scientific methods under controlled conditions. However, my name has nothing to do with dowsers. Please don't jump to unfounded conclusions.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Whatever. It didn't change the context. I believe that Vor's point was if a brass pendulum filled with gold was mostly finding brass then it wasn't really doing what it was intended to do. (Find gold/treasure)

I don't believe. Dowsers can't find anything when they are tested with scientific methods under controlled conditions. However, my name has nothing to do with dowsers. Please don't jump to unfounded conclusions.

I guess if you took out the high dollar or low dollar metal detector that you bought to find gold and all you found was brass ammo casings, it really wasn't doing what you intended to use if for, but it was still working perfectly and could be used to pass most metal detecting tests. It would not be hard to figure out if it really worked without getting to scientific and I am not really sure what you would consider a "controlled" condition. I know that when I am posting on here I have a hard time controlling myself.

You quoted my post where I said the doubters make an issue that dowsers can't pass tests. I said my dowser could. You then stated that they can't find anything when tested. Did you ever test one yourself under any kind of conditions? I doubt it. Your name may not have anything to do with dowsers but creating a username with the word Doubter speaks volumes. We could go round and round about the doubter's doubting dowsing, but it will not change anybody's opinion. After over two years on TNET this is the conclusion I have found.

FTR-(for the record) Your last two sentences were probably meant to be one sentence. Perhaps you were trying to say "I don't believe dowsers CAN find anything when they are tested....." Maybe a little editing is needed. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[ECS]

...

My guy told me he got a reading for gold, silver and iron. This would lead you to believe it was an iron container. Every barrel from that era had iron rings around it to keep the wood from busting apart. It may be that this is the iron he picked up on. In his post before he edited it, ECs said the gold was coins in a barrel...

I only mentioned the small keg with Mexican silver dollars.
My edit was relating the fact that the course of the Oklawaha River was altered in the 1960's by the attempted construction of the Cross Florida Barge Canal.
Before the Oklawaha meets the St Johns,it become Lake Oklawaha where there was another riverboat landing used by Dickinson and Hart,Davenport Landing,and meets the St Johns,just south is Horse Landing on the St Johns,where Dickinson and his 2nd Florida Calvary captured and sunk the Union gunboat,USS Columbine.
Lola Sanchez provided the intel for that action.

 

[Doubter in MD]

I guess if you took out the high dollar or low dollar metal detector that you bought to find gold and all you found was brass ammo casings, it really wasn't doing what you intended to use if for, but it was still working perfectly and could be used to pass most metal detecting tests. It would not be hard to figure out if it really worked without getting to scientific and I am not really sure what you would consider a "controlled" condition. I know that when I am posting on here I have a hard time controlling myself.

You quoted my post where I said the doubters make an issue that dowsers can't pass tests. I said my dowser could. You then stated that they can't find anything when tested. Did you ever test one yourself under any kind of conditions? I doubt it. Your name may not have anything to do with dowsers but creating a username with the word Doubter speaks volumes. We could go round and round about the doubter's doubting dowsing, but it will not change anybody's opinion. After over two years on TNET this is the conclusion I have found.

Talk about editing out the context. I said, "Dowsers can't find anything when they are tested with scientific methods under controlled conditions." If you can refute that assertion with hard facts from controlled studies I'd be glad to read it.

Edit: added a cap to the beginning of my post.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I only mentioned the small keg with Mexican silver dollars.
My edit was relating the fact that the course of the Oklawaha River was altered in the 1960's by the attempted construction of the Cross Florida Barge Canal.
Before the Oklawaha meets the St Johns,it become Lake Oklawaha where there was another riverboat landing used by Dickinson and Hart,Davenport Landing,and meets the St Johns,just south is Horse Landing on the St Johns,where Dickinson and his 2nd Florida Calvary captured and sunk the Union gunboat,USS Columbine.
Lola Sanchez provided the intel for that action.

I see again why everybody quotes each other. Then if a post is edited by the poster the original post remains. You mentioned gold coins before it was edited. I still would like to know how you picked this exact GPS number. I have been straight up with you on all of this. If you can't/won't answer this simple question, I think I am about over it. It will soon become a pointless exercise. Maybe it already has. Most of your posts just end up being a listing of names and places that usually have little to do with the subject at hand or the questions asked.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Talk about editing out the context. I said, "Dowsers can't find anything when they are tested with scientific methods under controlled conditions." If you can refute that assertion with hard facts from controlled studies I'd be glad to read it.

Edit: added a cap to the beginning of my post.

Please answer my question. Did you ever test a dowser? I couldn't care less what you have read or haven't read. I am out in the real world on a constant basis working side by side with plumbers and other actual people that use dowsing with great success on a regular basis.

I will bet that a lot of people can do a great job of singing when they are alone with nobody to hear them. They can obviously without a doubt do a great job of it. If someone were listening in without the singer knowing it they would be a witness to the great singing. They heard it with their own ears. Now put the singer before a live audience and test them to see how well they sing. They may do a terrible job or they may even refuse to do it. Can they sing? Of course, they do it all the time when alone. Can they pass a singing test? Usually not. This may not make any sense as related to dowsing but it is a known fact that dowsers do not do well when they know they are being tested. There are ways to get around this. I have done it. Let's please drop this subject. It has been re-hashed and re-hashed and re-hashed to death on here.

 

[ECS]

... You mentioned gold coins before it was edited. I still would like to know how you picked this exact GPS number... Most of your posts just end up being a listing of names and places that usually have little to do with the subject at hand or the questions asked.

Hubbard Hart was paid $4500 in gold coins for his services for the Cause.
The names and places have everything to do with the subject at hand-the research of tales told by old timers,the local lore,and the history behind the lore,and boots on the ground in the 1960's before the canal project.At that time,one,who did not have local connections,could be shot by sentinels,or could just disappear.Those who lived here then,know to what I am refering .I hope that answered your question.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think most readers can discern intent here.

Don't quite understand why that location was given though as a simple Bing search of ""Orange Creek meets the Oklawaha River" brings up:

Orange Creek meets the Oklawaha River - Bing

V

Vor I dont get it either and why tell anybody but a nuetral party? I havent read all the replys but it doesnt seem like much of a test to me if its common knowlege in treasure circles.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Well as you can see ECS is not interested in answering my questions as to how he picked that EXACT spot. I have been constantly given the third degree by him, vor and others as if I were on trial here. I have tried to answer every question or comment posted on here no matter how ridiculous or irrelevant they may be. The critics have hounded me from day one. This is no problem because most of them appear to be lightweights. I have shared way more information than I probably should have. Again, this is no problem because it has caused others to privately share lots of great information with me.

On his own ECS decided that he would put my remote guy to some sort of ill-conceived test. My guy and I discussed this and decided to go along if nothing more for the entertainment value. I asked ECS to keep certain details private by communicating thru PM's(personal messaging available thru this site). We were ready. Out of the blue ECS posts a set of GPS numbers for all to see. These numbers were supposed to be able to put my guy in the general area of where ECS thinks a possible treasure may be. My remote guy was then supposed to do his thing and tell all of us what he thinks may be buried somewhere within the area. It all seemed simple enough but as we all know sometimes people can screw up their own nocturnal emission.

My guy takes this set of numbers and starts his process. The first thing he notices is that ECS did not really have these numbers correct. A few letters and decimal points added where they are supposed to be and my guy makes an interesting discovery. He has already got this site in his list of treasure sites. Not just the general area, but this particular location. He does that thing that he does and comes up with the requested info. Gold, silver, iron at a depth from the surface (water) of 44 feet to the top of the cache. He shares all this with me. I was at work at my full-time job when ECS decided to post these coordinates but my guy was right on it within minutes. He works fast as he has been doing this for quite awhile.

Ok, we wait for ECS. And wait. And wait. vor is watching because I don't think he sleeps at night. Kind of like an owl. Or a vampire. BCH is deep into all this as he is a big ECS supporter. BCH eats his popcorn and waits. And waits. He eats some more popcorn. I check the computer and then go back to my garage to work. I lose patience and decide to spill the beans. We are convinced that ECS had been given this location sometime in the past(probably distant past as he claims to be very old). ECS did not think there would be any way my guy would come up with this. He doesn't know what to do. He decides to wait and think it over before posting.

The next day I check the computer. No reply from ECS. I periodically check my tablet during the day as I anxiously await the verdict. Finally in the afternoon ECS makes the post that many of us have been waiting for. He goes into one of his long posts with lots of names and dates and facts and dates and names and in the process tells us that a treasure had been dumped overboard in this very area. A barrel full of gold coins to be exact. There were some silver coins also buried in this area. I had been waiting to hear these very words as I have complete confidence in my guy and his abilities. ECS tries to waffle a little bit by stating that he had already shared some of this info with Salvor6 as if this is supposed to have any effect on how this all went down.

So I get home and turn on the computer. Before you know it I realize ECS has edited his post. He no longer mentions a gold filled barrel. I am not sure if this was his choice, an accident (he is old) or a directive from his handlers. Either way the evidence is gone. If only I had known how to post with my tablet I would have been sure to immediately quote him before he had second and third thoughts. He now denies ever having mentioned a gold filled barrel. I know what I read. I am a stickler for details. I am known to be very good at keeping the facts straight.

Okay so now my guy and I are curious as to how ECS got the coordinates of the treasure. I have asked numerous times. Does he have other guys he works with? Did he find a Civil War diary listing the location? Did he throw a dart at a map and it just happened to stick at this spot? Did BCH use his budding remote dowsing skills to help ECS out. The drama continues. I await ECS's answer if he will be so kind as to share. Pass the popcorn. Got any salt? Butter? Yummy!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont understand the test or the results with all the bickering. Did BDD's remote sensing guy pass the test of ECS?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Please stop the insults now.....No one is required to prove anything and that goes for both sides....

Hello TH. No one is required to prove anything but BDD has agreed to let ECS put his remote sensing guy to a test.

 

[ECS]

Once again,I NEVER mentioned a barrel filled with gold coins,but only a keg,half filled with Mexican silver dollars after CSA spy Lola Sanchez was given $500 from that keg.
Ask Salvor6 if I ever mentioned a barrel of gold-this is why I PM'd him with the story before I posted the GPS,to keep this honest.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Once again,I NEVER mentioned a barrel filled with gold coins,but only a keg,half filled with Mexican silver dollars after CSA spy Lola Sanchez was given $500 from that keg.
Ask Salvor6 if I ever mentioned a barrel of gold-this is why I PM'd him with the story before I posted the GPS,to keep this honest.

ECS= keg of silver coins or a barrel of gold coins

BDD's guy= gold and silver in an iron container


Shoot I could have guessed correct 50 percent of the time. We need a better test.

I see now it was a good idea to PM Salvor6 but you should pick a completely nuetral party such as TH our moderator.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Hubbard Hart was paid $4500 in gold coins for his services for the Cause.
The names and places have everything to do with the subject at hand-the research of tales told by old timers,the local lore,and the history behind the lore,and boots on the ground in the 1960's before the canal project.At that time,one,who did not have local connections,could be shot by sentinels,or could just disappear.Those who lived here then,know to what I am refering .I hope that answered your question.

I made my last post just as you were posting this. My question was how did you come up with an exact GPS coordinate where my guy had already located the treasure by remote sensing a long time ago? I am guessing by what you are saying is that someone gave you the location. Is this what you mean? I don't want you to be shot by sentinels or just disappear.....hmm......ECS......disappear.....naw I don't want you to disappear, your too much fun!