petition to keep apache trail open

[azdave35]

https://www.change.org/p/save-the-a...xp=message-18955551-en-US&share_bandit_var=v1

 

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[dredgernaut]

save it!!!!please!!

 

[Azquester]

Dave,

Sort of the wrong website to be promoting for saving anything American. Change.org is a site dedicated to destroying our way of life not preserving it. Hidden agenda. I suggest calling Doug Duceys office yourself about Apache Trail repairs and avoid this site. It wants to send you propaganda emails in return for signing a petition. Just a suggestion.

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Dave,

Sort of the wrong website to be promoting for saving anything American. Change.org is a site dedicated to destroying our way of life not preserving it. Hidden agenda. I suggest calling Doug Duceys office yourself about Apache Trail repairs and avoid this site. It wants to send you propaganda emails in return for signing a petition. Just a suggestion.

It's on the Apache Junction Chit Chat page on FB and it is important to get it open. I have the nagging feeling that they don't want it open in order to further restrict access to the forest and it's our land not the federal governments land. There are loads of signatures and donations so far. It needs to be re-opened or everyone is going to lose access to a lot of trails and a lot tourism.

 

[azdave35]

It's on the Apache Junction Chit Chat page on FB and it is important to get it open. I have the nagging feeling that they don't want it open in order to further restrict access to the forest and it's our land not the federal governments land. There are loads of signatures and donations so far. It needs to be re-opened or everyone is going to lose access to a lot of trails and a lot tourism.

you hit the nail right on the head

 

[deducer]

It's on the Apache Junction Chit Chat page on FB and it is important to get it open. I have the nagging feeling that they don't want it open in order to further restrict access to the forest and it's our land not the federal governments land. There are loads of signatures and donations so far. It needs to be re-opened or everyone is going to lose access to a lot of trails and a lot tourism.

It's not that they don't want it open, but where are they going to get the money to fix up the Apache trail? It's going to get much worse- the current administration is proposing a $500 million cut to NPS for 2020. The NPS already has a gigantic maintenance backlog. So expect no help from the feds or NPS. Will the state step in? ADOT has not listed the Apache trail in their "upcoming projects" database.

Check it out here:

https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/2020_highlights_book.pdf

 

[azdave35]

It's not that they don't want it open, but where are they going to get the money to fix up the Apache trail? It's going to get much worse- the current administration is proposing a $500 million cut to NPS for 2020. The NPS already has a gigantic maintenance backlog. So expect no help from the feds or NPS. Will the state step in? ADOT has not listed the Apache trail in their "upcoming projects" database.

Check it out here:

https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/files/uploads/2020_highlights_book.pdf

 

[deducer]

View attachment 1779357

Aw Dave, thought you would have a better response than that. The question remains, however- who will pay for it? Doesn't seem like a cheap fixed, especially considering the rock slides which would almost certainly require the road to be regraded.

ADOT has already spent $6.5m in upgrading the road between AJ and Tortilla Flat. I'm thinking they're inclined to call it quits at that and just turn everything past Tortilla flat into a walking trail.

I wouldn't be opposed to that.

 

[azdave35]

Aw Dave, thought you would have a better response than that. The question remains, however- who will pay for it? Doesn't seem like a cheap fixed, especially considering the rock slides which would almost certainly require the road to be regraded.

ADOT has already spent $6.5m in upgrading the road between AJ and Tortilla Flat. I'm thinking they're inclined to call it quits at that and just turn everything past Tortilla flat into a walking trail.

I wouldn't be opposed to that.

arthur....the president didn't hold back funding for our highways...we have received massive funds for highway repiair and building new freeways...if you had been here lately you'd know this...everywhere you go they are building new freeways or widening old ones..we have to so all you out of staters can come here and play...the president has nothing to do with fixing highway 88...if there is a snag you can blame it on the forest service..you say you would like to see 88 turned into a hiking trail?...i hate to tell you this but there are about 7.5 million people that actually live here (you know..the ones that pay for everything?) and we all want that road open...

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Dave, arguing with propagandists is a losing proposition as they are not constrained by either truth or reality. They all have TDS.

Also, be advised you are in fly-over country. Those 7.5 million people don't matter. It's what the coastal elites want for us that matters. We deplorables are incapable of governing ourselves.

Just so everyone knows, the way road construction works in AZ is that the AZ Gov't plans the work, then is re-imbursed by the feds. It has nothing to do with either budget cuts or increases to the National Park Service. I don't even know where that came from. Jeez.

 

[azdave35]

Dave, arguing with propagandists is a losing proposition as they are not constrained by either truth or reality. They all have TDS.

Also, be advised you are in fly-over country. Those 7.5 million people don't matter. It's what the coastal elites want for us that matters. We deplorables are incapable of governing ourselves.

Just so everyone knows, the way road construction works in AZ is that the AZ Gov't plans the work, then is re-imbursed by the feds. It has nothing to do with either budget cuts or increases to the National Park Service. I don't even know where that came from. Jeez.

but jim..he saw it on the news..it must be true

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Perhaps. I see the media ignoring the administration's $2.5 trillion infrastructure proposal (including huge increases to road funding), in favor of breathlessly clamoring over a couple hundred billion of cuts to redundantly funded programs. I'm sure the bureaucrats in those agencies are also doing everything they can to claw that money back, including feeding out press releases to cloud the issue. I sure don't miss being an employee of the federal gov't and being exposed to that Machiavellian machine.

The locals there in Maricopa/Pinal/Gila counties are best equipped to fight this battle. Arizonans have fought the bureaucrats in the federal gov't since 1864. They know every trick that will get thrown at them, it's all been done before. IMO, the governor has the best chance of breaking up this little land power-grab as he has a direct line to the President. He'll need it. So a petition to the governor, as the locals already knew and are doing, is the best way to fight it.

 

[azdave35]

Perhaps. I see the media ignoring the administration's $2.5 trillion infrastructure proposal (including huge increases to road funding), in favor of breathlessly clamoring over a couple hundred billion of cuts to redundantly funded programs. I'm sure the bureaucrats in those agencies are also doing everything they can to claw that money back, including feeding out press releases to cloud the issue. I sure don't miss being an employee of the federal gov't and being exposed to that Machiavellian machine.

The locals there in Maricopa/Pinal/Gila counties are best equipped to fight this battle. Arizonans have fought the bureaucrats in the federal gov't since 1864. They know every trick that will get thrown at them, it's all been done before. IMO, the governor has the best chance of breaking up this little land power-grab as he has a direct line to the President. He'll need it. So a petition to the governor, as the locals already knew and are doing, is the best way to fight it.

like i said before..if they try to close 88 arizona will revolt...lol

 

[deducer]

arthur....the president didn't hold back funding for our highways...we have received massive funds for highway repiair and building new freeways...if you had been here lately you'd know this...everywhere you go they are building new freeways or widening old ones..we have to so all you out of staters can come here and play...the president has nothing to do with fixing highway 88...if there is a snag you can blame it on the forest service..you say you would like to see 88 turned into a hiking trail?...i hate to tell you this but there are about 7.5 million people that actually live here (you know..the ones that pay for everything?) and we all want that road open...

I've driven over the refurbished part of 88 and am glad that the 'rumbling strips' of the old asphalt is gone. It's certainly much smoother driving now.

Most people don't go past TF- a lot of them head to Canyon Lake. Going past TF gets you nowhere except to Roosevelt.. and it's about an hour plus just to go 30 miles.

I think that's the portion they want to turn into a walking trail.

 

[deducer]

Dave, arguing with propagandists is a losing proposition as they are not constrained by either truth or reality. They all have TDS.

Also, be advised you are in fly-over country. Those 7.5 million people don't matter. It's what the coastal elites want for us that matters. We deplorables are incapable of governing ourselves.

Just so everyone knows, the way road construction works in AZ is that the AZ Gov't plans the work, then is re-imbursed by the feds. It has nothing to do with either budget cuts or increases to the National Park Service. I don't even know where that came from. Jeez.

Knowing the NPS's ability to maintain trails or the park in general has been severely cut back, is undoubtedly a factor in the state's likelihood of saying "the hell with it," as far as trying to reopen 88 to Roosevelt. I'd be in favor of that because it keeps the sign-shooting, littering nutjobs out of the park.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I've driven over the refurbished part of 88 and am glad that the 'rumbling strips' of the old asphalt is gone. It's certainly much smoother driving now.

Most people don't go past TF- a lot of them head to Canyon Lake. Going past TF gets you nowhere except to Roosevelt.. and it's about an hour plus just to go 30 miles.

I think that's the portion they want to turn into a walking trail.

Hi Deducer.

If you think 88 takes too long to get to Roosevelt, try going via Punkin Center or Globe. Lol.

Ever hear of Apache Lake?

If the army could blast a trail through to Tonto country using only mules and wagons, ADOT has no excuse this day and age. Unless, of course, there's a little horse-trading going on between USFS and ADOT.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Knowing the NPS's ability to maintain trails or the park in general has been severely cut back, is undoubtedly a factor in the state's likelihood of saying "the hell with it," as far as trying to reopen 88 to Roosevelt. I'd be in favor of that because it keeps the sign-shooting, littering nutjobs out of the park.

What park are you taking about? I had no idea there was a national park there.

 

[deducer]

Perhaps. I see the media ignoring the administration's $2.5 trillion infrastructure proposal

What $2.5 trillion infrastructure proposal? It hasn't happened, like most of his grandiose promises.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

What $2.5 trillion infrastructure proposal? It hasn't happened, like most of his grandiose promises.

Do you know what has been holding it up for 3 years? Hint: the same people who were holding up USMCA until this week. LMAO.

EDIT: And I ask again, please educate me on what National Park is along 88?

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

It shouldn't even be WA to begin with. They did the same crap here with the Cohutta and it just burns every few years and is inaccessible in many areas that used to have upkept roads. I am not a big believer in Wilderness areas or the Federal Government having control of so much land to begin with. Do y'all really think the bean heads in Washington care at all other than to "protect" areas so all the city slickers can feel good whilst slurping their Starbucks and puttering around in their Prius?

Not that i live in y'all's neck of the woods but it does matter. No damn hiking trail can replace a road. Then they'll say that hiking is too impactful.

I'm not just not a fan of making even more areas harder to get to!