Pennsylvania large cats ?

[jeff of pa]

Debunking the Pennsylvania Game Commission

http://www.bfro.net/avevid/jacobs/jacobs_photos_pgc.asp

 

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[tennessee]

Puma have been spotted and photographed here in the south. No hoax. Can't tell by your picture of the track. Puma has four toes, kind of spread apart, and a good size pad. I was skeptical for many years, until a lady park ranger here ran across one on a hiking trail and took a picture.

 

[pong12211]

I just saw manbearpig guys I'm super cereal. Why won't anybody believe me.

 

[Higgy]

Lots of mountain lions up this way.

About New Hampshire Mountain Lion | New Hampshire Mountain Lion Here's one that was taken in my area.



I saw one myself last year, and we had tracks on the trail in back of our house as well. Also, when you look at a real Eastern Cougar like this, there's no mistaking it for a bobcat.

 

[Boatlode]

 

[ibjeepn]

Fisher have made a big comeback in pa. The were reintroduced in 1994. They used to be a dense forest critter. Now that there is less forest, they are being seen in populated areas. I have seen them. The males are said to reach 18 pounds. I believe they can be bigger, like anything else with an abundance of food. I caught one on game camera that looked small like a cat. I also had one in my yard that was big. A reddish brown color with a long tail and rounded tip ears. They devastate just about everything. They are the biggest enemy of the porcupine. Attacking their faces first. NSDQ, I hope you do get proof. BTW This is just info on a "new" critter that some may be seeing.

 

[pong12211]

Fisher have made a big comeback in pa. The were reintroduced in 1994. They used to be a dense forest critter. Now that there is less forest, they are being seen in populated areas. I have seen them. The males are said to reach 18 pounds. I believe they can be bigger, like anything else with an abundance of food. I caught one on game camera that looked small like a cat. I also had one in my yard that was big. A reddish brown color with a long tail and rounded tip ears. They devastate just about everything. They are the biggest enemy of the porcupine. Attacking their faces first. NSDQ, I hope you do get proof. BTW This is just info on a "new" critter that some may be seeing.View attachment 1101352View attachment 1101353

I saw one of these last year in archery season for the first time. I have heard of them but never actually saw one they are quite big. The one I saw had a cottontail rabbit in its mouth.

 

[TJE]

It hasn't been that long ago, every wildlife office east of the Mississippi River stated.. "no large cats in the east".
And now the same people are saying.. "well, they're not native.. must be western or pets?".

I have only seem the black panther twice in my 66 years living in the Southern Appalachians.. but, I had the rare chance to examine
a cougar one spring morning a few years back that had been shot... on Signal Mountain... yes, Tennessee!

N9, that's odd you have seen a 'black' one. Never mentioned this since 1978...but, that's what my mother seen leaping across a two lane gravel road here that year. She was so 'worked up' when she got home. Said it only touched the road once...from across,treeline to treeline 30 yards infront of her vehicle "big black cat with a tail as long as its body" she said. I tried to convince her "musta been brown" (typical cougar color)...she swore "no way, it was black"...and that's 1978!!
Go Figure!?

 

[ibjeepn]

I spend a lot of time in the outdoors. A lot of time in the Allegheny National Forest in the winter too. I've yet to see tracks or the animal. In areas that are mass hunted for bear and deer, there are never reports of tracks or seeing the animal. Two weeks ago a lady posted a pic of one killed by a car on the PGC site. Damning the officers for not believing her guy friend. That photo was the same one that has been around for years. It originated out west. With that said. Anything is possible. Dang, it really makes you wonder when you're in the woods at "0" dark thirty. Sitting up against a tree to call turkey at daybreak... yoi.

 

[TJE]

Yes, the fisher. Third largest of the weasel family, next to the badger then wolverine. They are fierce! even seen one wrapped around a running whitetail deers throat! (bleeding it out!)...Many here (they like towns peoples cats and small dogs too!!)

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Debunking the Pennsylvania Game Commission

Debunking the Pennsylvania Game Commission

I came across that link when I was searching for information on the topic. I never added it to my post because I had found contradictory information from credible sources. From my understanding PA officials do not deny the presence of cougars in the State.

http://republicanherald.com/no-lion...-good-source-for-conspiracy-theories-1.223724
"PGC wildlife conservation officer Matt Belding was asked about the presence of lions and the agency's role in their presence. As for the presence of lions, the answer can be yes, probably, or maybe"

It hasn't been that long ago, every wildlife office east of the Mississippi River stated.. "no large cats in the east".
And now the same people are saying.. "well, they're not native.. must be western or pets?".

I have only seem the black panther twice in my 66 years living in the Southern Appalachians.. but, I had the rare chance to examine
a cougar one spring morning a few years back that had been shot... on Signal Mountain... yes, Tennessee!

That's because folks only hear what they want to hear.

Not all cougars are the same, there are several subspecies, one of which was the Eastern Cougar. There are no cougars NATIVE to the East and no breeding populations in the East except the Florida Panther. That doesn't mean there are no cougars at all, I think people are confusing the two. They are not saying cougars do not exist in the east, they are saying there are no native populations breeding in the East.

A cougar was killed in Connecticut, DNA testing revealed the cat travelled 1800 miles from the Black Hills. The sub species known as the Eastern Cougar has been extinct since the 30's.

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/ECougar/newsreleasefinal.html
“We recognize that many people have seen cougars in the wild within the historical range of the eastern cougar,” said the Service’s Northeast Region Chief of Endangered Species Martin Miller. “However, we believe those cougars are not the eastern cougar subspecies. We found no information to support the existence of the eastern cougar.”

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/ecougar/QA.html
Even small populations of cougars, such as those in Florida and North and South Dakota, leave substantial physical evidence (tracks, photographs, scat, hair, genetic samples, road mortalities, cougars shot or caught in traps).

Service biologists assembled 108 records dating from 1900 to 2010 with a high level of confirmation that the described animals were cougars. After careful examination, the biologists concluded all reported cougars were animals that escaped or were released from captivity or that dispersed from the western United States.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0507_030507_cougars.html
At one time, spotting a cougar in the eastern United States ranked alongside an encounter with Bigfoot or a UFO. But over the years, the rise in cougar tales has sparked an interest in wildlife officials and cougar enthusiasts alike.

 

[Number9]

N9, that's odd you have seen a 'black' one. Never mentioned this since 1978...but, that's what my mother seen leaping across a two lane gravel road here that year. She was so 'worked up' when she got home. Said it only touched the road once...from across,treeline to treeline 30 yards infront of her vehicle "big black cat with a tail as long as its body" she said. I tried to convince her "musta been brown" (typical cougar color)...she swore "no way, it was black"...and that's 1978!!
Go Figure!?

Well.. it's not odd down here!!

Over my life time, I've always thought... "It must have been a dog"... "might have been a bobcat they saw"... "couldn't be a black panther!"
Many reports were from people I've known for a long time.. people who don't lie, or known to tell tells.
But, I was "almost" certain, even with all the sightings.. they must be wrong!

I was the one who was wrong.. I was working night shift and got off work at 11:30. When I drove over a small rise just before getting home, one was in the middle of the road! I first thought it was a large black dog.. it was a large black cat.
Several days latter, I saw it again in the field across the road from my house, about 80 yards away walking the fence line.

 

[TJE]

Makes sense Nugs, question though. Wouldn't cubs born here in the wild, and from wild parents!...be considered "native", since being born and living out their lives here?...just not the same dna as from the "Eastern".

 

[flyadive]

My kind of cougar !

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Are cougars roaming our woods? - Allentown Outdoorsman | Examiner.com

Are cougars roaming our woods?

Cougar habitats once stretched from South America into Canada. Today, they roam freely in southern Florida and the American West. Mountain lions are known to live in reproducing populations in parts of western North and South Dakota, far western Nebraska, eastern Colorado and Kansas, far western Oklahoma, and the western third of Texas west to the Pacific coast. It is also believed that there are small reproducing populations in Michigan and the Ozarks. There have even been sightings in Illinois. In fact, there have been documented reports of cougars by trained observers in every state east of the Mississippi River.

The Pennsylvania Game Commission has no evidence of wild, breeding populations of large cats in Pennsylvania. There have been plenty of reported sightings by respectable people, one game commission officer told me, so it is possible they are out there. But there is no verified proof.

 

[Higgy]

Dang, it really makes you wonder when you're in the woods at "0" dark thirty. Sitting up against a tree to call turkey at daybreak... yoi.

Yeah, no joke. Either call in a cougar looking for a tasty turkey treat, or a pack of coyotes.

 

[Nugs Bunny]

Makes sense Nugs, question though. Wouldn't cubs born here in the wild, and from wild parents!...be considered "native", since being born and live out their lives here?...just not the same dna as from the "Eastern".

No they would not be considered "native" they would be considered "invasive" and it is highly unlikely there will ever be cubs born into the wild here in the East.

The reason being is female cougars tend to stay where they are. Male cougars are known to travel great distances. A single male may require up to 175 square miles of territory for its home range.

Whitetailed deer where hunted to near extinction in the 1800's in the East, the cougar population started killing livestock which resorted to bounties placed on the big cat. Lack of prey and hunters are what drove the Eastern Cougar to extinction.

It's very likely male cougars from the mid west could seek new hunting ground due to population increases.

 

[TJE]

No they would not be considered "native" they would be considered "invasive" and it is highly unlikely there will ever be cubs born into the wild here in the East.

The reason being is female cougars tend to stay where they are. Male cougars are known to travel great distances. A single male may require up to 175 square miles of territory for its home range.

Whitetailed deer where hunted to near extinction in the 1800's in the East, the cougar population started killing livestock which resorted to bounties placed on the big cat. Lack of prey and hunters are what drove the Eastern Cougar to extinction.

It's very likely male cougars from the mid west could seek new hunting ground due to population increases.

Well, all I know is..for the last 35 years I've crossed their paths (tracks)/scat/screams and yes 'Kills' Fresh whitetail deer. One big 8 point buck always stayed in my memory...he put up a "hell of a fight" in the battle ground evidence surrounding his fresh body with just part of the arse-end consumed, believe I had spooked the cat on it..Sooner or later someone will get pics/vid of cubs or..momma with cubs!...guaranteed!

 

[Nugs Bunny]

One would never expect to come across an African Lion, Bengal Tiger, Grizzly Bear or Baboon in Ohio but back in 2011 in Zanesville Ohio there were 49 wild exotic animals loose, including 18 Bengal tigers, 17 lions, six black bears, a pair of grizzlies, three mountain lions, two wolves and a baboon.

Ohio Man Kills Self, Sets Cheetahs And Tigers Free | KSBW Home - KSBW Home

Ohio Man Kills Self, Sets Cheetahs And Tigers Free

Large exotic animals, including cheetahs, wolves, tigers, lions and bears, were on the loose in eastern Ohio after their owner set them free before killing himself on his farm, investigators said. Farm and wild animal preserve owner Terry Thompson died from a self-inflicted wound, Muskingum County Sheriff Matt Lutz said Wednesday.
Before he shot himself, Thompson opened the animals' gates and fences at Muskingum County Animal Farm so they would get out, the sheriff said.
Deputies found Thompson's body on Tuesday when they went to the farm on reports of dangerous wild animals running free.
Deputies found themselves in a volatile situation when they spent the night hunting down and shooting to death most of the nearly 50 animals.
"It's like Noah's ark, like, wrecking right here in Zanesville, Ohio," said Jack Hanna, former director of the Columbus Zoo. "Noah's ark filled with tigers and lions and all leopards and a few monkeys and whatever, and it crashes here and all of a sudden they're out there."
Schools closed and motorists were warned to stay in their vehicles as officers with assault rifles hunted Wednesday. Flashing signs along area highways told motorists, "Caution exotic animals" and "Stay in vehicle."
Law enforcement officials said Wednesday afternoon they had accounted for all but one -- a monkey was still on the loose.

The area where this happened is highly populated and provides little natural cover. Had this happened where I live they would still be rounding them up because of the terrain and large forests. It just goes to show you never know what you will run into out in the woods.

Cougars are present in the East, there are confirmed cases, they are just not the Eastern Cougar. It's highly likely the Western species is re establishing in Eastern portions of the US. The number of confirmed sightings in the East are on the rise and there are breeding sites just a few States away from PA. The Florida Panther is another sub species and there is a breeding population.

I'm replying with an unbiased answer based on what information is available, not my personal opinion, I'm no biologist lol. My opinion won't even get one a cup of coffee! My own personal opinion varies from what can be been determined from the evidence available, that's why I left it out lol.

My opinion is that, eventually these cats will seek out new territory as their populations increase and there is only one place for them to go... the East. At one point the Eastern Cougar was the most abundant large mammal in America, the territory is prime and perfectly suited to these majestic cats.

If a wild male Western Cougar mated with an escaped pet female Western Cougar in the Appalachians chances are they would not only survive, they would propagate and become established. But there is very little evidence from credible sources to prove it, and no reported cases of cubs or pregnant wild females (Not talking about WV women, lol.) I did find one source that supported that theory, but several that contradicted it.

Cougars in the Appalachian Mountains

LIVING WITH COUGARS IN THE APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS

Some biologists and mountain people believe that a few native eastern cougars may have survived.[SIZE=+0][SUP]5[/SUP][/SIZE] In addition, there is evidence that cougars obtained elsewhere as pets have escaped or been released.[SIZE=+0][SUP]6[/SUP][/SIZE] State and federal wildlife authorities now agree that at least some cougars are living wild in the Appalachians, although the origin of these animals is uncertain.

Mountain People... sounds so much nicer than "Hillbilly" doesn't it? I guess that's the PC term for us Hillbillies!!!

 

[TJE]

One would never expect to come across an African Lion, Bengal Tiger, Grizzly Bear or Baboon in Ohio but back in 2011 in Zanesville Ohio there were 49 wild exotic animals loose, including 18 Bengal tigers, 17 lions, six black bears, a pair of grizzlies, three mountain lions, two wolves and a baboon.



The area where this happened is highly populated and provides little natural cover. Had this happened where I live they would still be rounding them up because of the terrain and large forests. It just goes to show you never know what you will run into out in the woods.

Cougars are present in the East, there are confirmed cases, they are just not the Eastern Cougar. It's highly likely the Western species is re establishing in Eastern portions of the US. The number of confirmed sightings in the East are on the rise and there are breeding sites just a few States away from PA. The Florida Panther is another sub species and there is a breeding population.

I'm replying with an unbiased answer based on what information is available, not my personal opinion, I'm no biologist lol. My opinion won't even get one a cup of coffee! My own personal opinion varies from what can be been determined from the evidence available, that's why I left it out lol.

My opinion is that, eventually these cats will seek out new territory as their populations increase and there is only one place for them to go... the East. At one point the Eastern Cougar was the most abundant large mammal in America, the territory is prime and perfectly suited to these majestic cats.

If a wild male Western Cougar mated with an escaped pet female Western Cougar in the Appalachians chances are they would not only survive, they would propagate and become established. But there is very little evidence from credible sources to prove it, and no reported cases of cubs or pregnant wild females (Not talking about WV women, lol.) I did find one source that supported that theory, but several that contradicted it.



Mountain People... sounds so much nicer than "Hillbilly" doesn't it? I guess that's the PC term for us Hillbillies!!!

LOL. Didn't get me a coffee Nugs....But did..a nice tall cold Molson Canadian! Cheers neighbour!!