Peglegs Black Gold Nuggets

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Come on guys! OP ONLY MEANS ONE THING (especially when referring to Field Artillery):

OBSERVATION POST!

It's where they sit sit and watch the places the arty rounds hit. From there, they correct fire on the fly.

If this was on 29 Palms, it's most likely at the South end of the Bullion Mts. There is a very large impact area there.

Best-Mike

 

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[Oroblanco]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

HOLA mi amigo Mike, - and I agree, this was mentioned above, reply #141. Not often when I can do that!

 

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

HOLA mi amigo Mike, - and I agree, this was mentioned above, reply #141. Not often when I can do that!

Jeez! Ijust skipped right past that post. Sorry. We do agree however.

Boogeyman,

I know. I will just say that I had a long talk with Dr. Roy Roush, and found out a few things I didn't know before. I also won't go into detail as he is no longer with us. I do use the San Sebastian Marsh Massacre Story, though, because not only was it in his book, but in a couple of issues of a couple of treasure Mags, along with pics of him at the site with MD in hand. Can't really dispute that. Also becuse of a secondary verification; a few years ago a guy riding his Quadrunner in the San Sebastian Marsh Area flipped over and cut his arm on something. When he dug that something out of the sand, it was a gold box with a crucifix inside. Saw that article in some newspaper.

Happy Easter-Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

HOLA mi amigo Mike,

Gollum wrote:

Jeez! Ijust skipped right past that post.

Dang, my posts must be getting REALLY boring!

I had not heard of the Marsh Massacre story - would you mind posting a synopsis? (Or where to find it?) Thank you in advance,
your friend - Oroblanco

HAPPY EASTER TOO!

 

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

No problem;

1812 a group of Spanish Renegade Soldiers put their boat ashore near Oceanside, Ca. They head inland and South raiding missions, towns, and such all the way down into Mexico. On their way back, they had 10 Oxcarts full of gold, silver, etc.

At or near the border, they raided a Yaqui Indian Village while the braves were away. When they returned, they headed out after the Spaniards. Caught them at San Sebastian Marsh (between Ocotillo Wells and the Salton Sea). Massacred them all but three whom they caught up with and killed around Indio.

One story has the indians burning the oxcarts and burying the loot on the spot (which I believe), and the other has the Indians carrying the loot off into the mountains. The grand prize of the loot is supposed to be a solid gold crucifix about 5' X 3' X 3" thick. Supposed to take a dozen men to lift it.

Now the entire area is a Wilderness Area at the Eastern End of Anza-Borrego Desert State Park.

Best-Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Thank you Mike, interesting story to say the least! Is it safe to presume you have researched this (hence your support) and found confirmatory information?
Roy

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

hello all,
Oro check reply #63-66 in this thread about the san Sebastion massacre. I've been out there looking around.. didn't find anything though....

PLL

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

HIO CUB: A side thingie our Cu property in the piedras verdes copper area has the oxidized Cu showing on the surface rocks...it almost looks like soot, but it doesn't brush off. A simple acid test with a piece of clean iron (a nail in this case ) quickly becomes coated with Cu.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Hey all,
Thought you guys might want to look at this video about Pegleg. He does a good job in promoting the story, but some of what he says is not " totally " accurate. The video production is pretty good, content.....weeelllllll

http://www.desertusa.com/video_pages/ocotillo_wells2.html

PLL

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

hey all,
This " may " be VERY VERY important... and then again it may be not... I was looking at the Mormon Battalion info and came across a man by the name John G Smith. Why is this important ?? Simple, H E W Wilson quoted an article that he had read about a John O Smith who was a guide out of Yuma. So I was wondering... wouldn't a military veteran make a GREAT guide.
"Hello sir are you looking to get to San Diego or LA ?"
" yes "
" Well my name is John Smith and I was a member of the Mormon Battalion and know every inch of this land... "
etc etc.
If I was from the east I would have known about the Mormon Battalion and it's great feat. Oh yes... I would trust him.. After all he and his boys cut through Box Canyon with just hand tools !!!!!!
I just hope the guy had a pegleg..

PLL

 

[mountaindigger]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Greetings fellow black nugget hunters. I also have been hunting the nuggets in the desert for several years and have perhaps avoided some of you at one time or the other. I hunt in the mountains in the summer and the desert in the winter. I believe there are several locations and they are related to the ancient river of gold. I have been to many of the areas in So Cal and find the minerals to be consistent in each location. I ran across this on the web and wanted to post it as a possibility of more information.

Sunflower Springs, California - Peg Leg Smith Rock: Baseline for Lost Peg Leg Gold
I just read your story on the Peg Leg Smith Monument. My wife's Dad had a cabin in the California desert in Sunflower Springs. There is a large rock about 1/4 mile from the cabin. Carved on the face of it is the inscription: "Peg Leg Smith Zalias, Springs 1854."
Peg Leg Smith had wandered into Warner Springs in late 1854 with gold nuggets the size of a fist in the saddle bags on his horse. He told those who found him suffering from dehydration that he found the gold nuggets in the Old Woman Mountains near Essex. He also told them that he had carved his name on a rock where he could see the location of his gold looking away from the rock. The gold was where you could see three buttes looking away from the rock and it was just laying on top of the ground. No one believed him because no one had ever found gold nuggets in The Old Woman Mountains. The statue of the Old Woman for whom the mountain range is named can also be seen from this inscription. The rock is located southeast of the cabin and the letters are about 5-6 feet tall.
If this information leads you to the lost gold I want my share of the findings. [Ralph Amet, 01/09/2008]

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Hi Ralph,
Welcome to Tnet....... Zalias huh.... I have not come across that name but the year seems about right. As I'm sure you know, there were several " pegleg's " in the area. I'm interested in why he was that far north ?? Most people but him in Anza Borrego area or possibly the Chocolate Mts. I have heard of a " few " stories with him that far north, however, what path was he on ? and why would he go from there to Warner's Ranch- so far south-. Sounds like it might be a crossover from the Lost Arch story...

PLL

 

[Old Dog]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

PLL,
I think you may be correct.
If we can get Roy back to confirm it we could be on the right track.

I sure have been enjoying this thread.
thanks guys.

Thom

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

hey gang,
I'll throw another monkey wrench into it... I met a guy at the --deleted--go pow wow, and was suppose to meet him this morning at Pala Mission. He was a no show but I did meet some interesting people. One of which said, that Pegleg's Mom was involved in a shoot out in Valley Center ( a city near San Diego ). He said it was his family and Pegs that was involved. Anyway he's going to copy the newspaper article and email it to me. When I have it I'll post it. I asked him what year did it happen and he said late 1800's or very early 1900's. This " may " shed some light on the angle I have been saying that Thomas L Smith was NOT the pegleg of legend. My contention is that Pegs was a guide out of Yuma and a outlaw, and that's why there hasn't been much " proven " material available. If one is a successful outlaw -and always on the run-, then there would be little " truth " written about them ( except for the ones who wanted fame- James brothers etc. ). I hope to get the article soon... we'll see...

PLL

 

[mountaindigger]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Greetings again,
PLL I must apologize for the confusion. Ralph is the author of the Sunflower Springs message. http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/17223

I do know there were several “Peglegs” spoken of and in my opinion many more stories attributed to him or them that should not have been. Many times on this forum it is stressed about the accuracy of the information and to always go back to the original source. I have done some far-reaching studies and found history to pass down erroneous stories entwined with lies, sketchy information, embellishments, and even the kitchen sink thrown in for good measure. Even two people witnessing the same thing will have differing stories. So much for trusting any of these stories.

Why was he that far north? This happens to be part of the old Spanish trail that was used on a regular basis. (http://www.oldspanishtrailcentennial.com/Gallery/Gallery.htm and click on the AAA map from 1926. Part of the trail follows hwy 40 or closer to the train tracks. From Bannock he probably cut through Sunflower Springs to save time to Amboy. Why he traveled to Warner’s Ranch from there if he did is something I am not able to answer. Also notice the trail from Yuma goes to Descanso following hwy 8 and does not follow the De Anza trail which goes up through Anza Borrego. Might be a new twist for you mappers.

As far as Anza Borrego and the Chocolate Mountain areas, these are included in the Peninsular Range of mountains in So Cal and into Mexico. Nuggets have been found in most parts of the range more so in some places than others. Most reports are on hill tops some in washes. These nuggets have one thing in common, they all have been tumbling in a river at one time or another. Absent the black casing they look identical to the nuggets found in the Great Blue Lead.

My place of employment is a magnet for Native Americans that need work. Not being one to let an opportunity pass by, I often inquire about gold in and around the reservations. They are cautious in what they speak, but have told me nuggets are still being collected on several of the reservations. Most of them are more concerned about their checks from the casinos or when is our res putting a casino in. I am also told that when the Indians discovered the value of gold they collected these black nuggets and stashed them, thus the stories of lost mines and the absence of nuggets where they should be.

PLL I certainly would be interested in seeing the article.

More to follow.

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

hey gang,
OK maybe I can shed a little light on this. The most " noted " Peg is Thomas L Smith, he was a trapper, explorer, guide, drunk and liar. There I said it..LOL He was on route to La with George " Dutch " Yount in a area that is now Lake Havasu. The truth behind the story is, that one morning, old Dutch went exploring and found what he called " native copper ". Years later when the gold rush hit, peg used this in combination with the desert story and " sold " his version for food, booze or anything he could get. He was a REAL professional thief, used to steal horse's from " non whites " and sold them to points east. He and Chief Walkara stole 1000's of horse's and ran them up the Cajon pass. So I would say that THIS Smith was familiar with the Old Spanish Trail. But he is NOT the REAL Smith that found the black nuggets- this is my belief-.The Smith that I am chasing may have been part of the Mormon Battalion. There was a John G Smith and he " may " be a candidate but then there are others as well. Recently I was out near where I think the Butte's are and am trying to get closer, but, It's nearly on top of the Carrizo Impact Area.




Take a close look to the left, and you will see " buttes " 3 of them. Take a close look at the right, and you will see a " spur " of the ridge which is another clue. But look in the middle and you will see a area that " I think " that one would climb to find out where he is after a bad sandstorm. Here is a Google Earth pix of the area, if you look at the left you will see the buttes as well ( with ? ) and the spur on the right and the center section too ( all with ? ). In the back you will see " badlands " noted with white arrows. The stage route is in front with blue placemarks.



You will also note the blackness of these hills, and no I haven't been there-yet- but I will get as close as I can. This area used to be a old WWII bombing range and still has TONS of unexploded ordnance, which is also why I think it hasn't been found, and it could be scattered to the four winds by now as well. There is lava in the area which may attribute a little to the gold theory too. Anyway That's a little to chew on. I have been on this trail since I got into the " craft " ( not a hobby ) and I will stay with it until I can find a couple of nuggets or die LOL....

Have fun people
PLL

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

BTW... is the Smith carving clear ? I mean " could " it mean 1834 and not 1854 ?? has anyone taken a picture of it ??

PLL

 

[gollum]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

Hey PLL,

Are you talking about Superstition Mountain? I think we have been through this before.

I was around on the Military Side of the MT. I hit the washes and hilltops of Superstition Mt with metal detectors (except where there were manned observation buildings). NO GOLD! Only Danger Signs:

Best-Mike

 

[mountaindigger]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

I have not been out there to see the carving yet. Looks like a good place to get shot in the back by some crazy. Posted are Google pics of the three buttes and the top of one seems to have some extensive grading about 2 tenths of a mile.

If my 300x binoculars come in soon I may get up the courage for the trip.

MD

 

[pegleglooker]

Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

hey gang,
First of all to Gollum.... We REALLY need to go out together and " explore ". I would be willing to pay for the fuel... That's how SERIOUS I am....If you are out close to the Superstitions, and are in the recovery area there is a shot up building... I was past that. If you go back to the " road " ( that has the power lines ) and head towards Fishcreek and then verve left, you will see my buttes. I went off Wheeler to Superstitons. To mountaindigger if you get close enough with your new benoxs and can take a pix... I would LOVE to see it. I have posted this before, but I have a ton of personal research from Philip Bailey ( the author of Golden Mirages ). He did research for his book for 20 years before it was printed in 1941. He had ( in my opinion ) as close to the real source as one can get. He lived in a time when " maybe " someone would have been still alive to remember the actual trip or heard it first hand. As is in this excerpt from his book:


( The above pic was taken from Golden Mirages 1941. Knowles who have been between 56-76 yrs of age during Bailey's research. But It's obvious that it was taken later )

Bailey quotes a Charles Knowles who was born in 1865 and was about 20 at the time he re-met a man named Price. he's the story:

" I don't you suppose you remember me. You was too young to remember much of anything; but my boy saved your life when you was a kid. My name is Price, an' I'll bet your name is Knowles."
This casual meeting grew into a real friendship and later a partnership. Price and Knowles wintered together at a camp near Cour d' Alene (Idaho) and prospected whenever the weather permitted, and it was there that Knowles first heard the story of the Lost Pegleg Mine. It seemed that, about 30 years before ( that would be 1855 ), Price and a man named Pegleg Smith had acted as guides to parties crossing the Colorado Desert from Yuma to Warner's and the coast; but about a month before Pegleg found the mine, Price quit his job as guide and got work in LA. It was there that Pegleg, on his next trip in, showed him the nuggets and told him how he had found them.
He said he had left Yuma with a small party and headed for Warner's by the usual route through Carrizo and Vallecito. They made about 2/3 of the distance to Carrizo without mishap and camped for the night on New River, a few miles east of the Slough Lakes ( which would be Fig Lagoon today ). They planned to make a early start the next morning and reach Carrizo before it became to dark, as there was little moonlight. However, the mules wandered off, and the party was more than 2 hours late getting under way.
About the middle of the afternoon Smith saw they were in for a bad sandstorm, and a hour later it was blowing so hard they could hardly make headway against it. It was almost impossible to keep to the trail, for the blow-sand covered it up or blew away all traces of it in less than a 1/2 hour. The line of the mountains ahead was completely lost,and even the gap to Carriso was so badly blurred that Smith was not sure they were headed for it. In Instead of letting up as it began to get dark, the wind blew harder. At last it quieted a little; but it was not until they began to ascend a gradual slope that kept getting steeper that Smith knew for certain they were off course. They had wandered into one of those long, ramp-like canyons north of the trail they should have followed.
Smith told the party to wait where they were and he would go up a little higher to see if the could cross the hills instead of back-tracking through the sand. He climbed up the ramp for some distance to a small butte; it looked as though it sat on a ridge, so he went to the top. hoping he would get a better view of the country. But all he saw was Bad Lands and would have to take the long way into Carriso. While up there he noticed that the ridge was sort of hog-back made of 3 or 4 buttes connected by saddles.
"Well," Smith told Price, " I started down the shortest way but I stepped on alot o' loose stones that covered the hull hill, an' if I hadn't dug my pegleg into the rocks I'd slid clear to the bottom. When I started again, watchin' where I was goin', I noticed that the stones I stepped on were kinda queer lookin'. They was all round stones, big as walnuts and black as ink, I never saw nothin', like 'em before, so I put a few in my pocket an' went back to the party."
"Late in the evening' we got to Carriso. ( if it took " all day " to get there.. then just how far away were they? ) We was pretty well used up, an' by the time I had 'em all taken care of I was so tired I jugs' rolled in my blanket and went to sleep. I t wasn't till we was well on our way to Vallecito the next day that I had time to look at my black stones. At first they looked like jus' common black rocks; but when I knocked a couple of 'em together, a coatin' of varnish come off, an' I saw they was pretty near pure gold!... I'm goin' back an' try to find the place soon as I can, although I ain't sure how north I was. We had to plod through the sand for hours in the dark, an' it ain't possible to say how fur off the course we was."
It's these " clues " from someone who not only knew pegs but rode and worked with him, that lead me where I go. Please understand that this area is in the Carrizo Impact area and YOU SHOULD NOT TRY TO EXPLORE THIS AREA PERIOD !!!!! ( there are things there that have not blown up yet )There is also the fact that due to the bombing runs in this area it have been blown any and everywhere. The pixs I took are of this area and I NEED to get closer, I have a " idea " of where they " may " be and I'm all for headed out.
The reason I go with this story is, all of the other books ( that talk about pegleg ) quote a earlier author of another treasure book and again and again. Bailey is the only one who does NOT quote another author... But quotes the people... and yes I'm aware that it " may or may not " be true... but it just makes sense to me. A guide would stick to his route and go the same way all the time. It's safer and the path is well known.

Thankx for reading
PLL