Pauline Innis

[bigscoop]

Pauline Innis

Theories, sometimes we lose sight of what our theories actually conclude. In her book Pauline Innis makes claim that during her research and investigations into the Beale story that she had witnessed to the iron box and its contents, a pretty deciding claim, to say the least. Now obviously if she did actually see the iron box and its contents then this lends an incredible amount of credibility to the story, but did she actually see these items, or was she simply lying in order to add more credibility to the story and her book?

I, for one, believe that Innis fabricated her witnessing of the iron box and its contents but I only base this conclusion upon the fact that she failed to document the event in the form of pictures, which she claims wasn't permitted, yet she does manage one image of some random numbers on a piece of torn paper that is contrary to her claim that pictures weren't allowed. Maybe she was telling the truth, maybe she wasn't? Lacking all manner of evidence except her word who can really say for sure? However, when forming theories this circumstance is something that must be taken into account, and here's why.

“The Beale Pamphlet was a complete work of fiction.” As some have just recently, and quite painfully learned, the laying of this conclusion is to also lay claim that Innis was a fraud in her claims that she saw the iron box and its contents. Of course this is also a direct attack on the credibility and character of Pauline Innis who, from what I can tell, was highly respected in her community. So what do you think, did Pualine Innis actually see the iron box and its contents or was she simply making fraudulent claim in support of the story and the sale of her image and book? Or, is it possible that Pauline Innis was duded into only thinking that she was seeing the real iron box and contents, the possibility of the fraud then being passed onto those who showed her the fraudulent box and contents? Were they credible people? What you say about the situation?

 

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[releventchair]

Were pictures not allowed a sketch could be made from recollection with rough dimensions.
Telling folks pictures were not allowed, yet not providing a drawn and written detail description of box makes it possibly too vague to believe. Or simply not considered important by her...
The risk being a competing box if one was presented and declared the original.
If fiction she had free reign to describe/draw/detail box all she wanted.
If she was not sure it was false she may have been wary of too much detail, fearing a truer version may surface.
Maybe she too was a fence rider on the subject.



.

 

[bigscoop]

Were pictures not allowed a sketch could be made from recollection with rough dimensions.
Telling folks pictures were not allowed, yet not providing a drawn and written detail description of box makes it possibly too vague to believe. Or simply not considered important by her...
The risk being a competing box if one was presented and declared the original.
If fiction she had free reign to describe/draw/detail box all she wanted.
If she was not sure it was false she may have been wary of too much detail, fearing a truer version may surface.
Maybe she too was a fence rider on the subject.



.

No doubt it is a tough call to make as her account is the only evidence outside of the story that confirms the existence of the iron box and its contents.

 

[ECS]

The iron box, ciphers, and the two scraps of paper with written numbers that Pauline Innis claimed she observed was in the possession of the Otey family.
Clayton Hart's wife was an Otey, and the Oteys are part of that Risqué extended family bloodline.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Don't y'all know that there are TWO versions of her book, GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE...? The MASS MARKET hard-back and a PAPER-BACK with a GOLD cover...? The "GOLD" has MORE info about the HART BROS.! I have it in my basement; will have to look for it & review, AGAIN!

 

[bigscoop]

The iron box, ciphers, and the two scraps of paper with written numbers that Pauline Innis claimed she observed was in the possession of the Otey family.
Clayton Hart's wife was an Otey, and the Oteys are part of that Risqué extended family bloodline.

But did she actually see them? Not too good for your theory if she did, or if they existed and were in the Otey possession, unless of course they were frauds. What you say, fraud or fact?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Don't y'all know that there are TWO versions of her book, GOLD IN THE BLUE RIDGE...? The MASS MARKET hard-back and a PAPER-BACK with a GOLD cover...? The "GOLD" has MORE info about the HART BROS.! I have it in my basement; will have to look for it & review, AGAIN!

I found the GOLD cover book, yesterday; typed a LONG "reply" last night; NOT here, today. My Special Edition indicated she DID have the BOX at her Watergate Apt. in DC. She had a copy of a letter from DIRECTOR Richard Helms (CIA), stating the ciphers were "unbreakable". In the GOLD cover Special Edition, there are copies of MAPS, Copies of TJB letters, the ciphers, AND! a hand-written page of various NUMBERS in a "weird" manner, similar to the Drills Holes found on a boulder on a over-look on the BRP... looking over the ROANOKE VALLEY; MORE later... BTW, I think franklin ALSO had a GOLD Cover/Special Edition version of this book; dunno.

 

[ECS]

...

I, for one, believe that Innis fabricated her witnessing of the iron box and its contents...

If this is what you believe, what's up will the semantic game you keep trying to draw me into?

 

[bigscoop]

If this is what you believe, what's up will the semantic game you keep trying to draw me into?

It's not semantics, not at all. You believe, and quite aggressively so, that Ward fabricated the entire tale. Problem is, we do have record of the iron box and contents, this being confirmed by someone who was/is considered to be a local expert on the subject with a good reputation. I'm just curious, in all of your research, how you've managed to conclusively rule out this local expert's claim? Was there something hidden in Grandpa Risque's fabulous library that confirms your wild and desperate speculation and assumption?

Point is, as far as you know she could have very well seen the real iron box and contents, just as she claims? Seems to me it would do your theory further good if you would just tell us how you managed to prove that she was wrong? And this is just one item that needs cleared up.

 

[ECS]

Once again, Scoop, I have not commented on Pauline Innis, nor will I, to satisfy your baiting.
On the other hand, Justintime has claimed to have found an iron box with the marked DOI that is the key to the Beale codes.
Two claims, two iron boxes, are both related to the Beale story?
You stated that you "believe that Innis fabricated her witnessing the iron box and its contents...", so what is your belief on Justintime's iron box and DOI?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Working on "follow-up" to "Post" # 7...

 

[bigscoop]

Once again, Scoop, I have not commented on Pauline Innis, nor will I, to satisfy your baiting.
On the other hand, Justintime has claimed to have found an iron box with the marked DOI that is the key to the Beale codes.
Two claims, two iron boxes, are both related to the Beale story?
You stated that you "believe that Innis fabricated her witnessing the iron box and its contents...", so what is your belief on Justintime's iron box and DOI?

There's no baiting here, you have determined the Innis claim to be false, as a matter of fact. Just curious what evidence you have that has caused you to arrive at this "conclusive" conclusion? Truth is you don't have any, just like you have absolutely no conclusive evidence that Ward wrote the Beale Papers or that it had anything at to with Risque or his bloodline, just a bunch of local lore and romance conveniently piled up in complete speculative fashion in support of a pet theory. Clay, Coles, Witcher, Jackson, Marshall, were not all in the Risque bloodline. There is absolutely zero evidence to even suggest that Ward even had the skills to write such a story, heck, his daughter wasn't even certain. And so on and so on, you're just black & white guessing and picking and choosing from all of the lore and romance surrounding the legend. Complete fiction, and yet you won't, can't, even deny that Innis saw the iron box and contents. You call all of this, semantics.

 

[ECS]

There's no baiting here, you have determined the Innis claim to be false, as a matter of fact...

This is entering a high level nonsense, Scoop.
Please for the sake of other readers, post the thread where you claim I determined Pauline Innis's claim to be false.
If it is a "matter of fact" is should prove an easy task.
If you can not, which will be the conclusion, please cease and desist with attributing claims about Pauline Innis that I NEVER made.

 

[releventchair]

Justintime scores with a finding that satisfy's him... I'll cheer to his singing Sweet Home Alabama.

Now, I would for most anyone that does, but Justin sure has a confident enthusiasm that is nearly contagious in his searching.


Ahhh boxes.

 

[ECS]

... Just curious what evidence you have that has caused you to arrive at this "conclusive" conclusion? Truth is you don't have any, just like you have absolutely no conclusive evidence that Ward wrote the Beale Papers or that it had anything at to with Risque or his bloodline, just a bunch of local lore and romance... Clay, Coles, Witcher, Jackson, Marshall, were not all in the Risque bloodline. There is absolutely zero evidence to even suggest that Ward even had the skills to write such a story...

James Beverly Risqué was wounded in a duel by Thomas Beale.
Never claimed Clay , Coles, Witcher, Jackson, and Marshall were part of the Risqué bloodline, but names known to the buying demographic of 1885 Lynchburg.
Max Guggenheimer, who you always neglect to mention, served with Ward's Hutter cousins in the Confederacy, and was a business owner, contemporary with the 1885 publication and the pamphlet was sold at his store.
What evidence suggests that James Beverly Ward lacked the skills to write the Beale Papers?
Ward's cousin, John William Sherman, who printed the job pamphlet and was a jr editor of the newspaper that advertised the work, also wrote plays for the local thespian group. So maybe Ward had help in the composition.
Call it local lore or romance, but the BEALE PAPERS are a LOCAL adventure treasure story with ciphers added as a LOCAL parlor entertainment to a LOCAL buying public.
With all your fantastical history tour of Adams-Onis, Lafitte, Girard, Patterson, Bonaparte, the world famous "Mexico" Sherman, opium trade, pirates, gun runners, slavery, the 2nd Bank and conspiracy of international bankers, you can't prove that the Beale Papers is nothing more than a dime novel that sold for 50 cents.
...and you call my opinion lore and romance.

 

[ECS]

Justintime scores with a finding that satisfy's him... I'll cheer to his singing Sweet Home Alabama.

Now, I would for most anyone that does, but Justin sure has a confident enthusiasm that is nearly contagious in his searching.
Ahhh boxes.

There are always iron boxes and iron pots in all good treasure stories. The Beale tale has both.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

There are always iron boxes and iron pots in all good treasure stories. The Beale tale has both.

YEP! Those Bean Pots had multi-use purposes...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Working on "follow-up" to "Post" # 7...

Pauline was a writer from DC; her husband was Walter Dean Innis (USN), and possilble "spy" for Friedman & company (US Coast Guard, during WW II, then NSA; papers at Marshall Museum at VMI). Pauline got HER "start" on the Beale Treasure AFTER she received a copy of the HART PAPERS by George L. Hart, Sr. SHE & her husband looked for THE TREASURE, too, having "interesting" experiences. They were living at the WATERGATE Apts. (wasn't THAT a "Spy Safe-house"...?)... MORE, later.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Pauline Innis

Theories, sometimes we lose sight of what our theories actually conclude. In her book Pauline Innis makes claim that during her research and investigations into the Beale story that she had witnessed to the iron box and its contents, a pretty deciding claim, to say the least. Now obviously if she did actually see the iron box and its contents then this lends an incredible amount of credibility to the story, but did she actually see these items, or was she simply lying in order to add more credibility to the story and her book?

I, for one, believe that Innis fabricated her witnessing of the iron box and its contents but I only base this conclusion upon the fact that she failed to document the event in the form of pictures, which she claims wasn't permitted, yet she does manage one image of some random numbers on a piece of torn paper that is contrary to her claim that pictures weren't allowed. Maybe she was telling the truth, maybe she wasn't? Lacking all manner of evidence except her word who can really say for sure? However, when forming theories this circumstance is something that must be taken into account, and here's why.

“The Beale Pamphlet was a complete work of fiction.” As some have just recently, and quite painfully learned, the laying of this conclusion is to also lay claim that Innis was a fraud in her claims that she saw the iron box and its contents. Of course this is also a direct attack on the credibility and character of Pauline Innis who, from what I can tell, was highly respected in her community. So what do you think, did Pualine Innis actually see the iron box and its contents or was she simply making fraudulent claim in support of the story and the sale of her image and book? Or, is it possible that Pauline Innis was duded into only thinking that she was seeing the real iron box and contents, the possibility of the fraud then being passed onto those who showed her the fraudulent box and contents? Were they credible people? What you say about the situation?

I do not know about Pualine Innis at all. So this person said they have seen the items before they were burned in the fire in Lynchburg ?
Or are they still in someones hands ?

 

[bigscoop]

I do not know about Pualine Innis at all. So this person said they have seen the items before they were burned in the fire in Lynchburg ?
Or are they still in someones hands ?

Depends on what you want to believe? Pauline Innis was a local researcher of the Beale mystery, wrote a couple of books on the subject, and she claimed to have actually seen the iron box and contents. There is a "rumor" that the box still survives in some estate somewhere but I doubt it.