pareidoliacs vs true trackers

[Shortstack]

i've read the entire thread of 'Basic Signs and Symbols' (and the other thread) and there is nothing there that could have help us decrypt the Spanish rock map. Its full of pie-in-the-sky speculation about photos of this, that, and the other thing. I don't recommend reading it.

YOU don't recommend reading Old Dog's thread on signs and symbols ?? Does rangler know that you are now the heir-apparent expert in signs and symbols ?? Personally, I'll listen to OD's ideas, suggestions, and descriptions before yours and rangler's.........ANY day. That comes from my dislike of anyone who comes out of nowhere and declares the words of a highly knowledgable and trustworthy person to be useless. You chose your words poorly and have lost any real credibility you could have had in this section.

Goodbye.........have a good life.

 

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[Indiana$Dirk]

Just calls them as I sees em.... i not an expert, but I have real experience. We decrypted a 250 year old treasure map. I see lotsa imagination at work here.

 

[Shortstack]

Just calls them as I sees em.... i not an expert, but I have real experience. We decrypted a 250 year old treasure map. I see lotsa imagination at work here.

So, you and your associates figured out ONE map. CONGRATULATIONS !! Good work. Now, after a couple of hundred MORE, you might be up to OD's level............................good LUCK.

 

[Indiana$Dirk]

Has anything been found as a result of any of these fanciful "interpretation's" of these supposed "signs"? Anything at all? There is certainly nothing mentioned about that in these threads. the proof is in the results. I'd be impressed....

 

[poorfarm]

why would anyone post what they find
so spain could try to claim it
or the us gov. if its a kgc find
i dont think anyone is that stupid to post it
if i find something u can bet the cutting torch will be melting it down

 

[Shortstack]

why would anyone post what they find
so spain could try to claim it
or the us gov. if its a kgc find
i dont think anyone is that stupid to post it
if i find something u can bet the cutting torch will be melting it down

PerSACTLY!! The Doc Noss story is proof enough that the U.S. government is a thief of "found treasure". And, don't even get started on the archies backstabbing of folks who have reported finds that the archies coveted. Not only have artifacts been confiscated from the finders, but the areas where found, put off limits to everyone but the "educated".

There are so many examples of why you don't start running you mouth off about things you find. One good 21st century example are many incidents of kicked in doors and armed robbery by those "poor, unfortunate, unemployed street corner hustlers". NO! The number one rule in treasure hunting is KEEP YOUR DAMNED MOUTH SHUT about any finds.

Oh, and there have been photos of finds posted on this forum and then removed. There MIGHT be one or two left posted, but with so many posts being deleted when the new owner took over, there is no guarantee that any of those are still up.

 

[Shortstack]

One more example. Just recently a deep sea salvage and recovery group was ordered by a U.S. court to return all gold and silver items they brought up from a sunken ship that had belonged to Spanish owners. Even though Spain has made NO attempts to find and salvage the ship; they took the company to court an the goodies were ordered returned to them. The ship had, in effect, been abandoned, but the idiot judge sided with Spain.

 

[Indiana$Dirk]

enough

OK. enough of this..... In June of 2006 Arizona Ed posted a photo of a real spanish tresure map. (See: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/31067-any-ideas-what-map-carving-saying.html) This was two years before http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...1075-treasure-marks-signs-diagnosed-here.html and http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-marks-signs/78421-basic-signs-symbols-you-have-found.html threads were even started.

In 2008 my brother and I were introduced to this same Spanish treasure map by a local treasure hunter. (we had not seen Ed's picture here). Over the next 3 to 4 years we decrypted the signs on the map using information in various books on treasure signs that have been discussed here: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...treasure-signs-symbols-shadow-sun-signs.htmlt. We solved the map and found the cache locations (although they had previously been plundered). See https://docs.google.com/file/d/1ahqeH_MGv9Sj6YeS1n8nU5ioUMHMBk5dhM4np_PNibnDWSKxgrAin6dN4Osa/edit

My point is this, during the 2 years since Ed's posting plus the 4 years since those threads were started, not one those persons who offer their special insight into treasure signs has attempted to interpret the real spanish map that Ed posted. I see two options, 1. Either they don't know what they are talking about, or 2. They do know, but they are deliberatly keeping everyone else in the dark. Either way, there is no reason why I should trust anything said in those two threads on treasure signs.

 

[poorfarm]

does a gambler tell you how he cheats
does a magician tell his secrets
does a mime talk
no
no
no

 

[mdog]

My point is this, during the 2 years since Ed's posting plus the 4 years since those threads were started, not one those persons who offer their special insight into treasure signs has attempted to interpret the real spanish map that Ed posted. I see two options, 1. Either they don't know what they are talking about, or 2. They do know, but they are deliberatly keeping everyone else in the dark. Either way, there is no reason why I should trust anything said in those two threads on treasure signs.

I read your story about how you figured out the map and it was very interesting. From what I remember, the figures on your map showed terrain features that couldn't be interpreted unless you are right there at the site and able to view the surrounding area. Because of that, I think that would make your map almost impossible to interpret on a forum such as this. I've seen some of the signs described by Old Dog and Rangler out in the woods where I live, but there are other things mixed in with them that show terrain features that are unique to this spot. Things that they couldn't interpret unless they were here.

Have you ever looked at Okietreasurehunter's blog. If you look back through the archives, Ron has a lot of articles that describe how carvings are used to show terrain features. Treasure Hunting

 

[rangler]

mdog,
you are a voice of reason*, in a forum mostly filled with graffiti readers, disinformationalists, cloud readers and the very paranoid that think the truth about signs are filled with brainwashing techniques~! however misplaced still very disturbing.....

oro for the worthy
rangler

god bless the newbie who comes armed with common sense and true curosity - as they are the hope for the future of treasure hunting..

"*in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king"

 

[rangler]

The reason that I rail against the pareidoliac and the graffiti readers is that not only are they lost - they tend to pull others in to the quicksand that is cloud reading. IT is a cu de sac, not a trail or track. What has been demonstrated here over the last few years that some folks get lost, quite naturally, I might ad, nothing to be ashamed of here, as I have been lead off track by illusions purposfully laid down by the codemakers, to miss lead everyone, who tries to follow the true signs...however getting stuck inside paredolia is the real sin. expecially when there are a few of us - who are more than happy to point out the true signs that can be confirmed, so that all may proceed on the correct true trail.


now getting is lost is one thing, but to be stuck inside pareidolia and try to tell yourself and others that "if I see it it must be there~!" kinda thinking is stinking thinking....soon after what develops is that the lost persons ego is now wrapped around their thinking, and they will not see the true signs and reject the graffiti, instead they try very hard to argue the points...and try to make it real when it is just the oppisite...it is un real and untrue, but they despartly want other to agree with them, so as to prove their misguided points of view..so sad really that pareidolia is contagious and is deadly to your chances of ever recovering anything at all...even your own self respect.

Some hide behind being an armchair th'r others that read clouds reject true signs, and say " well even if they are not real...they lead me to the same place" and that place is pareidodliaville...where all is lies and misdirected, misread signs and symbols.

not onlly have we lost these folks to grafitti madness, they cling harder and harder to their misbeliefs - they pull others


off the true trail and into the alterworld of graffiti and cloud reading. The confusion is compounded when these princes of pareidolia start to "interpet" the graffiti to actually mean someting....like it was real...self proclaimed pareidoliac who pontificate the meanins of random natural camoflage are the biggest danger to the sport of treasure hunting...

No one should listern to or take the advice off graffiti readers, as the skill of reading signs and marks made by the codemakers is "focus" and by looking at graffiti one can l ose the focus that is really critical in reading real true signs..

focus is the key to breaking the code, one normal focus must change in order to actually "see" the real signs and marks..
I know thisto be true not only inmy own journey, but I have taught a number of people how to focus differently in order to see the ral true signs...in fact it is a natual occourance once you see the real true signs, folks have the tendancy to see signs everywhere, in everything, - my own experience is that you have to "pull back anduse some "discrimination" in order to stay on the true path...what aids the discrimination is "confirmation" of the signs...as the codemakers knew that everyone would get lost in the maze that is graffiti...and more than a few here are trapped foreven in that maze.

My only intent, after tryingng for years to save these folks from paredoliaville, is to keep others especially newbies from wandering off the TRUE trail..

The code can be broken, I have done it my self, although it took almost 25 years and countless miles on the trail to do so, it can never be done living in pareidoliaville..S

So the moral to the story is to reject graffiti readers - as their information is dis-information~!
IT matter not that this data is not "intentional" it is still wrong, very wrong....

Also watch out for the delibarte misinformation agents here, who purposfully try to disuade you about the Spanish/Jesuit Codemakers - on purpose or accidental the result is still the same, they have lead you on a false trail that will make you doubt your ability~! Listen to them not. Use your own common sense and logic, use discrimination and confirmation, keep good notes, do your won research and if you get stuck on something, Old Dog and I are here to help you get back on the right track..
via con dios
oro for the worthy
rangler

 

[desertmoons]

others that read clouds reject true signs, and say " well even if they are not real...they lead me to the same place"

Honestly rangler we have known each other more or less for about 8 to 9 years. I'm a little heartbroken you do not recall who said that. But what you infer here, is.. I find some signs (graffiti to you as you have not run across them..or do not know them) and because they are not in your canon of Spanish signs I should ignore them even though they lead to other stuff. I do not recall ever rejecting a true sign that was so kindly and generously pointed out to me by the knowledgeable ones.

Spanish graffitti or fluff is out there..that's for sure. The art work is amazing and is a treasure in itself. Some of that "graffitti" so vehemently railed against is not Spanish and definitely not fluff.

I doubt anyone knows all the signs symbols and methods, though there are a few people that have a fairly good handle on many aspects of it. I will agree looking for the traditional "known" signs is a good thing to do. Who would disagree with that lol.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

[rangler]

"Spanish graffitti or fluff is out there..that's for sure. The art work is amazing and is a treasure in itself. Some of that "graffitti" so vehemently railed against is not Spanish and definitely not fluff."

yes Kim, it has been that long, and I enjoyed your point of view, however romantic, your assumptions have been,
I saw you as the newbie you were and I thought that your had every chance to develop your skills as you progressed,
I especially liked you sense of "intuition" or sixth sense..and had very high hopes for you...however a certain pareidolic ,present here, tried to be a help to you, it seems but he lead you off your true path and down to the graffiti level... I watched in horror as you started posting cloud readings instead of the true sign that you were posting...circa rattlesnake hill epoch...this person tried to inject himself in your posts with is misguided graffiti reading..and sorry to say you were
victimized by them...that is the one of the main reasons that I warn people to this day about the "infectious" nature of graffiti.
Just so you know..there is no such thing as Spanish Graffiti..all graffiti belongs on only one person ....Mother Nature and her forces...please understand this critical point...your being subjective and romantic about this when it is meant to be
looked at objectively and with the understanding that the rules of the Code where not laid down by me, but rather the Royal Code makers of the day..the signs are big bold and readily apparent when you employ the correct focus.
No code makers could deviate from the set of stern rules ordered and micromanaged by the Kings of Spain.
Mother Natures Graffiti could fill pages that stretch from here to the Sun and back about 184 million miles~!!

True signs only a modest and small booklet....

further you stated...."The art work is amazing and is a treasure in itself. Some of that "graffitti" so vehemently railed against is not Spanish and definitely not fluff."

Yes Mother Nature is amazing indeed and add that to you own imagination and experience you can "see" wonderful "artwork" it only leads to things coincidently not on purpose..as graffiti is everywhere, of course it will "lead" to more graffiti... try to see that as it is, it will help you and others immensely in your understanding and subsequent searches and finds...know the graffiti you see in almost every rock and stone was known about by the Codemakers as the ultimate camouflage for their real true signs, if fact many look exactly like real signs but without confirmations all are lead astray as was the intent of the code maker himself..and it works wonderfully well... to this day as evidenced by the many on tnet
who practice this "dark art" many with out knowing it...

Please understand, I am not disparaging you in any way, only trying to get you to see things objectively, to get you raise above the affray and distortion that graffiti is..no matter how "artful" it looks ..it is still not made by man, and only man made the real true treasure signs and marks..and it was the Kings Rule that real true signs be NOT confused by the works of mother nature...and that miracle is called..c-o-n-f-i-r-m-a-t-i-o-n ....peace to you dm

note: confirmation is the true key, to understanding the nature of signs and marks. as in the very end of the treasure trail you will be called upon to CONFIRM the dig spot, if you havent learned confirmation all along the way, you will not be able to i dentify the confirmation marks that will point out and confirm the dig spot, and if you dont dig, then you were just on a romantic adventure that you filled in the blanks with your own imagination and not the true facts about the code.
good luck kim, hope you see my post in the helpful spirit that it was meant,
I do like to see here and elsewhere and am very impressed with the real true signs that you have found.
keep up the good work, stay away from the virus if you can.
oro mandate
rangler

 

[rangler]

Two pictures in a thousand posts. Awfully generous of you, teache

Actually Springer, you misdirect folks as usual to my own two pics..when I have willing decoded pics
for other treasure hunters here for the last few that run many more times that..look for those pics
to learn the code, I spelled it out quite literally for all who will take the time, and yes all the confirmation
marks are there to to l earn from , instead of disparging me , you should take the time to learn how to
break the code yourself..oh yea what code huh dude?? lol
oro- only for the persistent
rangler

 

[desertmoons]

Chuckles. I just remember how you told me my current avatar photo area was total cloud reading.
To the rest, the proof is in the pudding and what works out in the field.

ps: And it was not Mother Nature's art work I was referring to, just to clear up that misconception of yours.

 

[Shortstack]

Desertmoons,
The OP is intentionally blind to other things to be found "out there". No amount of solid proof in the form of photos, will ever convince him of the abundance of facinating things to be discovered. To him, only the Spanish performed any mining and other explorations in this country. In one of his posts, he actually wrote that shadow signs were very rare and could be extremely important. LOL We've all seen some very detailed shadow signs in the photos of many other members here and the OP actually posted the "decoded" information presented by the shadows. He enjoys using that word "graffitti" a LOT, and I should be incensed about that. After all, I was the first one to use that word in reference to all of those extra numbers, letters, and figures that are found at many monument sites. At first, he tried to ignore those and call us names, but after many other folks began to ask him WHY they should be ignored because THEY saw them, too. When he realized that he couldn't get those others to back him on those evals, he began his "confirmation" signs line of thought. NOW, he emphases those CONFIRMATION signs to indicate the "true signs"... Well, why didn't he just point that out IN THE BEGINNING instead of resorting to name calling and finger pointing?

Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder if he is just using the Spanish thing as a cover for his own searchings for the ANCIENT stuff. I'm not the only member of this site to see how he tries his best to divert all discussions away from the Ancients and onto the Spanish.

If only he knew.................LMAO. But, then again, maybe he DOES know and that's the big secret.

 

[desertmoons]

Desertmoons,
Well, why didn't he just point that out IN THE BEGINNING instead of resorting to name calling and finger pointing?

Well SS, my main purpose in posting was to get him to man up and name names instead of using propaganda techniques. He is not the only one who has been trained in such around this forum , or has experience in character creation albeit not for the same purposes. His nebulous labeling of the "enemy" as they and them and some ... only serves to raise division and promote an agenda.

The tendency to focus on personalities, and to conjure up a cause and an enemy,which has changed from the gov't wanting to hide things, to mean old pros boo hoo who do not spill their very hard won knowledge lightly,(as it was learned through years of toil and 1000 of miles of boots on the ground why should they? ) to the the current over blown crusade against the unnamed cloud readers, distracts from the purposes at hand. Which is simply, marks and signs, I'd like that to stop frankly, as I feel it is a negative influence on the community here.

Putting a face on the so called enemy is one step in that direction. I believe it is safe to say, his current crusade is usually against you, me and sometimes Springfield. Springfield of course in no way could be considered a cloud reader. So there you have it folks.

There is not some rampaging horde of cloud readers wanting to only ensare you in their evil ways. Looks around..blinks.....why I guess it is just SS and me. A poor turn out of infidels... I would say..and mislabeled at that as to their nature.


Cloud reading is a phase people go through as they are learning the craft and training their eye. Some go a little slower, some a little faster...but it is simply a phase.


As to his agenda... that is the big mystery,,though I have my own thoughts on it. It is clear he is focused online at least..on Spanish. You bring up an interesting point. But it could be that Ancients are not talked about much online, nor is their iconography posted and labeled..so... he may not know much about them. He may have not looked for them in the field.

I recall how frustrating it was in the beginning. If only someone would give me a hint I was sure I could forge ahead. Over time and a few mistakes, I was blessed with a little help from people of good character and from a a lot of persistence out in the field . I would advise all folks new to this hobby to be very very wary. Sites do get stolen.

 

[Springfield]

.... Putting a face on the so called enemy is one step in that direction. I believe it is safe to say, his current crusade is usually against you, me and sometimes Springfield. Springfield of course in no way could be considered a cloud reader. So there you have it folks. .....

Actually, I really have to struggle with this, as I am extremely susceptible at seeing 'things' in rock formations, shadows, etc. I have trained myself to be very careful about this because it's almost always a dead-end distraction to the subject at hand. Nearly all the photos posted in this thread and others purporting to have found 'treasure signs' in rocks that look like other things are, IMO, showing nothing but rocks. Period. A genuine treasure sign may be enigmatic, but there is no doubt that it is man made.

Now, if the subject at hand is dealing with certain ancient Indian sites, and not 'Spanish treasure', it's a different story. This is a realm where the entire mindset dealt with things both seen and unseen, real and representative. In this context, sometimes a lookalike or a shadow indeed was important, but only when something else was at or near, such as a petroglyph. These are situations where it benefits having an artist's eye to try to understand.

Regarding the OP, anyone with an objective viewpoint and even a passing knowledge of debating and propaganda techniques will probably read the threads and come to the same conclusion as I did quite some time ago: the man is a blatant fraud. What his goals and objectives are is questionable, and as far as I'm concerned, irrelevant.

 

[Shortstack]

usernotfound:
Please do not take Desertmoon's post as a joke. There ARE folks who monitor this section, and one other one, to watch and learn without posting their own comments. A former member in the eastern half of the US, found a varified vault and posted too much information about it. A comment was posted referencing a certain group of people and a self-appointed representative of that group initiated a lawsuit against the man on trumped up libel charges. Not only was the man broken monetarily, but his health suffered GREATLY. The individual who brought the lawsuit, got all of his info from posts IN THIS SECTION and it didn't matter that the whole thing was a bogus piece of crap......the man had to hire lawyers to defend him in the courts while the piece of dog fices who brought the case up was backed by boatloads of money.
That is just one example that I am personally aware of and there could easily be 2 or 3 others. A couple of years ago, a young member was posting some very, very good signs and trail monuments that were close to the "yard". Two or three members advised him to delete those photos and posts QUICKLY and to be a lot more "vague" statements. Fortunately, he took the advice and toned down his posts while working behind the scenes with some trusted advisors. I surely hope he made a safe recovery. So please do not take Moon's post as paranoia or overly suspicious because there are people going around defacing signs TODAY, that have been documented.