Pack Mules - Realistic data

[cactusjumper]

OK, then instead of 'Where ever" - is there anyplace?

In the Wilderness Area.......No. Well......maybe.

http://superstition-sar.org/downloads/kollenborn_air_rescue_history.pdf

The trail heads are not in the Wilderness area.

When I was in SAR, we had to get permission from BLM and that was not an easy task.

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I see a designated place at a trial head. Has that been since out lawed?

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I would like to add my 2 cents here on mules. First, it really depends on the size of the mule. The general rule for mules is 1/3rd of the mules weight is what it can carry safely, no matter what size. A 600 pounder could carry 200 pounds. (a good reason to have a mule that is half large horse). One thing a mule has over a horse is their food and water consumption. They drink less water, and will browse on things horses won't touch. The downside to the mule, is that it's a mule. They can kill your dog, and many will, and phony lion photo or not, mules are nasty, and ours have endangered my son-in-law just because he came in the pasture near me and they also have killed 2 dogs. A ticked-off mule will tackle any animal, - and you, and they can take a huge chunk out of you. On the other hand, ours would follow us anywhere. But, if you are going to use a mule, you better know how. If you want to ride one, you need a different bit, and you need to saddle them differently, because their shoulders aren't like horses. If you don't raise the front of the saddle, a quick stop will slide you right down over their neck if you aren't holding on. (not to mention britching and other assorted pieces of tack. And mules will serenade you when you least expect it.

Mrs.O

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Oro posted -->Personally I like horses and don't see as many advantages to mules as some propose
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Proof that too much contact with sheep softens yer brain.

A mule can grow fat where a horsie will starve.

Mules are prettier

Mules won't do stupid thingies that horsies do.

Mules are prettier.

mules are much more surefooted than clumsy horsies.

Horsies aren't nearly as purty or effectionate as Mules

Mules are much more protective of both you and the camp.

Mules have such purty , loooong, expressive ears.

Just watching those ears are a better indication of what is going on around you than a dogie, and scrounge up their own dinner.

MUles, Mules, Mules rah rah ! Viva mules'.

Don Jose de La Mancha

P.S. Course Beth, you know all of this, yer married to one, (horsies, sheesh)

 

[Loke]

DJ - you posted: "Proof that too much contact with sheep softens yer brain."

Ahem - I believe that the above shows that too much contact with mules softens your brain.

As for mules bein' purdier - no way! More affectionate? hardly!
More protective - 'k, I'll grant ya that one!
As for not doin' stoopid things that horsies do - yup, I agree - and in addition they do a lot of stoopid things that horsies dont​ do ...

Ever come across the expression 'stubborn as a mule' ?? ;-)

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

In the Wilderness Area.......No. Well......maybe.

http://superstition-sar.org/downloads/kollenborn_air_rescue_history.pdf

The trail heads are not in the Wilderness area.

When I was in SAR, we had to get permission from BLM and that was not an easy task.

Joe Ribaudo

OK. How about this work around... hover. Any law against hovering?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Loke, in yer case the intelligence went to yer purty pooch. In Oro's case to his sheep in my case 'who ever risked their reputation by suggesting that I had any ??

MUles, Mules Mules.


while grazing, a horse just chomps away, a mule also chomps away but those huge purty ears are constantly feeling for subtle signals, so you merely watch them for an early warning, Sides they sing better than a cranky horse. Don't know about Roy's baying ?? Beth

Please watch your words around my purty Mule, she is sensitive

Son Jose de La Mancha

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

The Wilderness Act was updated in 2011 to include specific information as far as helicopters (along with other clarifications). Here is a cut and paste from that update:

A total of 13 subsequent wilderness statutes have provided for the construction, operation, and
maintenance of water resource facilities, for one specific area in some statutes and for all the
areas designated in other statutes. In contrast to many other provisions, the language in each of
these statutes appears to be unique, without clear repetition of the same language. In at least two
statutes—P.L. 95-237 and P.L. 98-428—helicopter access is allowed for sanitary facilities within
wilderness areas.

§ 2(i)—authorizes “whatever sanitary facilities are necessary (including but not limited to vault
toilets, which may require service by helicopter)

§ 101(b)(3)—authorizes “helicopter access to construct and maintain a … telecommunications
repeater site … for safety, health, and emergency services.”

§ 1503(b)(8)(C)—authorizes state use of aircraft (including helicopters) “to survey, capture,
transplant, monitor, and provide water for wildlife populations,” consistent with the Wilderness
Act and Appendix B of H.Rept. 101-405.

As you can see - there is not even an exception for search and rescue - though, like was said - it's possible, but its like pulling teeth, and it very, vary rarely happens in any wilderness area - not just the Supes. A couple of Wilderness areas (2 in Utah that I know of) have the exception that the state can use a helicopter - and only for emergency cases - when there is an issue with water dams. (like a dam breaks).

Mrs.O

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

DJ - you posted: "Proof that too much contact with sheep softens yer brain."

Ahem - I believe that the above shows that too much contact with mules softens your brain.

As for mules bein' purdier - no way! More affectionate? hardly!
More protective - 'k, I'll grant ya that one!
As for not doin' stoopid things that horsies do - yup, I agree - and in addition they do a lot of stoopid things that horsies dont​ do ...

Ever come across the expression 'stubborn as a mule' ?? ;-)

I'm going to have to disagree with you, Per. Mules don't usually do the stupid things horses do - you might not understand WHY they are doing something,
but they usually have a reason (if you can figure it out). Our mules first came to us wild - didn't even know what grain was - they thought we were trying to poison them, I think. They were in such bad shape that they never shedded out the first summer. But the next summer, one mule had chosen Oro as "his", and the other had chosen me - and they were very affectionate - to us. Not so much with strangers, deer, dogs and other things. They are also fast learners - good and bad. And they are protective. They are, imo, uncomfortable to ride, versus a horse, but, saddling them right is the key to that issue. Careful training is what makes a good mule for hauling along, and they can survive on scarce food better than a horse, and they drink less. And, they make beautiful music .

I love horses too - of course, but I've never had to put a hood over a mule's head to get him to do something, which I have had to do with horses.

Mrs.O

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Thanks for that info MzO. I suppose they couldn't do much about it if you hovered a helo say a foot off the ground, allowed your passengers to disembark, hand them their gear, then off the helo goes. Then, as required, make return trips to hover and deliver necessities and take home the trash. Eventually return to pick up the folks.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hmm since the Fed is so picky about helicopters, what about parachuting in? Fly over and simply jump out when you are over the right area, and have the plane push out your gear and supplies also attached to parachutes! Of course it might be instant death or slow death, especially as our Mexican friends would say, "el terrano es MUY peligroso" but what a wild ride on the way down! If you survive the jump and land safely, which in itself would be a trick, you could then have a treasure hunt right off the bat to try and find all the gear and supplies that came down by separate parachutes, and likely drifted with the winds!

If anyone does try this method, please let me know in advance so I can get cameras set up to film it? Yes that is being a bit morbid on my part, but one of us ought to make a profit on a bad idea right?

Seriously, there was a good reason why so many old-timer prospectors used burros - strong, protective, easy keepers, and (in some cases) affectionate. Supposedly they can even "smell" water which could be important in the desert. Today they have the added advantage of being legal in ALL wilderness areas. Donkeys are even relatively inexpensive to obtain, heck the BLM has an adoption program where you can get several for about the cost of the immunization shots the animals get.

Please do continue,
Oroblanco

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Hmm since the Fed is so picky about helicopters, what about parachuting in? Fly over and simply jump out when you are over the right area, and have the plane push out your gear and supplies also attached to parachutes! Of course it might be instant death or slow death, especially as our Mexican friends would say, "el terrano es MUY peligroso" but what a wild ride on the way down! If you survive the jump and land safely, which in itself would be a trick, you could then have a treasure hunt right off the bat to try and find all the gear and supplies that came down by separate parachutes, and likely drifted with the winds!

If anyone does try this method, please let me know in advance so I can get cameras set up to film it? Yes that is being a bit morbid on my part, but one of us ought to make a profit on a bad idea right?

Seriously, there was a good reason why so many old-timer prospectors used burros - strong, protective, easy keepers, and (in some cases) affectionate. Supposedly they can even "smell" water which could be important in the desert. Today they have the added advantage of being legal in ALL wilderness areas. Donkeys are even relatively inexpensive to obtain, heck the BLM has an adoption program where you can get several for about the cost of the immunization shots the animals get.

Please do continue,
Oroblanco

So then we agree amigo. There is no regulation against helo's that DO NOT LAND. yes?

 

[Oroblanco]

So then we agree amigo. There is no regulation against helo's that DO NOT LAND. yes?

I am not the Forest Service amigo - I am sure that MY OPINION will not help you if they decide to prosecute you.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Prosecute for what ? Fine for what?

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

A fine for knocking over a 200 year old cactus when ya parachute or fast rope outta the helo.

Are you of the mind that you can't find any place that wouldn't involve them?

 

[Oroblanco]

I begin to think that our amigo ConceptualizedNetherlandr is not here to discuss the topics, but for trying to start arguments.

As the Monty Python episode said, Arguments is in another section, this is Treasure Legends.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Most respectfully:

I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about you.

OK, accusatory brainiac ....

You came up with this:

A fine for knocking over a 200 year old cactus when ya parachute or fast rope outta the helo.

You alone own the concept. It is yours and yours alone.

I never said anything about chutes, knocking over cactus or ropes.

You are the one screwing up this thread.

Play nice or get out of my thread.

Don't like it? Buzz off.

 

[Oroblanco]

i was thinking the same thing. I guess I am really bored tonight so I will play along. Funny this thread started about mules and moved up to helos. Maybe tomorrow it will be time warps and UFO,s.

Hmm you have hit on even MORE possibilities! Why not construct a dimension door, enabling us to simply step through it to be transported to any spot desired instantly? No need for a lot of supplies, food water etc just step through, grab the gold and step back through. Repeat until enough gold is piled in our living rooms! Perhaps our argumentative amigo has plans for such a device?

 

[Oroblanco]

OK, accusatory brainiac ....

Name calling is frowned upon by the owners of this establishment.

ConceptualizedNetherlandr also wrote

Play nice or get out of my thread.

Don't like it? Buzz off.

I think I will follow your kindly advice, thanks!

 

[Loke]

Hmmm - I have a good mind to alter my personnea - to 'ConceptualizedNeanderthaler' .... ;-)