Old Shaft Unearthed in Anza-Borrego Desert!!

[Treasure_Hunter]

Thread is 12 years old.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[crashbandicoot]

R E S T U R A N T S ?? sheesh gully, what have our seekers of lost mines etc turned into? I remember two dry tortillas a day, or a bit of Pinole for days of walking, and as for cold drnks?? sigh

I s my purty whitel Land Rover still ok?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Good pics Don Jose,reminds me of my days in the Marines!

 

[crashbandicoot]

Yeah just saw the date,what a derp I am!!!!

 

[Dirt1955]

Hold on now...crashband...you are no derp... an old thread does not mean the treasure has been found...take for instance the previous posters... Treasureminder/Rog (or whatever he calls himself today) is unreliable at best. He is originally from New Mexico and doubt he has ever been to Anza-Borrego. Gollum - still posts on Treasurenet, is the expert regarding the Anza-Borrego desert stories. he has been there, and has the best research I have seen available on the area. PM him and he might help you out.

Dirt

 

[Riverbum]

A lot of times the OLD THREADS hold a lot of INFO I've used them several times

 

[gollum]

That tunnel is still one I am keeping under my hat (more or less). Mainly because, at best, its very dangerous to crawl in. I will not post locations of places under the following conditions:

1. If its something I am or plan on working.
2.If the subject is in a remote location and is an historically significant thing.

The "danger to others" is an important thing, but adults can make their own decisions as to what they consider safe. Just like getting a flu-shot or wearing a mask! LOL I remember while researching the "10 Oxcarts of Treasure" Story, I read about a guy in (IIRC) 1967 that believed he could just drive close to it, walk a short way and collect the treasure. He drove his old VW Beetle out there, and broke down somewhere near Ocotillo Wells. He only had a quart of water with him because the story he had read in Treasure Magazine made it sound like it was just sitting so close that anyone could drive up and carry it home. He died out there. They found his broken down Beetle several days later. He wasn't very far from it. In 1967, the area was not populated except for a very few Desert Rats.

Since I live in Central Arizona now, I don't get out to Anza-Borrego very often. I know a guy here that bought a small ranch in the hills near Dewey-Humboldt. While clearing his property of Catclaw and Scruboak, he found what looked like a rusty piece of oddly shaped sheet metal. When he had it looked at, he learned that it was a Spanish Morion Helmet.

But back to Anza-Borrego

I will give y'all some interesting things to go and find:

1. If you go to "Font's Point" (just East of Borrego Springs), look down at the "mess of snakes" of canyons at the base. If you spend some time exploring those washes, you will find many travel signs and symbols carved into the canyon walls. You can also find other VERY interesting things like:

Not too far from this "thing" are the (now buried) remains of a Mastodon/Mammoth. Chuck Kenworthy found this in the mid 1970s. There are gigantic piles of rounded river gravel and places large rectangles of hilltops were dug up. That was someone either dry-washing or running a sluice/highbanker testing for gold. I don't remember all the wash names, but I do remember "Hills of the Moon" wash was very productive. Several of the photographs from Chuck Kenworthy's Book "Spanish Monuments and Trailmarkers to Treasure in the United States" of stone monuments can be found here. Actually, about 90% of all the monuments in the book are from either Anza-Borrego Desert or The Superstition Mountains in Arizona. Specifically, when you get to the entrance to Hills of the Moon Wash, look to your left and you will see the "MELTED FACE" Monument. When you see that, start looking to your right. Its pretty far (maybe a quarter mile) East of the wash, but the "FISH MONUMENT" is easily seen. The Fish Monument was probably made by the DeAnza Expedition, as it locates a fresh water spring near the "Pumpkin Patch" at the base of Borrego Mountain East Butte(now covered by some flat rocks and dry as a bone). The easiest way to get to these wash entrances is to take Highway 78 to the Ocotillo Wells SVRA (State Vehicle Recreation Area). This is at the South End of Borrego Mountain (East Butte). Take the road around the East Side, past The Pumpkin Patch. You will get to San Felipe Creek/Wash. It is from here that you find "Rainbow Wash", "Hills of the Moon Wash", "Big Wash", "Third Wash", and "Fault Wash". They all twist and wind wind themselves up to the base of the cliffs East of Font's Point. Two things to be careful of here. Rattlers and where the rain comes down the cliffs, it has eroded the hardpack to make weird caves. They are dangerous and contain a ton of loose boulders set in hard packed sand. Not very secure. I always wondered if I could get down far enough to find where all that gold that washed out of Anza-Borrego settled. I tried a couple and only got in a couple of feet before testing the roof and walls with a pry bar. Everything just started coming loose, so I bounced. Will not go back in for love or money! I also recommend most highly that nobody try it. Also, a geologist explained that the hardpack under that stretch of land is about 1000 feet below the surface. This also kind of confirms part of Earl Dorr's Kokoweef Peak story that his underground river was several thousand feet below Kokoweef Peak.

Enough for now. Never sweat replying to an old post. Especially of the OP is still active on TNet.

Take Care - Mike

 

[gold tramp]

That tunnel is still one I am keeping under my hat (more or less). Mainly because, at best, its very dangerous to crawl in. I will not post locations of places under the following conditions:

1. If its something I am or plan on working.
2.If the subject is in a remote location and is an historically significant thing.

The "danger to others" is an important thing, but adults can make their own decisions as to what they consider safe. Just like getting a flu-shot or wearing a mask! LOL I remember while researching the "10 Oxcarts of Treasure" Story, I read about a guy in (IIRC) 1967 that believed he could just drive close to it, walk a short way and collect the treasure. He drove his old VW Beetle out there, and broke down somewhere near Ocotillo Wells. He only had a quart of water with him because the story he had read in Treasure Magazine made it sound like it was just sitting so close that anyone could drive up and carry it home. He died out there. They found his broken down Beetle several days later. He wasn't very far from it. In 1967, the area was not populated except for a very few Desert Rats.

Since I live in Central Arizona now, I don't get out to Anza-Borrego very often. I know a guy here that bought a small ranch in the hills near Dewey-Humboldt. While clearing his property of Catclaw and Scruboak, he found what looked like a rusty piece of oddly shaped sheet metal. When he had it looked at, he learned that it was a Spanish Morion Helmet.

But back to Anza-Borrego

I will give y'all some interesting things to go and find:

1. If you go to "Font's Point" (just East of Borrego Springs), look down at the "mess of snakes" of canyons at the base. If you spend some time exploring those washes, you will find many travel signs and symbols carved into the canyon walls. You can also find other VERY interesting things like:
View attachment 1988275
Not too far from this "thing" are the (now buried) remains of a Mastodon/Mammoth. Chuck Kenworthy found this in the mid 1970s. There are gigantic piles of rounded river gravel and places large rectangles of hilltops were dug up. That was someone either dry-washing or running a sluice/highbanker testing for gold. I don't remember all the wash names, but I do remember "Hills of the Moon" wash was very productive. Several of the photographs from Chuck Kenworthy's Book "Spanish Monuments and Trailmarkers to Treasure in the United States" of stone monuments can be found here. Actually, about 90% of all the monuments in the book are from either Anza-Borrego Desert or The Superstition Mountains in Arizona. Specifically, when you get to the entrance to Hills of the Moon Wash, look to your left and you will see the "MELTED FACE" Monument. When you see that, start looking to your right. Its pretty far (maybe a quarter mile) East of the wash, but the "FISH MONUMENT" is easily seen. The Fish Monument was probably made by the DeAnza Expedition, as it locates a fresh water spring near the "Pumpkin Patch" at the base of Borrego Mountain East Butte(now covered by some flat rocks and dry as a bone). The easiest way to get to these wash entrances is to take Highway 78 to the Ocotillo Wells SVRA (State Vehicle Recreation Area). This is at the South End of Borrego Mountain (East Butte). Take the road around the East Side, past The Pumpkin Patch. You will get to San Felipe Creek/Wash. It is from here that you find "Rainbow Wash", "Hills of the Moon Wash", "Big Wash", "Third Wash", and "Fault Wash". They all twist and wind wind themselves up to the base of the cliffs East of Font's Point. Two things to be careful of here. Rattlers and where the rain comes down the cliffs, it has eroded the hardpack to make weird caves. They are dangerous and contain a ton of loose boulders set in hard packed sand. Not very secure. I always wondered if I could get down far enough to find where all that gold that washed out of Anza-Borrego settled. I tried a couple and only got in a couple of feet before testing the roof and walls with a pry bar. Everything just started coming loose, so I bounced. Will not go back in for love or money! I also recommend most highly that nobody try it. Also, a geologist explained that the hardpack under that stretch of land is about 1000 feet below the surface. This also kind of confirms part of Earl Dorr's Kokoweef Peak story that his underground river was several thousand feet below Kokoweef Peak.

Enough for now. Never sweat replying to an old post. Especially of the OP is still active on TNet.

Take Care - Mike

Still haven't found traces of those Spaniards up on the sheeps Mike, I did find my buddy Longs camp, some happy guntoters shot it up with automatic weapons now there's about a million pieces of shrapnel covering the flat and trail head.
I gave up metal detecting the site.
Gt......

 

[gollum]

Still haven't found traces of those Spaniards up on the sheeps Mike, I did find my buddy Longs camp, some happy guntoters shot it up with automatic weapons now there's about a million pieces of shrapnel covering the flat and trail head.
I gave up metal detecting the site.
Gt......

GT,

If you haven't found traces of Spaniards, then you haven't been looking very hard. LOL There were several Spanish/Mexican Mines, but they have all been reopened and worked first in the 1880s, then again during the Depression in the 1930s. Take Highway 62 out of 29 Stumps to Amboy Road. Head towards Amboy until you see the Cell Towers on the right (East) side of the road. Here are some modern things you can find:
1. From the towers follow the dirt road North and then to the East. You will find a LARGE cement ore washing area (mercury or arsenic).
2. From the towers, take the dirt trail South. You will come around the Southern end of a large wash. Make the turn and head North in the wash. Find this large cement water catchment,

and go up this canyon. The first thing you will find are some modern nugget traps (cement). You can spend weeks up this wash (I spent years here). The trail gets nasty and narrow in places. You will soon find (at the top of a waterfall) a 1932 Ford Chassis bolted to a large boulder. It must have been used to haul ore out and equipment up (engine is long gone). You will also find a bunch of mines going up the mountain on the right side (South Side of the canyon). On the North Side is a very old monumented trail heading to the top of that peak.
3. If you pass the canyon with the water catchment, you will find some neat things: An arrastra (modern), and a Cement Pad for a small stamp mill:

There is a ton more, but this will get you started.

Mike

 

[gold tramp]

GT,

If you haven't found traces of Spaniards, then you haven't been looking very hard. LOL There were several Spanish/Mexican Mines, but they have all been reopened and worked first in the 1880s, then again during the Depression in the 1930s. Take Highway 62 out of 29 Stumps to Amboy Road. Head towards Amboy until you see the Cell Towers on the right (East) side of the road. Here are some modern things you can find:
1. From the towers follow the dirt road North and then to the East. You will find a LARGE cement ore washing area (mercury or arsenic).
2. From the towers, take the dirt trail South. You will come around the Southern end of a large wash. Make the turn and head North in the wash. Find this large cement water catchment,
View attachment 1990145
and go up this canyon. The first thing you will find are some modern nugget traps (cement). You can spend weeks up this wash (I spent years here). The trail gets nasty and narrow in places. You will soon find (at the top of a waterfall) a 1932 Ford Chassis bolted to a large boulder. It must have been used to haul ore out and equipment up (engine is long gone). You will also find a bunch of mines going up the mountain on the right side (South Side of the canyon). On the North Side is a very old monumented trail heading to the top of that peak.
3. If you pass the canyon with the water catchment, you will find some neat things: An arrastra (modern), and a Cement Pad for a small stamp mill:
View attachment 1990146
There is a ton more, but this will get you started.

Mike

Not much you can tell me about the Sheephole mnt, I've actually spent and documented better than 3 years with my boys climbing all over them lookin for the Spanish and my ole buddy Long. They are a stones throw from my house here in wonder valley, I've seen all that stuff you are showing.
I guess if you say the Spanish were there you found proof so be it...
Gt...
Remember Mike I actually have a working arrastra in my front yard that has Sheephole granite for grind stones..

 

[gollum]

Bridle Bells, Buttons, and pieces of riding tack can be found with a metal detector. We did.

There is an old trail along the South Side of that same canyon. Its monumented. There is a square sighting hole (with a pointer inside) that shows a once hidden cave/shaft/prospect. From there, every (except one) mineshaft can be found with (I call them) gunsights. They are small rocks wedged in gaps between larger rocks. If you have really been all over that area, then you must have found several interesting things I left (LOL some by accident like an Estwing Orange Handle GeoPick). If I see pics, I will confirm anything.

I have posted pics of some of the gunsights before. I'll see if I can dig them up here. A bunch of crap got packed away when I moved to Az in 2017, and I haven't needed it since.

Mike

 

[gold tramp]

Only thing I found metallic was longs shot shell brass, one of his tabacco cans with paper inside what was left, his burros shoe a cooking pan fell off his burro, the depression era tabacco cans with readable paper work. And gold from his workins.
Any ways it's a good argument as to wether you found Spanish artifacts, if I had they would be in my display cabnet up front and the first thing I put back out if I moved.

Good talking bout the sheep mnts and the Spanish I was up the Bullion's just last week chasing down trails, camps, diggins, and as always lookin for the Spanish, they might been good geologist and knew just by looking there no gold up there that's why I can't seem to find any traces of them.
Maybe you got everything ?
Gt ....
One more thing to add before bed, we found the blm guys badge that he lost while removing the old pipe cross up in the rocks.

 

[gollum]

Only thing I found metallic was longs shot shell brass, one of his tabacco cans with paper inside what was left, his burros shoe a cooking pan fell off his burro, the depression era tabacco cans with readable paper work. And gold from his workins.
Any ways it's a good argument as to wether you found Spanish artifacts, if I had they would be in my display cabnet up front and the first thing I put back out if I moved.

Good talking bout the sheep mnts and the Spanish I was up the Bullion's just last week chasing down trails, camps, diggins, and as always lookin for the Spanish, they might been good geologist and knew just by looking there no gold up there that's why I can't seem to find any traces of them.
Maybe you got everything ?
Gt ....
One more thing to add before bed, we found the blm guys badge that he lost while removing the old pipe cross up in the rocks.

No gold up where? Sheeps? Nothing but gold(sulphides)/copper there. Almost the entire range was under claim at several points in history. It just takes a crap-ton of digging brass, lead, bottle caps, pull tabs, and old cans. Occasionally a modern coin or two. Once even found someone's house key at the top of the mountain. LOL I don't think so highly of myself that I believe I have found everything good to find there. I can almost guarantee that after every good rain, more stuff will turn up, and I haven't been there since about 2016. I have told the story a bunch of times, but be careful. A very large mountain lion must be denning up in one of those old mines, as she trailed me down that canyon almost all the way to the truck. Probably to make sure I didn't go near her babies.

I spent a bunch of time in and around the Bullions as well. I was only chasing down one story I got from an old Jarhead at the historical society. Since I doubt I will spend any more time on this story, I will give it out.

So, around 1950 or so, 29 Stumps Security Patrol was patrolling the Gunnery Range. They spotted a guy walking in a nasty waterless area. They approached him to see if he needed help, but he drew a gun and fired at them. They returned fire killing him. He was wearing a backpack, and in that pack were two gold bars about two pounds each. The Gubmint looked into who this guy was. Turns out, the dead guy had been in the area training to go to North Africa in 1941. He was a rockhound, and spent his spare time hiking around the mountains. He told his friends that he found a cave that held a stack of gold bars. He refused to give them more details, and they thought he was full of crap. He had also told his family and friends the same story after returning from the war. He wasn't able to get back until about five years later. This was when he was killed. I don't remember exactly where he was from. IIRC it was either Chicago or Detroit. Not a ton of detail, but since I was beating up the Sheeps at the time, I decided to also spend some time on the other side of Amboy Road. LOL Have you seen the old HotRod/RaceCar over there? Still readable NHRA Sticker on it. I want to say it was a 1938 or 1940. Its all shot up, and nothing usable is on the car. Probably stolen from L.A.

Mike

 

[gold tramp]

I bet there wasn't more than 500 ounces gold found up in those Sheephole mnts, Mike.
In my exploration sampling never found placer gold there. really couldn't find much scraps from hardrock either, what I did find was so fine it would of took much ore to make up ounces, the holes that are there couldn't of produced much as they were very small diggins, I doubt there was any copper found worthy of mining again no holes.
I think the claims you are talking about is just the normal well it looks like gold bearing ground let's claim it, same thing happens today. Alot guys like to just post paper so they got the bullcrap rights when out drinking..

That's why I don't believe that the Spanish were up there, no water no placers not much hardrock, not worthy of the trip across a waterless landscape.

I also wonder why the spanish would go to the sheeps anyways the mnts in the Dale had much placer fields with nuggets as big as taters to pick up out of the washes with out even swinging a pick or even having to use a shovel.
first prospectors in the dale to hit those washes filled bags in a day with pounds of nuggets ..I knew of an old boy supposed to have found 50 pounds nuggets in his career of placer minin in the dale his name was Dowie Crittenden..
Anyways I'm not really interested in the bars of gold I got plenty of hardrock n placering to do to find that elusive yeller stuff, would rather waste my time tryin to find a Spanish artifact so I keep lookin maybe one day.

Good talking about this subject..
Gt ....

 

[Maka13]

Do you have the coordinates for this tunnel? What an awesome find? We map and explore abandon tunnels in Southern California. This one sounds like an amazing quest.

If you ever want a partner to explore with, I would love to join you.

 

[thormchammer]

No gold up where? Sheeps? Nothing but gold(sulphides)/copper there. Almost the entire range was under claim at several points in history. It just takes a crap-ton of digging brass, lead, bottle caps, pull tabs, and old cans. Occasionally a modern coin or two. Once even found someone's house key at the top of the mountain. LOL I don't think so highly of myself that I believe I have found everything good to find there. I can almost guarantee that after every good rain, more stuff will turn up, and I haven't been there since about 2016. I have told the story a bunch of times, but be careful. A very large mountain lion must be denning up in one of those old mines, as she trailed me down that canyon almost all the way to the truck. Probably to make sure I didn't go near her babies.

I spent a bunch of time in and around the Bullions as well. I was only chasing down one story I got from an old Jarhead at the historical society. Since I doubt I will spend any more time on this story, I will give it out.

So, around 1950 or so, 29 Stumps Security Patrol was patrolling the Gunnery Range. They spotted a guy walking in a nasty waterless area. They approached him to see if he needed help, but he drew a gun and fired at them. They returned fire killing him. He was wearing a backpack, and in that pack were two gold bars about two pounds each. The Gubmint looked into who this guy was. Turns out, the dead guy had been in the area training to go to North Africa in 1941. He was a rockhound, and spent his spare time hiking around the mountains. He told his friends that he found a cave that held a stack of gold bars. He refused to give them more details, and they thought he was full of crap. He had also told his family and friends the same story after returning from the war. He wasn't able to get back until about five years later. This was when he was killed. I don't remember exactly where he was from. IIRC it was either Chicago or Detroit. Not a ton of detail, but since I was beating up the Sheeps at the time, I decided to also spend some time on the other side of Amboy Road. LOL Have you seen the old HotRod/RaceCar over there? Still readable NHRA Sticker on it. I want to say it was a 1938 or 1940. Its all shot up, and nothing usable is on the car. Probably stolen from L.A.

Mike

Sir,
I read threads like yours and I am endlessly amazed. I canjust ever-so-barely fathom what you are talking about and I am envious of finding Spanish artifacts. As a lover of history that would make my life to find something that old in CA. To add treasure on top of it all just seems to good to be true. I’ll keep hunting out your posts to live vicariously through you, in what ever small pittance of your success you choose to share here. If you ever find yourself needing legs for something, I should like to at least offer myself as available. And thanks for the stories!

 

[gollum]

I know this is old, but I will talk about why I say Spanish rather than Mexican or just Old. Not in the Sheepholes, but a small range near there is a 50 foot tall heart carved into the side of a large hill.
In the Sheepholes, on the Southeast Corner (not exactly but close) there is a very old Rock Lined Well. Also American and Mexican Miners weren't known for leaving mine symbolism and large markers. That was mostly a Spanish Thing.

The "Monumented Trail" I talk about starts with a Bird Head pointing to the trail. The trail is only a mile to a mile-and-a-half. The original starting mine was hidden(buried). The location was only found by looking through a very well made gunsite that aimed at the entrance.

The Spanish were all over EVERY mountain range in the area. When the Depression hit in 1929, people started looking for those old mines. There was a crap-ton of Spanish Stuff found over the years in the area of The Pintos, Sheepholes, Coxcombs, Calumets, etc (I will say the 50 foot heart is in one the aforementioned Mountain Ranges). Anybody wishing more info on Old Spanish Stuff found in the area, just go to The 29 Stumps Historical Society (thats how I got the gold bar story).

Mike

 

[gollum]

Only thing I found metallic was longs shot shell brass, one of his tabacco cans with paper inside what was left, his burros shoe a cooking pan fell off his burro, the depression era tabacco cans with readable paper work. And gold from his workins.
Any ways it's a good argument as to wether you found Spanish artifacts, if I had they would be in my display cabnet up front and the first thing I put back out if I moved.

Good talking bout the sheep mnts and the Spanish I was up the Bullion's just last week chasing down trails, camps, diggins, and as always lookin for the Spanish, they might been good geologist and knew just by looking there no gold up there that's why I can't seem to find any traces of them.
Maybe you got everything ?
Gt ....
One more thing to add before bed, we found the blm guys badge that he lost while removing the old pipe cross up in the rocks.

I know this is old Buddy, but I was just rereading the post, and see I didn't EXACTLY respond (with evidence) to what you said about no or very little gold. Look at those Satellite pics I posted again. So, if there was no or very little precious anything in the Sheepholes, why would someone go to all the trouble of building Three Stamp Mills (2 in pic), Two large Water Catchments (one is 20' diameter and in pic), a 15' diameter arrastra, and at least 12 mines along two canyon mouths in a 1/4 mile stretch (look at the straight line), if there was not much value there? And you can't look at the arrastra and three stamp mill pads as separate. All process ore. I can skirt the entire Sheephole Range and show a lot more, but there are plenty of Google Earth Experts that have found the Lost Dutchman, the Mines of King Solomon, and the Beale Treasure. HAHAHA

I forgot to include the 35' diameter cement ore washing spot (with location references):

The large rectangular spot in the middle looked like (IIRC) an ore loading platform (see the road going past it). That is a reference to Pic#1, the large rectangular/square area in Pic#2 is the Radio Antenna Tower and control house. You also have to remember that in the "OLD DAYS" they wouldn't mine ANYTHING LOW GRADE (like a sulfide vein). When they hit a fat vein of sulfides, they would follow it to see if it turned into visible gold. It wasn't profitable to work a sulfide vein in hard to reach canyons. You have to remove tons of gold bearing sulfides (usually) to get a tiny bit of gold. ONLY profitable at a Corporate Level with very heavy machinery and strip mining. No evidence of ANY of that here. All hand cut trails and a bunch of mines. Inside the dozen or so mines visible, there are a lot of hand cut support timbers, but there are also later machine cut as well. Like I said: First the Spanish, then the Mexicans, then later, Americanos. Not likely to find any "Still Hidden" Mines there, but you never know. But you can't say there was little to no gold/silver mined there. Different peoples beat those mountains up for hundreds (maybe thousands) of years. THAT would never have happened if there wasn't anything of value.

The easy to reach spots have almost certainly been beat to death. My firm belief is that anything left there of any great value will be found on the North or NorthEast Sides of the range. Very steep and craggy (with nasty local animules). Also almost impossible to drive to without going SEVERAL MILES around the North side in a HUGE ARC to avoid the hundreds of deep gullies and dry washes running out of the mountains. Sometimes it seemed like it would have been easier to drive up to I-40 and come South from way up there. LOL

You also can't rely on what Uncle Sam tells you about Regional Mining History. In Southern Arizona along the Santa Cruz River Valley, the BLM will tell you that a very little mining was ever done there, and not much wealth came from the area, while to this day, local ranchers horses sometimes trigger an ancient shaft collapse where the horse and rider fall in. Has also happened to trucks just driving across flats off road.

"There is a lot more to Heaven and the Sheepholes than is dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio!" LOL

....and about the Bullions; I don't know if you can get access, but the mountains in the "Off-Limits Areas" of the 29 Stumps Gunnery Ranges would be the place to spend some time.

Mike

 

[gold tramp]

No need blow my horn on this matter anymore...
If I ever find something Spanish up the sheepholes I be sure post it here..
Back over to my journal in the gold forum, it's same old mining stuff just a different year..
Maybe something exciting and worthy of a post will happen...

Good talking this subject with you mike....