Old find with renewed interest

[Danimal]

Some of you may remember a find I made a few years ago of a bronze pendant that seemed to be of ancient origin (specifically Minoan).
I had posted the find here on TNet and a few other places looking for any information on the find. What I received in return was a flood of interest from various archeologists and others who spend their time studying ancient Greek, Crete and Minoan civilizations. Quite a few were interested in meeting me to take metal samples from the item for proper dating. I even received a fairly large cash offer for the item (which I refused mainly due to advice from a few here who thought it could be worth much more if ever authenticated).
Bottom line was that the interest in the item COMPLETELY dissappeared as I revealed more and more details as to WHERE the item was found (in NE Ohio) as the "experts" in this field (like many other "experts" in other fields of study) declared that the item MUST be either a forgery or a modern reproduction because it does not "fit" their paradigm of who was visiting N. America in it's past. Never mind that PLENTY of other "paradigm busters" exist in N. America (Roman coin caches found, Egyptian artifacts found, Viking artifacts found, etc) just remember that MOST experts won't put their reputation on the line by issuing heretical statements that counter accepted theory.

I recently though have been contacted by a man (Author Frank Joseph) who's specialty is EXACTLY the opposite the norm. Mr. Joseph has authored books that deal with archeological finds that DON'T fit the accepted theories on early N. American settlers and visitors. Mr. Joseph even has covered OTHER Minoan artifacts that have been uncovered in N. America!

(I can ramble on can't I??...don't you all MISS that lol)

Long story short, my pendant is being featured in the July issue of Ancient American; Archeology of the Americas before Columbus magazine! Mr. Joseph is convinced my find is authentic. Here is a link the Ancient Americas magazine's website:

http://www.ancientamerican.com/

Here are a couple of recent pics I took for him of the pendant:

Hopefully this renewed interest will spark more inquiries from the Mediteranian archeology community in general. If it IS authentic, this item is over 3000 yrs old.

Keep digging and don't ignore REAL deep targets (this was found at over a foot deep)

 

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[allen]

I forgot to add, hopefully this artifact is confirmed as real....

 

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[woody50]

Nice find for sure. I like it. That it was about a foot deep could have something to do with the time it has layed in the ground. Depends also if the ground was moved around a bit, for instance farmed... The object seems in quite good condition if its 3000 years old, if that is the case the land is not airy, it should be a dense, clay type of ground. And really not farmed land with all their chemicals. Hope it works out for you and is very old.

 

[jeff of pa]

Danimal, If you do Get this Authenticated
And could Possably Find your Original post
to Merge them, This
would make a Excellent Best of TreasureNet post.

Good luck !

Jeff

 

[eathabs]

Danimal, If you do Get this Authenticated
And could Possably Find your Original post
to Merge them, This
would make a Excellent Best of TreasureNet post.

Good luck !

Jeff

Indeed

habs

 

[Deno]

Truth can be stranger than fiction. Please keep us posted. This is the best hobby in the world.
The experts have been proved wrong before.

 

[Kyle PA]

Danimal, If you do Get this Authenticated
And could Possably Find your Original post
to Merge them, This
would make a Excellent Best of TreasureNet post.

Good luck !

Jeff

I agree, too, Jeff.

Have you gone back to the site, Dan? If so, have you found anything else that could fit within the same time period of this relic?

Kyle

 

[Danimal]

Danimal, If you do Get this Authenticated
And could Possably Find your Original post
to Merge them, This
would make a Excellent Best of TreasureNet post.

Good luck !

Jeff

I agree, too, Jeff.

Have you gone back to the site, Dan? If so, have you found anything else that could fit within the same time period of this relic?

Kyle

Highly unlikely Kyle, as if it IS authentic, it's 3000+ yrs old and not much remains from the early bronze age here in N. America. Even if it IS real it was dropped by an early visitor to N. America. Whether that visitor was European, Minoan or whatever is irrelevant.
The soil it was found in does not appear to be original to the spot. Some coins found in that area dated much older than the silver and wheats that were found in the surrounding dirt. Heavy rock and clay mix, probably brought in from riverside fill from elsewhere.

 

[woody50]

Danimal, If you do Get this Authenticated
And could Possably Find your Original post
to Merge them, This
would make a Excellent Best of TreasureNet post.
Good luck !
Jeff

Here it is http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,49936.msg356944.html#msg356944

 

[Alchemy]

I have a couple of items that people question how they came to be here, one has been authenticated, the other is was a coin I sent to David Sear who stated that it is a 19th century foruee...he's basing "his" findings on the findings of Jenkins (from the 1970's book he wrote) This coin was found buried in a cave in NY. I'm still not convinced it's a fake from the 19th century..but, whatever...lol

Anyway, what I'm getting at is there are some pretty strange ways for things to come to where they are...
I honestly do believe it IS possible people made it from Europe, SE Asia or from where ever, to the N. & S. America continents
Their numbers being so few and it being so long ago, making relics near impossible to find, yet some still are found.
Why should that be so hard to believe?
There have been a number of ancient Roman and Greek coins dating back 4000 years ago, found on the shores of the east cost...speculation being that they had ship wrecked while trying to find land and the coins wash up on the shores now from time to time

 

[Danimal]

I have a couple of items that people question how they came to be here, one has been authenticated, the other is was a coin I sent to David Sear who stated that it is a 19th century foruee...he's basing "his" findings on the findings of Jenkins (from the 1970's book he wrote) This coin was found buried in a cave in NY. I'm still not convinced it's a fake from the 19th century..but, whatever...lol

Anyway, what I'm getting at is there are some pretty strange ways for things to come to where they are...
I honestly do believe it IS possible people made it from Europe, SE Asia or from where ever, to the N. & S. America continents
Their numbers being so few and it being so long ago, making relics near impossible to find, yet some still are found.
Why should that be so hard to believe?
There have been a number of ancient Roman and Greek coins dating back 4000 years ago, found on the shores of the east cost...speculation being that they had ship wrecked while trying to find land and the coins wash up on the shores now from time to time

Alchemy,
Years ago when digging and blasting was being done to install the first lock on the Ohio River to enlarge it for modern boat traffic, a pot filled with Roman coins was unearthed. This is amongst many such finds that seem to indicate ancient visitation to N. America. Those coins are still on display in a museam near the river but to date no one has had a decent explaination for them being there.

I reitterate, the Minoan civilazation itself was unknown to modern man until th1878 and even then excavations did not being until 1900. If my pendant dates older than 131 yrs old, it then cannot be a "modern reproduction"

Here is a link to the Wiki info on the Minoan civilization. Make note of the fresco of the "prince of lillies" and the similarity to the figure on my pendant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knossos

 

[oldhippiecoinhntr]

Very interesting reading. I have no doubt this piece could be old as the Minoan civilization. I have a very keen interest in ancient civilizations, but by no means an expert or even very knowledgeable by any difinition. Its as I say, I have a keen interest, and have many many books on the subject I have read. One thing that never bothered or concerned me, was how something got there, or where, or here or there. And in all the reading I have done, I have noted that some experts in the field never did much either. But then there is opinions from every corner of expertise. It seems to be a case of, who do you agree with?

But take modern man, You, me, he, her. Many people, and especially me, love trinkets(one reason I metal detect). I collect pins, and buttons, tie tacks, and other adornments that go on shirts, coats, etc. I have two vests I made from wore out denim coats in my early hippie years, I wear covered with them. I wear them everyplace on occassion ( I am an old hippie ), and have for years while traveling all over usa. I add to them, and have lost some. Its like the crows, who seem to love shiny things, or the chipmonk or other rodents that collect them. So I have litterly taken history from one place to another. Was ancient man any different? Likely not. Had to be some wierd types out there like me ( or others ), a century or more ago, that wearing or carrying some artifact with them, gave them some sort of personal pleasure. Also, tradesman and artisans existed centuries ago, that traded or brought goods from thier travels back to where they were from, or going to. Art, jewelry was traded, bartered for, or given away to many people, who then took it someplace else.

So to me, there is no mystery to how something got someplace that seems out of place. Simply, someone brought it there. Duh! As for the ancient roman coins in ohio? Roman coins have been around for how long? Well some immigrant from europe likely brought them with, and for some reason buried them. What is more mystifing to me than 'HOW' did the roman coins come to ohio, but 'WHY' did someone bring them, only to have buried them, and 'WHY' did they bury them after bringing them so far?? That is the question. Thanks for reading my rambling post, and forgive my spelling errors.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Although I will admit that you found something amazing, I have my reservations. Ancient Minoans from an island in the Mediterranian finding there way 1500 miles inland on the mainland of North America just does not add up. If this was found on the East Coast it would have me thinking, but 1500 miles inland?

I have to admit that after spending the last 30 minutes looking at Minoan Butterfly Axes, yours matches. It definitely has me wondering. The obvious answer is that it is ancient, but it was worn by someone as recently as the 18th century. Who knows?

I also remember seeing a post, not too long ago, of what appeared to be a Roman coin found in KY, or somewhere in the vicinity.

Some links:

Ancients in America: http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa080700a.htm
Weird Michigan: The Newberry Discovery: http://tinyurl.com/qf2caj

 

[woody50]

I also remember seeing a post, not too long ago, of what appeared to be a Roman coin found in KY, or somewhere in the vicinity.

Roman coins have been around a long time, and there are many collectors of them. I have even sent a pail full of them to the US in the past (over the past 20 years) to different friends, so I don't see any reason why cannot they be found in the USA. If people do take them in their pockets to show someone else for instance, they can be lost. The same with this item. Although that it was found deep in the earth, was the ground never worked in the past, or brought in? We shall never know I guess... But not only Romans lose coins....

 

[Danimal]

I also remember seeing a post, not too long ago, of what appeared to be a Roman coin found in KY, or somewhere in the vicinity.

Roman coins have been around a long time, and there are many collectors of them. I have even sent a pail full of them to the US in the past (over the past 20 years) to different friends, so I don't see any reason why cannot they be found in the USA. If people do take them in their pockets to show someone else for instance, they can be lost. The same with this item. Although that it was found deep in the earth, was the ground never worked in the past, or brought in? We shall never know I guess... But not only Romans lose coins....

Just so we are all on the same page here.
I have not...and am not...making ANY claim that this relic was brought here by Minoans! Frankly, I do not care HOW it got where it was.
I found it.
It appears to be genuine and NOT a 100 yr old period piece.
IF it pans out that it IS genuine, it is very valuable...regardless of WHERE it was found of how it ended up there.
I was not going to turn down this recent focus of attention on my relic just because the people that are interested in it have theories about what cultures visited N. America in the ancient past.

 

[woody50]

I also remember seeing a post, not too long ago, of what appeared to be a Roman coin found in KY, or somewhere in the vicinity.

Roman coins have been around a long time, and there are many collectors of them. I have even sent a pail full of them to the US in the past (over the past 20 years) to different friends, so I don't see any reason why cannot they be found in the USA. If people do take them in their pockets to show someone else for instance, they can be lost. The same with this item. Although that it was found deep in the earth, was the ground never worked in the past, or brought in? We shall never know I guess... But not only Romans lose coins....

Just so we are all on the same page here.
I have not...and am not...making ANY claim that this relic was brought here by Minoans! Frankly, I do not care HOW it got where it was.
I found it.
It appears to be genuine and NOT a 100 yr old period piece.
IF it pans out that it IS genuine, it is very valuable...regardless of WHERE it was found of how it ended up there.
I was not going to turn down this recent focus of attention on my relic just because the people that are interested in it have theories about what cultures visited N. America in the ancient past.

I was not aiming this at you, but at others who were discussing the subject. Sorry if you felt it that way..

 

[beaks]

the fact it that nobody knows for sure who has visited the americas in the past and no amount of education will change that fact.

it either is or is not an ancient relic and without testing you wont know for sure.
just make sure that it doesnt leave your posession or line of sight if you have it tested(artifacts tend to come up missing quite often when they are sent off for testing)

 

[pookie-princess of rust]

thats cool! i hope it turns out to be real for you.

 

[Don11971]

Dan,
To say that was a nice find would be a understatement! I'm so glad that you found such a wonderful Artifact.

 

[Detectingfreak]

I know I maybe crazy for saying this, but I do believe that it is aliens who took the Minoan's away. Thats the only conclusion, but I am also not going to finally conclude it ever being Aliens in the first place. They might have all died and someone burned the evidence of them even being there. Who knows. One thins is, If anyone of us lives to the year 2050 it will be very interesting to see what people uncover.

Yep those Minoans sure got around ...

Rock On Dan ~ Nick

The Minoans were a seafaring race that suddenly dissapeared. Artifacts have been found in Michigan with Minoan writing on them. So yes, it does look like they got around.

I was always surprised that the logic of the experts was basedly JUST on whether Minoans might have actually visited. This pendant appears to be just a shaped part of a larger pc.. I always thought that perhaps it was worn by an earlier visitor from Europe perhaps. The symbology on the pendant has to do with fertility and is supposed to bring luck with child bearing.

You are 100 Percent Correct ...

I wonder why they "Suddenly Disappeared" ...

 

[Danimal]

Just as an update:
I received the pre-press copy of the magazine article and I was lucky enough to be included as a co-author (I am published!)

I am waiting for the ok to post the article and story here for you folks to read. It was well written and quite captivating. Apparently a few other items of apparent Minoan origin have been found in N. America besides mine. Again, not proof that the Minoan's visited, but apparent proof that their culture was more widespread than previously believed.