Off topic, but I need some help regarding my rights.

[$MELTER-1]

I know you guys are big on personal rights, so I thought you might be able to help on this one. It's a simple question, but I can't find the answer online. Can an animal control officer show up at my home when he's off duty? We're dealing with feral cat problem on my property and in the nearby woods, so I agreed to set up traps to catch them. We've caught around 20 so far in the daytime, but the issue is he wants them set up 24/7 and I told him no way. I'm not leaving a cat stuck in a trap for up to 20 hours waiting for this idiot to show up and take him away. He only works from 7 AM to 3 PM, so that's why they might be stuck in a trap for a long period of time.

Fast foward to last week, when he showed up at 9 PM in street clothes and in his own vehicle. He pounded on my door and scared the heck out of my elderly friend who lives with me. He was mad that the traps weren't set up. I again told him that I'm not leaving cats in traps for 20 hours. Does he have the right to pull this nonsense while off the clock? Doesn't seem legal to me. I don't want anyone on my property in the middle of the night anyway (for liability issues). What if he steps in a hole in my backyard and breaks his ankle? Any advice on this one would be appreciated.

P.S. Let me also add that all these cats are healthy and well fed, so he's not trying to protect them from abuse. Can't use that as an excuse.

If a critter like that broke its leg in my yard in the middle of the night like talking bout idd have to put it out of it's misery.sometimes you just have to give um what they really came for you know or they just keep on a coming 😂

 

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[newnan man]

Your animal control guy sounds like an a$$ threatening you with a fine over feral cats when you have been trying to help. I would tell him they're not your cats & to remove his traps, and if you want to keep trying to catch them, fine. You sound like a kind individual trying to do what is best. As far as feeding feral cats I have mixed emotions. There is a large public parking lot on the outskirts of town that is next to the animal shelter. (It is owned by the county, run by the sheriff & is a no kill shelter.) For years people have dumped cats off at night which then run over to the parking lot. Now there's a large group of feral cats living there. People that are cat lovers feed them & try to trap & nueter/spay them. They have built small shelters for them. If they were not being fed I think they would be more destructive to wildlife than now. They lounge in the shade and some are quite friendly. The cats would be there, just starving if no one fed them. If you stop feeding them they will just hunt more or become someone else's problem. That's just my take on things, other opinions are noted, appreciated and hold merritt.

 

[releventchair]

I'd love to do that, but the state has a three cats maximum per household law. We have three indoor cats and at least five that are outside. So he keeps threatening to fine us $75 per cat, even though they're not really our pets, since they're feral cats. I've tried to catch them, but have been unsuccessful. The ACO refuses to try catching them with a net and won't dart or drug them, so what more can I do? Keep setting up traps for months? I've had enough of this deal. Tired of getting up at dawn and checking traps all the time. It's no longer working, so I say give it a rest for awhile.

Not your cats , not your legal responsibility.
Threatening to fine you for cats that are not yours I'm surprised you haven't put an end to yet.
I wouldn't be worried about paying such a fine when they are not your cats.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Perhaps if he can operate under the cover of darkness cats will be disappeared with no record. No more burden on the over crowded shelter. I'm not stating an opinion about that, but it could be the explanation. He wants to get it over with as much as you. How much time does this guy have to deal with each property owner? Working off the books over time is commendable. Sit down with the guy over a beer and explore solutions. Hell, I'll send you a couple beers if need be.

 

[tamrock]

You could probably make that animal control officer's life a living hell by reporting his way of cat control to PETA.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Your animal control guy sounds like an a$$ threatening you with a fine over feral cats when you have been trying to help. I would tell him they're not your cats & to remove his traps, and if you want to keep trying to catch them, fine. You sound like a kind individual trying to do what is best.

So it's not just me who thinks this guy is going overboard? Thanks for confirming that. His claim is if I'm feeding them, they're mine. Not right, but that's the way they view it around here.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Yet folks like your family cause these over populations of feral cats. Which are a blight on the bird life.

If I didn't feed them, they would kill every bird within 1000 feet of my home. Feeding them makes them slow and fat so they can't catch anything!

I rarely see a dead bird in my yard. The only ones I see have been ripped to shreds by a hawk that hangs around my yard.

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

We had to trap a bunch of feral cats at our apartment complex and sardines or anchovies work great even for wary cats but cover the trap it makes them go in to investigate instead of leaving it uncovered ,We got rid of all the cats that way.

 

[DizzyDigger]

Yeah, I can see that it's a bit of a tough spot to be in.

Don't know the laws there, so this is strictly my opinion.

If the traps are being placed on your property, then the Animal Control Officer (ACO) has got nothing to say about when and how you set the live traps.

If you like the cats, there is an option for you, known as TNR, or "Trap, Neuter, Release". Working with a group, you could trap them, have them neutered and then released back into your area. They get to live in the natural way they have been, and the kitten factories are closed.

Check out this group right there in Rhode Island:

Paws Watch | Improving the lives of feral cats

 

[joetoilet]

You seem the type I'd collect my traps and depart in a hurry.
And from what you write neither of you seem to live by any degree of compromise!

IF the "control" officer is showing after hours , celebrate the passion of the work.


Well done on the daytime catches.
If night time catches are desired by the officer , what is the latest you could arm traps for the officer to collect no later than say 9:00 A.M.?
Trapping law varies but checking sets once per 24 hrs. has been in given instance declared a requirement. Not as humane enough. Or often enough. Rather it simply means not leaving sets unchecked for longer.
And as you demonstrate that doesn't suit everyone's idea of trapping.

Why you didn't have a clear plan up front when the officer already did hints of self imposed conflict if acceptable feline in trap wait time becoming an entire operational conflict.

I'm not your officer. You have cats waiting in traps and progress is being made in my opinion.
Your objecting to officer stopping at varied hours as if it is a right or not of either party is a red flag. Why your officer remains involved is a better question! But then hours of officer visitation would have been established on my property before a trap was set.
(My states D.N.R. can trespass with reasonable cause.) Your participation with an animal control agency likely voids your right to complain about hours of operation. But did you fill out any forms? Or sign an agreement?

Had you had cats waiting in traps when post dark officer visit / door knock occurred they would have sat for a less amount of time than 20 hours wouldn't they have?
How should a determined cat collecting person interpret your objection then? Thier work should be more convenient for both you and the cats?

Thank you. That is a perfect response. If the poster was worried so much about the cats he/she needed to trap and tame them and found them a home. I think most time's when the State gets involved it a kill shelter.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Thank you. That is a perfect response. If the poster was worried so much about the cats he/she needed to trap and tame them and found them a home.

Trap them and tame them? Exactly how would I do that? Lock them in my home until they magically become tame? You have no clue regarding feral cats. I've been able to tame feral kittens over the years, but feral cats are usually feral for life.

 

[wainzoid]

So you created the problem by feeding them and now you expect someone else to solve that problem, your way.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

So you created the problem by feeding them and now you expect someone else to solve that problem, your way.

Wrong. The problem was originlly created because people dumped cats off in my area. Add to that neighbors who let their cats roam free and don't neuter them and you end up with my situation.

 

[mtdoramike]

First off, he can't demand anything from you since you are the property owner, secondly, if it were me, I would have ordered him off my property and to take his traps with him when he leaves. Then if you want to work on your cat problem, buy your own traps, cat the cats on your time line and then take them to the animal control office yourself.

 

[Bucket Lister]

I'd love to do that, but the state has a three cats maximum per household law.

I believe R.I. is also one of the few states that requires domestic cats be licensed.

Rhetorical: How do you license a feral cat?

---

So you created the problem by feeding them and now you expect someone else to solve that problem, your way.

Wrong. The problem was originlly created because people dumped cats off in my area.

I'm sorry, but that's not what you said before.
You said...

My late mother and my girlfriend started feeding them many years ago.

---

IANAL, and IDK the laws in R.I., much less Scituate.
Up to OP, but might be time to lawyer up.

I am also not anti-cat; we've been staff to an indoor cat, and if I weren't severely allergic, might be still.

That said, from The American Bird Conservancy:

Outdoor domestic cats are a recognized threat to global biodiversity. Cats have contributed to the extinction of 63 species of birds, mammals, and reptiles in the wild and continue to adversely impact a wide variety of other species, including those at risk of extinction, such as Piping Plover.

The ecological dangers are so critical that the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) lists domestic cats as one of the world’s worst non-native invasive species.
....
In the United States alone, outdoor cats kill approximately 2.4 billion birds every year. Although this number may seem unbelievable, it represents the combined impact of tens of millions of outdoor cats. Each outdoor cat plays a part.

It goes on....

Just sayin'....

 

[ARC]

You know what will usually keep cats away ? ? ?

Dogs.
(not serious... this is a joke)

 

[Lone Star]

I know you guys are big on personal rights, so I thought you might be able to help on this one. It's a simple question, but I can't find the answer online. Can an animal control officer show up at my home when he's off duty? We're dealing with feral cat problem on my property and in the nearby woods, so I agreed to set up traps to catch them. We've caught around 20 so far in the daytime, but the issue is he wants them set up 24/7 and I told him no way. I'm not leaving a cat stuck in a trap for up to 20 hours waiting for this idiot to show up and take him away. He only works from 7 AM to 3 PM, so that's why they might be stuck in a trap for a long period of time.

Fast foward to last week, when he showed up at 9 PM in street clothes and in his own vehicle. He pounded on my door and scared the heck out of my elderly friend who lives with me. He was mad that the traps weren't set up. I again told him that I'm not leaving cats in traps for 20 hours. Does he have the right to pull this nonsense while off the clock? Doesn't seem legal to me. I don't want anyone on my property in the middle of the night anyway (for liability issues). What if he steps in a hole in my backyard and breaks his ankle? Any advice on this one would be appreciated.

P.S. Let me also add that all these cats are healthy and well fed, so he's not trying to protect them from abuse. Can't use that as an excuse.

Having had the same I understand what your up against. I don't know your city or state, so I don't know your laws.
It sounds to me that this guy is over the top. NO, they can't intrude on your property unless you have given them permission, or some flagrant violation is visible from the street.
Do it they way it works for you. You can always refuse to do their work in any degree.

 

[Dejure]

As one or more other pointed out, and regarding the specific circumstances, there's nothing wrong with the cat cop showing on his own time, and in civies.

You know who he is. You invited him there and made clear you don't want the kitties suffering 20 hours in a trap. So expecting him to dress up for the job in his off hours would be unreasonable. Complaining about it might compromise his desire to go the extra mile for you.

All that said, your cat ranch, your rules. He'd have no authority to be on your property absent permission from you.

In the end, it sounds like he is going an extra mile, as are you. Accordingly, if both of you are inclined to be a bit gruff, you'd both do well to figure out a get around, which starts with laying out ground rules (he gets some too).

In the end, he doesn't have to show up at all, unless he says he will (Public Duty Doctrine even applies in this situation).

As to garb, he's a cat cop anytime he's performing cat cop duties.


Inasmuch as he is a public official with the power to issue citations, he is bound by certain laws. For example, if you pulled all HIS traps, gave them back to him, and informed him he was no longer needed, or would only be called on a situational basis, he cannot step onto your property, aside from the walkway to deliver service, mail, UPS and so on. Anything more violates state and federal constitutions.


Now to the three cat rule:

(1) It's on the state / county / city /town to prove you have forty-seven and 3/8ths cats, rather than you to prove you don't.

(2) People talk too much. You, likely, already told the guy too much, or, otherwise, let him know too much. However, his memory can be ripped apart in the course of the administrative processes, or the judicial witness stand. After all, he misunderstood what you said. "Right"?

(3) Making threats or demanding money not owed is a crime:

18 USC § 1961 Definitions

As used in this chapter -

● (1) "racketeering activity" means (A) any act or threat involving murder, kidnaping, gambling, arson, robbery, bribery, extortion, . . . , which is chargeable under State law and punishable by imprisonment for more than one year; (B) any act which is indictable under any of the following provisions of title 18, United States Code: . . . , section 1341 (relating to mail fraud), section 1343 (relating to wire fraud), . . . , section 1503 (relating to obstruction of justice), section 1510 (relating to obstruction of criminal investigations), section 1511 (relating to the obstruction of State or local law enforcement), section 1512 (relating to tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant), section 1513 (relating to retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant), section 1951 (relating to interference with commerce, robbery, or extortion), section 1952 (relating to racketeering), . . .


Keep in mind, even courts and judges are not immune from accountability. An Illinois court was declared a RICO enterprise (Operation Greylord).

18 USC § 876
Use of US Mail to extort money or other valuable item, or to threaten property, reputation or a person is a criminal act.


There may, also, be laws in your state. My state has the Profiteering Act.

There is more that could be added, and we are only getting your side. As such and for all we know, his threats may have been reaction to being treated poorly even after going an extra mile helping solve a problem someone [unknowingly] made. It may be you owe him a thanks, or even a thanks and an apology. Or not.

 

[Bucket Lister]

You know what will usually keep cats away ? ? ?

Dogs.

I disagree. 55 years of having large dogs and the various stank scents they exude has not diminished the local cat intrusions into our yards in the least.

Having--or training--a dog to be aggressive toward cats can be a liability if the dog harms someone's pet or child.

There's also the potential for spreading disease. NO vaccine is 100% effective, and rabies isn't the only nasty that can be passed from cats to dogs to humans.

I think there's a compromise solution here, but I'm not so vain as to think I know exactly what it is--possibly a combination of things.

What about setting the traps at dusk/end of day, and checking them (near) first thing in the morning? Feral cats (I've read) are primarily nocturnal. If caught, they're not in there more than 8-12 hrs. and likely less. If there's nothing in the trap, disable it until next evening and reset. We did something similar when we had a raccoon infestation, and it worked quite well. Not a perfect solution, but addresses some of the issues, and in combination with other tactics...

Pest extermination is never easy, IME.

 

[ARC]

I disagree. 55 years of having large dogs and the various stank scents they exude has not diminished the local cat intrusions into our yards in the least.

Having--or training--a dog to be aggressive toward cats can be a liability if the dog harms someone's pet or child.

There's also the potential for spreading disease. NO vaccine is 100% effective, and rabies isn't the only nasty that can be passed from cats to dogs to humans.

I think there's a compromise solution here, but I'm not so vain as to think I know exactly what it is--possibly a combination of things.

What about setting the traps at dusk/end of day, and checking them (near) first thing in the morning? Feral cats (I've read) are primarily nocturnal. If caught, they're not in there more than 8-12 hrs. If there's nothing in the trap, disable it until next evening and reset. We did something similar when we had a raccoon infestation, and it worked quite well. Not a perfect solution, but addresses some of the issues, and in combination with other tactics...

Pest extermination is never easy, IME.

Who said anything about "aggressive" dogs ? ? ?

First off... it was a joke.... and since you are new here and you obviously aren't familiar with my antics... Its safe to say... you were not on the lookout for it.
I do not condone anything aggressive in this matter... or any other matter... for that matter. heh