Oak Island Factual (proven/documented) Information

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The artist was trying to illustrate a heathen. While indeed it may look like an Indian it could also represent a wild haired viking. Not all vikings wore round horned helmets. ( another point to consider the medieval artist probably never left the village and had no concept what a Dane or viking looked like?)

None at all, really. That practice didn't come along until opera and theatrics in the 1800's. No one who fights hand-to-hand wants handles on their helmet to add weight and catch swords.

Just like we all imagine pirates based on the images of N.C. Wyeth for the R.L Stevensen book Treasure Island.

The Danish/Native American qualities of the archer image are secondary to the fact the eyes are at almost the very top of the head. No human has that physiology. Our eyes are closer to the center of the head in height. So . . . it's just a stylized artistic licensed all to heck representation.

 

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[ECS]

You are wrong again as usual.

Saying that is easy, as you have stated many times over, Franklin my friend, but providing evidence that proves one wrong is something you avoid by choice.
If you state that someone is wrong, prove it. without real documented evidence, you claims of "wrong" mean absolutely nothing.
"NUFF SAID!

 

[Crow]

None at all, really. That practice didn't come along until opera and theatrics in the 1800's. No one who fights hand-to-hand wants handles on their helmet to add weight and catch swords.

Just like we all imagine pirates based on the images of N.C. Wyeth for the R.L Stevensen book Treasure Island.

The Danish/Native American qualities of the archer image are secondary to the fact the eyes are at almost the very top of the head. No human has that physiology. Our eyes are closer to the center of the head in height. So . . . it's just a stylized artistic licensed all to heck representation.

Gidday Charlie

Good point.

That error was of great learning for me as it is easy for all of us to have various degrees of confirmation bias without realizing it. If you want to get closer to objective truths, you have to be able to admit you were wrong, especially in the face of new data. If you can’t admit defeat, it makes you incapable of making new discoveries in this world. You can avoid biases by being aware of your belief systems, whether your belief is for a religion, a political ideology, a cultural worldview, or something else. Be open to disconfirmation, and allow yourself to be wrong.

My error is a stereo typical image of what a viking looks like based on mass media of the 20th century perhaps earlier. Same for pirates we know have pirates of Caribbean Johnny Depp personal jack Sparrow implanted into our imaginations on what a pirate looks like with dreadlocks mascara and jewellery.Or earlier images of pirates from R L Stevenson books as well as others and earlier Hollywood movies.

So I have to correct my error to in stating "Not all" vikings wore round horned helmets to "None at all" Based on the factual evidence we know Only one helmet proven viking origin. below Provence museum of Denmark.



However my basis was tainted by other factors. Such as images of horned helmets below however we have to look at their context. These were ceremonial helmets. most date back to the bronze age below.



And another ceremonial horned helmets dated 150 Ad found in the river Thames below.



The irony of it all 150 AD horned helmet found in that was found in 1868 in the River Thames by Waterloo Bridge in London, England. It clearly predates the viking era. And is now on display at the British Museum in London. It was perhaps assumed to be Viking thus reinforcing public image through plays, books at the time viking wore horned helmets?

The depiction of Vikings in horned helmets was indeed an invention of the 19th-century Romanticist Viking revival.In 1876, Carl Emil Doepler created horned helmets for the first Bayreuth Festival production of Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen, which has been credited with inspiring this, even though the opera was set in Germany,

We’re typically more aware of our assumptions than of our biases, but like biases, assumptions often keep us from thinking clearly. It’s risky to presume that your assumptions are correct. Always test your hypotheses. we can do this by searching out disconfirming evidence of our theories, and forming factually-supported arguments with new evidence that can further prove your point.

As for the illustration in the church dry stroke well the artist was not very good at drawing people. Leaving a poorly drafted image open to Apophenia.

The fact remains there is more evidence to support the image is of St Edmund death by vikings than the death of King Arthur in America.

Crow

 

[billb]

Oak Island has been a stopping point for numerous people throughout history and we know so far that farmers became very rich being there..

 

[Crow]

Once again my apologies as we have digested away a little from Oak Island.

I just do not seethe point of Cultural misappropriation of another countries folklore figure being added to the narrative of American history.

For me it seems such people propagating such theories do not really appreciate Americas own unique cultural history.


Crow

 

[franklin]

Always by living on one side of the street, you will never know what is going on across the street or around the world. Closed up world.

 

[ECS]

Always by living on one side of the street, you will never know what is going on across the street or around the world. Closed up world.

...and by posting pulp pseudo placebo fabricated fantasies from self published quasi historians as real history long suppressed by the professional academic community enabling them to keep their jobs reveals a gullible "closed up" mind.

 

[Smithbrown]

Franklin, we are patiently waiting on our side of the street for you to tell us about that important book. Please give us the details- Big and clear so we can see it on this side of the road.

 

[Smithbrown]

Franklin, in case you have forgotten which book we want to know about- title, author, date, publisher, page number- it was the one with the fuzzy photo and the year 490 on it. Looking forward to the information. Hopefully soon.

 

[Smithbrown]

You know, Franklin, I am beginning to suspect you are more interested in castigating us for our ignorance than leading us to enlightenment. Why would you not want to let us know the author and title of such an important book? Come on, Franklin, tell us all about the book.

 

[Smithbrown]

I am intrigued- why would someone publish a fuzzy out of focus photograph, on purpose? You could clear it all up so quickly and easily. Come on Franklin- do the right thing.

 

[ECS]

You know, Franklin, I am beginning to suspect you are more interested in castigating us for our ignorance than leading us to enlightenment. Why would you not want to let us know the author and title of such an important book? Come on, Franklin, tell us all about the book.

It may be that Franklin is afraid that informing us of his source books would be highly embarrassing for him.

 

[ECS]

...
Here is some Coelbren written in the year 490. Please explain no Coelbren before 1791?
View attachment 1915272

What is the source of this alleged Coelbren writing, and since you claim to be able to translate Coelbren that Alan Wilson is unable to do, what does it say?

 

[Crow]

Always by living on one side of the street, you will never know what is going on across the street or around the world. Closed up world.

Gidday Amigo

I do not live in planet America I live on planet earth. I do not have American centrist view on the world nor any other country. I have lived and worked in many countries I am just after facts not looking to reinforce any cultural narratives or beliefs. Having no agenda to rewrite history to suit my cultural beliefs, because in essence I am a stateless person my flag is a flag of convenience. I am open to any hypothesis providing there is compelling case supported by facts.

Being open minded enough to take the time to try to verify some your claims.Yet your mish mass of claims are just not supported by verified known "facts"

Thus amigo the alleged Arthurian presence in America or alleged connection to Oak island is fatally flawed.


The Welsh monk Nennius (9th century CE) in his History of Britain is the first to mention Arthur by name.

Here the very words written of Arthur below taken from...

Historia Brittonum a purported history of the indigenous British (Brittonic) people that was written around 828 and survives in numerous recensions that date from after the 11th century

Then it was, that the magnanimous Arthur, with all the kings and military force of Britain, fought against the Saxons. And though there were many more noble than himself, yet he was twelve times chosen their commander, and was as often conqueror.

The first battle in which he was engaged, was at the mouth of the river Gleni. The second, third, fourth, and fifth, were on another river, by the Britons called Duglas, in the region Linuis. The sixth, on the river Bassas. The seventh in the wood Celidon, which the Britons call Cat Coit Celidon.

The eighth was near Gurnion castle,where Arthur bore the image of the Holy Virgin, mother of God, upon his shoulders, and through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the holy Mary, put the Saxons to flight, and pursued them the whole day with great slaughter.

The ninth was at the City of Legion, which is called Cair Lion. The tenth was on the banks of the river Trat Treuroit. The eleventh was on the mountain Breguoin, which we call Cat Bregion.

The twelfth was a most severe contest, when Arthur penetrated to the hill of Badon. In this engagement, nine hundred and forty fell by his hand alone, no one but the Lord affording him assistance. In all these engagements the Britons were successful. For no strength can avail against the will of the Almighty.

That is the only mention of him in that book. Not quite fanciful legend we hear to day knights of round table etc....

We can go to the National library of Wales in Aberystwyth there is books that can be found below



The Book of Aneirin (Welsh: Llyfr Aneirin) is a late 13th century Welsh manuscript containing Old and Middle Welsh poetry attributed to the late 6th century Northern Brythonic poet, Aneirin, who is believed to have lived in present-day Scotland. The manuscript is kept at the National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth

The Black Book of Carmarthen, so called because of the colour of its binding and its connection with the Priory of St John the Evangelist and Teulyddog, Carmarthen, is now thought by modern scholars to be the work of a single scribe writing at different periods of his life before and about the year 1250. It is believed to be the earliest surviving complete manuscript written in the Welsh language. It was designated one of the 'Four Ancient Books of Wales' by William Forbes Skene (1809-92), although he believed it to have been written much earlier in the twelfth century. This book has a brief mention of Arthur in Poem.

The White Book of Rhydderch (Welsh: Llyfr Gwyn Rhydderch, National Library of Wales, Peniarth MS 4-5) is one of the most notable and celebrated surviving manuscripts in Welsh. Mostly written in southwest Wales in the middle of the 14th century (c. 1350) it is the earliest collection of Welsh prose texts. This book has a brief mention of Arthur in Poem. What was one manuscript was divided into two in the medieval period and has been bound as two separate volumes,
known as Peniarth MS 4 and Peniarth MS 5. Peniarth MS 4 contains the most important material:
medieval Welsh tales now collectively known as the Mabinogion

The History of Kings text is that of Geoffrey of Monmouth’s highly influential Historia Regum Britanniae (‘History of the Kings of Britain’), translated into Welsh as ‘Brut y Brenhinedd’ (‘History of the Kings’) . The Latin Historia,
written c. 1135, traced the descent of the Britons back to Brutus, the eponymous founder of Britain, who settled on the island with his followers after the fall of Troy. It provided the first full biographical account of king Arthur, and was extremely popular and influential in Wales. The Welsh text appeared in the 13th century, and survives in over 60 manuscripts. This copy is associated with, and perhaps partially derived from, Peniarth 21, which dates from the early 14th century. It is now considered to have no value as history. As many account are seen as inaccurate.

So from these and others very some what brief mentions of Arthur we have of this legendary folk figure.


So it has been easy to manipulate such figure into anyone's historical narrative?

Crow

 

[Honest Samuel]

# 1. You total confuse me, which is not too hard.

 

[gazzahk]

Thus amigo the alleged Arthurian presence in America or alleged connection to Oak island is fatally flawed.

Now come on my friend...

How would the Americas have got his flour if he was never there..



What more proof could you need....

 

[Honest Samuel]

Read # 3. Members: Ease up on Franklin, he is a member who I trust and believe. Under his name is: Professal Treasure Hunter. I know nothing about this book in question. I do believe the story starting with the boys founding the rope on a tree. For all yours nonbelievers, explaining about the tunnels under the grounds if there was no buried treasures. Simple, the pirates or those who dug them and buried treasure dug the tunnels so the water flood out the way to get to the treasures. Many smart people dug on the island including a formal president. A mad treasure hunter just moved too much dirt around so nobody else can locate the pit. No treasures will be found because no treasure hunters can solve the water problems. I am a proud Connecticut Yankee who only search my great interest state./ Good hunting and good luck.

 

[gazzahk]

Members: Ease up on Franklin, he is a member who I trust and believe...

I too considere franklin a friend and enjoy his contributions... BUT if you post things in a public forum which are in conflict with known history one must expect to be challenged on those claims..

That why we visits forums to share and discuss.

Personally I think franklin is just winding people up for a bit if fun...

 

[DaveVanP]

How has the Bay View Runestone then been translated when it was written on the stone in 579AD?

Here is some Coelbren written in the year 490. Please explain no Coelbren before 1791?View attachment 1915272

That's when well-known forger and literary charlatan Edward Williams INVENTED the Coelbren y Beirdd alphabet. That is why there is no known mention of its existence before that time.

 

[ARC]

Read # 3. Members: Ease up on Franklin, he is a member who I trust and believe. Under his name is: Professal Treasure Hunter. I know nothing about this book in question. I do believe the story starting with the boys founding the rope on a tree. For all yours nonbelievers, explaining about the tunnels under the grounds if there was no buried treasures. Simple, the pirates or those who dug them and buried treasure dug the tunnels so the water flood out the way to get to the treasures. Many smart people dug on the island including a formal president. A mad treasure hunter just moved too much dirt around so nobody else can locate the pit. No treasures will be found because no treasure hunters can solve the water problems. I am a proud Connecticut Yankee who only search my great interest state./ Good hunting and good luck.

No treasure will be found either.

For none was buried there... and even if there was one... its long gone.

The existence of a "pit" would in itself indicate that whatever was once there ... be it treasure or otherwise... is and was then upon its first discovery... loooong gone.

No treasure or anything else that has been buried was found simply by the indication of an existing "pit"...

Holes / pits are left by those who have REMOVED something... NOT by those hiding something. heh

To me this makes more than perfect COMMON sense.

This is not just a "theory"...

This is factual and first hand... BEINGS... I have been digging holes since I could crawl. heh

Enough to know that a simple divot in the ground means someone before me already dug it.

The discovery of a road(s).. that IMO was buried after its use is definitely indicative of a need to someone for something... that was later obviously hidden by covering... or just a base of rock under fill to add stability for heavy equipment in the early days of treasure hunters.

After all... it would be hard to get any large / massive equipment to any location on that island without building stable "paths / "roads".

The simple fact that a "hole" / "pit" was what was originally found is an obvious clear sign of one of two things.

1. Treasure was removed.

2. There was no treasure and was a structure intended for something else completely.