Not possible digging that deep.

[Roadhse2]

gazzahk...

Do some reading on "blue hole caves"...When the tide turns they actually pull the water out of the deep cave system so quickly that the surface many hundreds of feet away actually churns and foams until it 'lulls', the condition between high and low tide, and at which time is the only safe period for divers to enter/leave the cave system.

Now, not saying this is what happens at OI...but there are reports of this surface disturbance that have been reported just off of OI in 2 areas...Not on the Smith Cove side though, but off the closer shore to the Money Pit

Of course with these kind of forces at work, marine life would have no choice but to follow the tidewater...

Thanks!

 

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[gazzahk]

gazzahk...

Do some reading on "blue hole caves"...When the tide turns they actually pull the water out of the deep cave system so quickly that the surface many hundreds of feet away actually churns and foams until it 'lulls', the condition between high and low tide, and at which time is the only safe period for divers to enter/leave the cave system.

Now, not saying this is what happens at OI...but there are reports of this surface disturbance that have been reported just off of OI in 2 areas...Not on the Smith Cove side though, but off the closer shore to the Money Pit

Of course with these kind of forces at work, marine life would have no choice but to follow the tidewater...

Thanks!

I personally think there two different sources of water. The 'flood tunnel' at 100 ft source and the water in the caverns at 170+ ft. It is quite bad that the Laginas never commented on whether the water was salt, fresh or brackish when the broke into it with there first hole (C1).

This article Cavities under and around Oak Island The Oak Island Compendium - The Blockhouse Blog has one of the cavities starting as fresh until it was penetrated and water could move out then the salt come in.

I think that 'for sure' those cavities under the 170ft must be linked to the sea. However I do not think this explains the 'flood tunnel' level of water.

Once again they did not even test the water in the old chapel mine shaft to tell us whether it was fresh, salt or brackish.

 

[Roadhse2]

"Once again they did not even test the water in the old chapel mine shaft "

Nope, because with any test mentioned, it would HAVE to be salt water or the whole flood tunnel deal falls apart, the flood tunnel deal falls apart, the Money Pit story falls apart...on and on...

Sometimes you have to look at not only 'what' is said' but what is also left out of the equation by omission to come to the right answer...Of course anyone working the drilling, and divers would know...but under a disclosure agreement you won't get them to say....there's still money to be made in this story and they want to get more of it

 

[Robot]

But ferric cyanide ("iron cyanide" - Prussian Blue) is not hydrogen cyanide (poison). Different molecule.

You just have liquid blue dye.

Read your article further - "because of the kinetic stability of iron cyanide ions, the iron present in these complexes will not take part in chemical reactions". Like shedding iron to accept hydrogen atoms.


And here we spiral off again with something that has no connection to Oak Island. Has anyone found traces of Prussian Blue on Oak Island? Why bring it up?

Prussian Blue is not just an innocent Dye

The two items that come from it are salt of iron and the very lethal hydrogen cyanide

"In 1752, French chemist Pierre J. Macquer made the important step of showing Prussian blue could be reduced to a salt of iron and a new acid, which could be used to reconstitute the dye.[SUP][26][/SUP] The new acid, hydrogen cyanide, first isolated from Prussian blue in pure form and characterized in 1782 by Swedish chemist Carl Wilhelm Scheele,[SUP][27][/SUP] was eventually given the name Blausäure (literally "blue acid") because of its derivation from Prussian blue, and in English became known popularly as Prussic acid. Cyanide, a colorless anion that forms in the process of making Prussian blue, derives its name from the Greek word for dark blue."

I am not an Alchemist, but the Freemasons who constructed these tunnels and shaft were.

It was claimed and documented that a mysterious blue clay was found within this construction.

Posts here could not come up with an explanation as to: "if the water is connected to the ocean, why marine life was not abundant within."

The report I posted showed that "Prussian Blue" under certain conditions could be toxic to the environment.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

[/I]I am not an Alchemist, but the Freemasons who constructed these tunnels and shaft were.

No factual evidence of man made tunnels or shaft has ever been found in regards to the money pit or flood tunnels hoax.

 

[NGE]

If you dig deep enough in the bottom of the Detroit river on Belle Isle, in Detroit, Michigan. Two to four feet below the sand there, you will find heavy blue clay, it doesn't stink and is very heavy and sticky. Pottery has been made from it by the native Indians in the past. This is on the west side of the island very near the current swimming beach. I have dug "cone top" beer cans about 3 feet deep in this clay layer. They come out looking like the day they were tossed in the water. Upon being exposed to the air, you can watch them disappear right in front of your eyes! Never ever have I seen this happen before. Also, no visible animal life is seen in this goo, may be some microscopic stuff but, I don't carry a microscope with me when I am water detecting. By the way, this is as close to 100% fresh water as you can get. NGE

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If you dig deep enough in the bottom of the Detroit river on Belle Isle, in Detroit, Michigan. Two to four feet below the sand there, you will find heavy blue clay,....

NGE, you know what this means don't you ?? It means there's a certain TREASURE there on Belle Isle in Detroit, MI ! So hold on, I'm grabbing my shovel, and hopping on the first plane to Michigan. Will you help me dig ? We split it 50/50 !

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Detroit is an anagram for "et Droit", which means "my Right" in Latin. And if you stand on Belle Isle and look out the mouth of the Detroit River and extend that line to the right as far as the Atlantic Ocean IT COMES OUT AT MAHONE BAY/OAK ISLAND! (Really, i just tried it!)

Proof that the Templars treasured coconut fibers beyond all else (many times it has been stated here that you couldn't find them in North America; unlike gold) and so that IS the treasure of Oak Island. A rich horde of coir.

 

[lokiblossom]

Detroit is an anagram for "et Droit", which means "my Right" in Latin. And if you stand on Belle Isle and look out the mouth of the Detroit River and extend that line to the right as far as the Atlantic Ocean IT COMES OUT AT MAHONE BAY/OAK ISLAND! (Really, i just tried it!)

Proof that the Templars treasured coconut fibers beyond all else (many times it has been stated here that you couldn't find them in North America; unlike gold) and so that IS the treasure of Oak Island. A rich horde of coir.

Nice try Charlie, but the word Detroit means "strait" such as the "Detroit de Mackinac"!
Cheers, Loki

 

[Roadhse2]

Charlie P.

I think you have solved the puzzle, even with a few facts a little skewed...which is nothing new for any Oak Island story.

200 years of looking for what was right under their feet all along.......sounds perfect to me, no need to dig, just bend over and pick it up...

Wonder what circa 1100 Templar coir is going for nowadays? Guess I'll go check Ebay

 

[Robot]

Evidence...You Can't Handle The Evidence!

No factual evidence of man made tunnels or shaft has ever been found in regards to the money pit or flood tunnels hoax.

 

[Robot]

Yes. War pits Brother Against Brother, Methodist Against Methodist, Freemason Against

I guess then it was a case of them being trapped in an unwinnable war because they were fighting among themselves?

They could have just started over. That war was only a couple dozen years from when they were first organized.

For My Generation:

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Detroit is an anagram for "et Droit", which means "my Right" in Latin. And if you stand on Belle Isle and look out the mouth of the Detroit River and extend that line to the right as far as the Atlantic Ocean IT COMES OUT AT MAHONE BAY/OAK ISLAND! (Really, i just tried it!)

Proof that the Templars treasured coconut fibers beyond all else (many times it has been stated here that you couldn't find them in North America; unlike gold) and so that IS the treasure of Oak Island. A rich horde of coir.

This is all utterly beyond coincidence. And anyone who disagrees simply hasn't looked at the coconut fiber evidences, the layout of the stones, the compass lines, and doesn't know their Latin ! I'm boarding the next plane out there, with my shovel in hand ! Afterall, we all know the templars and freemasons were up to no good.

Excellent work Charlie.

 

[gazzahk]

Robot...

There is a freshwater 'lens' of water that rides on top of seawater when it encounters ground sourced freshwater..this leads to a process that produces a hydrogen based poisonous gas I was reading about earlier when looking up information about cave dwelling marine life. It is said to be one of the hazards of deep diving in caves where this gas can be trapped in an air pocket a diver may come up into and exposed to and several have died as the result..

I did not save the link...but I immediately thought of the Restalls and that this is what got them, that they hit a pocket of this naturally forming gas...

Just found it interesting...

Just reading some other things and noticed that - "The August 1965 autopsies and NS coronor's report determined that all four had died by drowning at the bottom of the 27-foot shaft, and suggested that it was carbon monoxide poisoning (from fumes emenating from the gasoline-powered pump that was running at the surface and, being heavier than air, filled the pit) which caused Robert Restall, his son Bobbie, Karl Graeser, and Cyril Hiltz each to lose consciousness and fall off the ladder and into the bottom of the watery shaft."

 

[Real of Tayopa]

The preferred method is to chelate heavy metals with massive doses of vit C . I personally know, since I have beem poisoned by both Arsenic and cyanide due to carelessness in assaying - no excuse, just familiarity. I am not dead just smell that way,I need to fix the hot water heater in the shower.

Incidentaly As is a poor choice for protecting something, You can generally make off with a treasure before any acute symtoms appear.

 

[Robot]

Death By Carbon Monoxide...I Do Not Believe So!

Just reading some other things and noticed that - "The August 1965 autopsies and NS coronor's report determined that all four had died by drowning at the bottom of the 27-foot shaft, and suggested that it was carbon monoxide poisoning (from fumes emenating from the gasoline-powered pump that was running at the surface and, being heavier than air, filled the pit) which caused Robert Restall, his son Bobbie, Karl Graeser, and Cyril Hiltz each to lose consciousness and fall off the ladder and into the bottom of the watery shaft."

Robert Restall, with his work with combustible engines was very aware of the dangers of "Carbon Monoxide".

This was first reported as the "Cause of Death".

The Canadian Government (without an autopsy) then changed it to "Hydrogen Sulfide" with the explanation that apples had fallen into the hole.

Robert Restall would have been very aware of the rotten egg smell associated with this poison, but it was never reported.

No, the rapid rate of death for all four in my opinion could only have been contributed to...Hydrogen Cyanide...from the Pure Prussian
Blue the Freemasons had placed in this tunnel.

It was very ironic that the only evidence Robert Restall had found, was a sign with the number 1704 on it...The Year that the Freemasons discovered the Lethal Poison...Cyanide...from pure Prussian Blue.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Thank you Doctor Robot.


Hydrogen Sulfide kills in seconds ("within a few breaths" per PESH and OSHA). That is better (or worse!) than the Nazi's Zyclon-B (Hydrogen Cyanide). We are not allowed to assist a "man down" if we see them laying on the floor in our facility below ground because of that. We have a confined space arrangement with the local Fire Department and they are called BEFORE workers enter to work in a confined space so they will be able to keep EMTs ready to respond.

You are still apparently confusing Prussian Blue for Prussic Acid (Hydrogen Cyanide).

Do you know why there are "Fish Kills" in shallow lakes that ice up? Trapped Hydrogen Sulfide gas from rotting plants that can't out-gas because of the ice.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/hydrogen_sulfide.html

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

PS - the stone would have said "1706". a Swiss pigment maker came up with the process. Not a Mason, Templer, Alien or Pirate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Jacob_Diesbach

30 years before the first Masonic Lodge was organized.

 

[gazzahk]

The Canadian Government (without an autopsy) then changed it to "Hydrogen Sulfide" with the explanation that apples had fallen into the hole.

Do you have a source for this? I cannot find any reference to the claim (did not look that hard).

The reported stories do make the exhaust fumes theory seem pretty week

ie

The third, fourth, fifth, and sixth tragedy all happened on the same day. This was the greatest tragedy on the island. It is known as the Restall Family Tragedy. On Tuesday, August 17, 1965, shortly after 1:00pm, a man named Robert Restall Sr. was checking a shaft along the beach where he and his son had been working on previously, when out of nowhere, a poisonous gas started to evade the shaft and he lost consciousness and fell into the watery shaft. His oldest son Robert Restall Jr. saw his father fall into the shaft and he ran after him and jumped into the shaft to try and save him. A couple of nearby diggers for the Restall family saw Robert Jr. jump into the hole and they also ran after to help. They all jumped into the hole and were killed from the poisonous gas inside the hole. That was a truly devastating and shocking day for anyone on the island or who has dug on the island. The Restall family packed up and left shortly after this devastating day.

Tragedy's - The Oak Island Mystery (sample of what most seem to say)..

That does not look like exhaust fumes if this is what actually happened. I have not seen any other references to gas being found on oak island when people digging.

Given that the cause of death was drowning what is the origin of the gas report... It also seems pretty 'questionable' that one after another these 4 people all just saw the previous person collapse and fall down the hole.. Then went over and the same thing happened to them..

 

[Dave Rishar]

Prussian Blue is not just an innocent Dye

Yes, it is. I know that you're not a chemist and I'm not either, but this is what the chemists say. Simply having an element that's dangerous on its own in a chemical compound does not necessarily make the compound dangerous, which is why when you sprinkle some salt on your soup, the soup doesn't explode and you're not overcome by toxic gas. In fact, if you don't get enough salt in your diet, you will die. It's a good thing that when sodium is combined with chlorine, the result does not behave like sodium and chlorine.

Just reading some other things and noticed that - "The August 1965 autopsies and NS coronor's report determined that all four had died by drowning at the bottom of the 27-foot shaft, and suggested that it was carbon monoxide poisoning (from fumes emenating from the gasoline-powered pump that was running at the surface and, being heavier than air, filled the pit) which caused Robert Restall, his son Bobbie, Karl Graeser, and Cyril Hiltz each to lose consciousness and fall off the ladder and into the bottom of the watery shaft."

Carbon monoxide and hydrogen sulfide kill via a similar mechanism, by bonding to the iron in your blood and preventing oxygen from doing the same. Do they leave the same evidence in the body though? I don't know and I don't feel like running this one down. I wonder if poisoning via one can be confused with the other. Probably not, but it's something that's never occurred to me before.

The preferred method is to chelate heavy metals with massive doses of vit C . I personally know, since I have beem poisoned by both Arsenic and cyanide due to carelessness in assaying - no excuse, just familiarity. I am not dead just smell that way,I need to fix the hot water heater in the shower.

Incidentaly As is a poor choice for protecting something, You can generally make off with a treasure before any acute symtoms appear.

You should have been dead ten times over, half a century ago. I no longer trust your preventatives, Joe. I'm now convinced that you're not actually able to die, so your solutions to preventing death are probably invalid.

The Canadian Government (without an autopsy) then changed it to "Hydrogen Sulfide" with the explanation that apples had fallen into the hole.

That's a rather odd qualifier. Apples are not required. A wet hole in the ground is sufficient on its own.

Robert Restall would have been very aware of the rotten egg smell associated with this poison, but it was never reported.

Skip back a page or two. When the levels are high enough, you'll only catch a whiff...maybe not even that.

No, the rapid rate of death for all four in my opinion could only have been contributed to...Hydrogen Cyanide...

Define rapid. This stuff is deadly, but it works over minutes, not seconds. Believe it or not, I had training on how to deal with this a decade or two ago, in another life. The main takeaway from that was that if you smell bitter almonds, it's time to go. What I'm taking away from Wikipedia is that this is basically correct, but one or two of the guys with you may not smell it, as it's a genetic thing. Fortunately I never had to find out whether or not I could smell it. It would have only been an issue if things had gone terribly wrong, which they never have.

Before anyone asks, some torpedoes run on a fuel that produces hydrogen cyanide when it ignites. A fuel fire would produce this. The focus was on putting the damned fire out. Best defense is a good offense and all of that. I'm just remembering the highlights.

from the Pure Prussian
Blue the Freemasons had placed in this tunnel.

As a reminder, if they placed "Pure Prussian Blue" in there, it's non-toxic. If they placed hydrogen cyanide in there, it's not blue. In either case, it may not fit with your timeline. There are dates associated with both substances.

Fish kills are another subject entirely, and a very interesting one. We've had a few over the years out here, including an ongoing "fish massacre" in the Hood Canal. There are a couple of workable theories that can explain this. I'm fairly confident in one of them. It doesn't involve hydrogen cyanide. None of the others do either. Things may be different in your neck of the woods, but I'd look at the existing theories before advancing one like this. We don't know everything about anything, but we usually know something about that thing.

Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.