Not possible digging that deep.

[Roadhse2]

Ok....No crabs

But over a 200+ year timespan you don't think sea life would breach this tunnel at some point and expand in range down it in the normal course of living? That some sign of sea life would be in these shafts, vaults or caverns? What is that 0.00001 eel eating? No signs of any crustaceans at all...worms, barnacles. But here is some info on one my favorite things to eat, that you are familiar with...found in sea caves with no sunlight. These are also not life forms that have adapted to no light over millions of years, like there are 1000 feet and below in the ocean where no sunlight penetrates. There's plenty more, but mainly from Marine Biology papers and simply to long to print portions out here. So yes I would expect some sign of sea life in the OI tunnel, shafts and caverns.

Britannica: Have any cave animals developed a “commuter lifestyle”? In other words, are there animals able to move between open water environments and cave environments?

Iliffe: Along the coastline of the Mediterranean Sea, partially or totally submerged cave entrances lead to more or less extensive networks of submerged tunnels and galleries. Mysids, a type of small, shrimp-like crustacean, spend their days in the dark interior of such caves but move out to the ocean at night to feed, before returning to the sanctuary of the cave at day break. Caves on the sea floor in the Bahamas are called ocean blue holes and have very strong, tidally reversing currents. For six hours, seawater is drawn into these caves with such force that whirlpools form on the surface above them. Then the tide changes and for another six hours, water is expelled so strongly that visible mounds can form on the surface of the sea above them. Only for a brief period at slack tide when the currents decease and change direction, is it possible for divers to enter and explore these systems. Lobsters are found even deep in the interior of many ocean blue holes where they subsist on food sucked into the cave by the current. Animals in such submarine caves are typically not cave adapted, yet some of them over time may evolve necessary adaptations to allow them to make the transition to the much more isolated realm of anchialine caves.

 

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[Dave Rishar]

Dave...

I wasn't going to revisit this as i am sure everyone is bored to death with it...so just a couple of points to clarify

The "well" is NOT used to concentrate the solution, it is merely a holding facility to work out of while new water is added to the pond to begin evaporating and concentrate the water left in the pond even more, the climate being a large factor in this, short summers you want to get as much as you can, letting water into the well, let's you do this. While it may not double your yield in the same time period, it does increase it. Anywhere from 8.9 oz per gallon with straight sea water to maximum density of 2 pounds per gallon concentrated before it falls out of solution...

There is/was a large basin to concentrate the water in, the area separating the sea from the shore created by the cofferdam, maybe not by today's standards of acres of ponds, but enough to satisfy the need of the fishing company.

No, no, I get all of that. I think that we may be talking over one another.

The point that I'm trying to make is that there won't be significant evaporation going on in a well - it's mostly going to be down to boiling the seawater. Now, I could have my crew spend some time erecting a cofferdam and digging trenches to bring the seawater to a big hole (that they also most likely had to dig) so that we can bucket-brigade the water from there into a big kettle for boiling, or we can skip the trenches and simply bucket-brigade the water directly from the ocean to that same kettle.

That having been said, there might be other factors at work. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but it seems illogical to me based on the evidence that I've seen. I can't disprove it, it just doesn't make sense to me at this time. But a lot of things don't make sense to me. As a theory, I find it far less illogical (and better supported by the evidence) than the idea of actors yet to be identified digging a 200 foot deep hole in the middle of nowhere and chucking something important in there.

View attachment 1400466

I believe "Nothing Short" of Showing the Oak Island Treasure...Would Satisfy Our Critics!

That would admittedly shut us up in short order.

This last bit is not directed at Robot, but is presented as general information to save me from making another post. The marine life issue? It's not an issue...or rather, it's a very significant issue, but it's not really something that can be debated. This is what seawater systems on ships typically look like when you break them open:



That's not the result of centuries of use, or even years. That happens in a month or two. Depending on the water conditions, it can happen even more quickly than that. Light is not required. Hell, most of these things don't even have eyes in the first place. Why would a sedentary filter-feeder need eyes? Some of the micro organisms that they feed on do require light, but they go where the water takes them. If that's into a tunnel, something will be waiting there to eat them. All that is required is the flow of seawater.

What makes this type of life even more useful to proving or disproving the flow of seawater is that when they die, their remains are cemented in place and stick around for a long time. Those of you unfortunate enough to have to remove these remains from an object likely understand the truth of that statement. Hell, even when you bust a barnacle off, you're left with that patch of "cement" that stuck them down in the first place. Want that gone? You may as well remove the substrate that it's attached to. It's not coming off any other way without chemicals, and those are the sorts of chemicals that don't exist naturally in the ocean. So we wouldn't just be able to tell from these that seawater is flowing through the area, but I'm fairly certain that if seawater was flowing through the area at an earlier time but had stopped a century or two ago, we'd still have evidence that these creatures had been there.

I don't know why this had never occurred to me before, but now that it's on the table, it's a potential game changer. If seawater was there for any length of time during the timeline that we're discussing, there would be evidence of marine life. Period. Full stop. Find that evidence and we know that the ocean was there. Can't find that evidence? Then keep looking, because as a go/no-go test, it doesn't get any simpler or more conclusive than this. If seawater wasn't flowing to the Money Pit somehow, the legend collapses. And if the legend collapses, why in the hell are we digging holes all over that poor island in the first place?

By the way, here's a link to that website: Barnales / Biofouling in sea water feed line of Boskalis' Waterway They're selling a solution to marine biofouling. If you go to the menu on the left, there are various case studies to peruse. You'll see everything from barnacles to algea, including previous (and unsuccessful) attempts to stop the problem, chemical treatments being among them. Not only do marine critters have no problems with setting up shop in pipes, condensors, sea chests, and presumably underground tunnels, but preventing them from doing so is a nearly impossible task. Assuming that a coconut husk "filter" would somehow impede their progress is ignoring just how tenacious these things are, and how aggressively they'll colonize anything that they can get to.

 

[Roadhse2]

Dave...

Very first sentence...

The WELL is NOT used for evaporating the water...at all...

It is used to collect already condensed water...

So that more water can be let in beyond the cofferdam to start condensing into the water that is still present...increasing salinity...

Water in the WELL can be processed at this same time, by boiling off in pans or pots

This way they can do two jobs at once...making more condensed % water by sun evaporation AND processing what is in the well

 

[gazzahk]

I don't know why this had never occurred to me before, but now that it's on the table, it's a potential game changer. If seawater was there for any length of time during the timeline that we're discussing, there would be evidence of marine life. Period. Full stop. Find that evidence and we know that the ocean was there. Can't find that evidence? Then keep looking, because as a go/no-go test, it doesn't get any simpler or more conclusive than this. If seawater wasn't flowing to the Money Pit somehow, the legend collapses. And if the legend collapses, why in the hell are we digging holes all over that poor island in the first place? ....

Not that I am seeking to offer support to the flood tunnel theory which I do not believe.... I think this logic is flawed.. The people who 'allegedly' found the flood tunnel (in the pit) said it was blocked with stones. So just for the sake of speculation If the tunnel was dug it may be the case that it was then filled up with stones, coconut fiber, eel grass sand etc to allow water to filter through (same as beach) but not leave any obvious open tunnel that could be found or that may collapse on its own. Thus no significant life would be able to pass through the filter system (This would also explain why no open tunnel has ever been found)... Thus the lack of marine life is not an argument against the existence of a flood tunnel (we also do not know if micro marine life existed in the water also as no one has checked).

Once again I do not believe the flood tunnel theory just commenting on the logic of the hypothesis being put forward....

 

[Roadhse2]

Dave....

This is also exactly the same method used by Morton and others...move the water along to successive ponds as they go down in water level to keep condensing to more salinity to keep production up (highest density) at lowest cost and labor...Morton finalizes theirs in the last pond with total sun evaporation...OI..by removing some of the water, into the well, and boiling it off, since they only have one pond they are able to refresh with more seawater

 

[Dave Rishar]

Dave...

Very first sentence...

The WELL is NOT used for evaporating the water...at all...

It is used to collect already condensed water...

So that more water can be let in beyond the cofferdam to start condensing into the water that is still present...increasing salinity...

Water in the WELL can be processed at this same time, by boiling off in pans or pots

This way they can do two jobs at once...making more condensed % water by sun evaporation AND processing what is in the well

Okay, I think that I have a solid copy on this now. Just so I'm entirely clear on this: tide comes in, seawater is trapped by cofferdam in a lagoon or somesuch, seawater evaporates a bit, resulting brine is carried to central well by a later high tide via finger drains?

Not that I am seeking to offer support to the flood tunnel theory which I do not believe.... I think this logic is flawed.. The people who 'allegedly' found the flood tunnel (in the pit) said it was blocked with stones. So just for the sake of speculation If the tunnel was dug it may be the case that it was then filled up with stones, coconut fiber, eel grass sand etc to allow water to filter through (same as beach) but not leave any obvious open tunnel that could be found or that may collapse on its own. Thus no significant life would be able to pass through the filter system (This would also explain why no open tunnel has ever been found)... Thus the lack of marine life is not an argument against the existence of a flood tunnel (we also do not know if micro marine life existed in the water also as no one has checked).

You didn't visit that link that I provided, did you? I'll save you the trouble. We filter seawater lines on ships. It doesn't work. A lot of these suckers are microscopic (or nearly so) in their juvenile phase. Rocks and fibers are not going to cut it. If seawater can make it through, critters can make it through.

With your last statement, are you referring to the water that flooded the Money Pit, water in other pits in general, or the ocean around the island? If it is the latter, yes, there is micro marine life. I don't have to check to know that it's there. If it's the former, I would not expect there to be any marine life there. The water was reportedly brackish. This is exactly what geology would predict if we were dealing with a porous island in the ocean, which we are. Seawater seeps through the ground and "pushes" against the water table, resulting in a layer of brackish water that rises and falls with the tides - exactly the situation at Oak Island. I would not expect marine life there, as the lack of salinity won't support it. Of course, this does mean that someone at some point might sink a borehole twenty feet from the beach and find marine life, but we'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

Don't trust me on this. Research it on your own. Start by Googling "biofouling" and go from there. It's a problem that we've been dealing with literally for thousands of years and we still haven't solved it yet.

 

[Roadhse2]

Dave...

First...

Cofferdam is built above high tide level...water is let into lagoon through sluice gate in cofferdam to fill lagoon, above finger drains height

Water evaporates to lower level, but still above finger drains..

Sluice gate at well is opened and water enters it till full...Sluice gate closed

Gate is opened again in cofferdam to refill lagoon and then closed...this adds new water with additional salt in it to be condensed into existing water left in lagoon, by evaporation..increasing saline % each time this is done

Start processing water in well...when empty...repeat above..

 

[Robot]

How to Nuke Marine Life ...Biofouling 101..,Courtesy...Freemasons!

We filter seawater lines on ships. It doesn't work. A lot of these suckers are microscopic (or nearly so) in their juvenile phase. Rocks and fibers are not going to cut it. If seawater can make it through, critters can make it through.

With your last statement, are you referring to the water that flooded the Money Pit, water in other pits in general, or the ocean around the island? If it is the latter, yes, there is micro marine life. I don't have to check to know that it's there. If it's the former, I would not expect there to be any marine life there. The water was reportedly brackish. This is exactly what geology would predict if we were dealing with a porous island in the ocean, which we are. Seawater seeps through the ground and "pushes" against the water table, resulting in a layer of brackish water that rises and falls with the tides - exactly the situation at Oak Island. I would not expect marine life there, as the lack of salinity won't support it. Of course, this does mean that someone at some point might sink a borehole twenty feet from the beach and find marine life, but we'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

Don't trust me on this. Research it on your own. Start by Googling "biofouling" and go from there. It's a problem that we've been dealing with literally for thousands of years and we still haven't solved it yet.

The ingenious Water Tunnels designed by the "Freemasons" took into fact every possibility.

They were very aware of the Marine Life present and how to combat them.

Their answer:

Cyanide!

Within the Blue Puddle Clay that mysteriously lines these Tunnels they added: Prussian Blue!



Prussian Blue is a compound that when separated by Sea Water emits "Cyanide" the most lethal poison known to Man Kind.

This Poison was used as a deterrent to any Marine Life and the destructive Torpedo Worm which was capable of destroying all wood within a short period of time.

I believe the death of the Robert Restall family was contributed to by the release of this Poison.

I also believe that the mysterious death of numerous Sea Life around Nova Scotia, may be contributed to this.

Canada fish kill: Up to 20,000 sea creatures wash up on Nova Scotia coast - CNN.com

I do cringe while viewing the Lagina Brothers squeezing the clay between their fingers. that comes up from each drilling down below.

 

[Roadhse2]

Robot...

There is a freshwater 'lens' of water that rides on top of seawater when it encounters ground sourced freshwater..this leads to a process that produces a hydrogen based poisonous gas I was reading about earlier when looking up information about cave dwelling marine life. It is said to be one of the hazards of deep diving in caves where this gas can be trapped in an air pocket a diver may come up into and exposed to and several have died as the result..

I did not save the link...but I immediately thought of the Restalls and that this is what got them, that they hit a pocket of this naturally forming gas...

Just found it interesting...

 

[gazzahk]

You didn't visit that link that I provided, did you? I'll save you the trouble. We filter seawater lines on ships. It doesn't work. A lot of these suckers are microscopic (or nearly so) in their juvenile phase. Rocks and fibers are not going to cut it. If seawater can make it through, critters can make it through.

With your last statement, are you referring to the water that flooded the Money Pit, water in other pits in general, or the ocean around the island? If it is the latter, yes, there is micro marine life. I don't have to check to know that it's there. If it's the former, I would not expect there to be any marine life there. The water was reportedly brackish. This is exactly what geology would predict if we were dealing with a porous island in the ocean, which we are. Seawater seeps through the ground and "pushes" against the water table, resulting in a layer of brackish water that rises and falls with the tides - exactly the situation at Oak Island. I would not expect marine life there, as the lack of salinity won't support it. Of course, this does mean that someone at some point might sink a borehole twenty feet from the beach and find marine life, but we'll burn that bridge when we get to it....

Dave just for the sake of the discussion as I do not subscribe to the man made flood tunnel theory.. Hope you do not mind..

If this tunnel was sloping down 70 ft over 500+ feet the water would not be flowing through. If there were rocks, coconut fiber etc (And there were reports of coconut fiber rocks from the original people that sprung the trap (I seem to remember reading)) the water would of come in to the tunnel when they removed the coffer dam. It would of then sat in there in the sand, rocks, etc for over 200 years with no movement, no oxygen etc. Even when the trap was sprung only the water sitting in the tunnel at the very bottom of flowed into the hole. Nothing from the sea could of come through as the whole tunnel would need to be emptied. This water would never remix with the ocean. There is not much chance anything significant lived in the dirt, sand, rocks at bottom of alleged shaft for hundreds of years. At most it would only be at the very top.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Robot - Prussian Blue was used to dye the German Army Uniforms. It is VERY stable and insoluble in water. Yes, it contains cyanide - but fixed to iron. It is no longer labile at that point. Ricin is MUCH more toxic to humans than cyanide. In fact, Prussian Blue is given to people internally for cases of heavy metal poisoning as a treatment.

We had a bunch where I worked for staining metal before machining (to make sure valve flanges were machined perfectly flat). On slow days it also ended up on telephone earpieces. No one died - though a few were threatened afterwards.

 

[kidd]

Maybe they should hire Todd Hoffman from Gold Rush he isnt doing anything right now.

 

[Robot]

Oh those "Prussians"

Robot - Prussian Blue was used to dye the German Army Uniforms. It is VERY stable and insoluble in water. Yes, it contains cyanide - but fixed to iron. It is no longer labile at that point. Ricin is MUCH more toxic to humans than cyanide. In fact, Prussian Blue is given to people internally for cases of heavy metal poisoning as a treatment.

We had a bunch where I worked for staining metal before machining (to make sure valve flanges were machined perfectly flat). On slow days it also ended up on telephone earpieces. No one died - though a few were threatened afterwards.

I believe this report shows that Prussian Blue becomes soluble when the ph environment exceeds 6 ph.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es00033a019?journalCode=esthag


Ocean water coming into contact with Prussian Blue in the Oak Island Tunnels and Shaft would be 8.2 ph

"Over the past 300 million years, ocean pH has been slightly basic, averaging about 8.2. Today, it is around 8.1, a drop of 0.1 pH units, representing a 25-percent increase in acidity over the past two centuries."

I would also presume that the Heavy Metals buried in the Oak Island Shaft from the scuttling of the Spanish Galleons and Navy ships along with their reaction to salt water, would greatly increase the ph levels...maybe adding Ammonia to this equation.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

But ferric cyanide ("iron cyanide" - Prussian Blue) is not hydrogen cyanide (poison). Different molecule.

You just have liquid blue dye.

Read your article further - "because of the kinetic stability of iron cyanide ions, the iron present in these complexes will not take part in chemical reactions". Like shedding iron to accept hydrogen atoms.


And here we spiral off again with something that has no connection to Oak Island. Has anyone found traces of Prussian Blue on Oak Island? Why bring it up?

 

[Dave Rishar]

Dave...

First...

Okay, now I have it for sure.

Within the Blue Puddle Clay that mysteriously lines these Tunnels they added: Prussian Blue!

As others have already mentioned, Prussian blue is just dye. It's nontoxic and insoluable in water. You may be thinking of Prussic acid (hydrogen cyanide) which is derived from it. That's extremely toxic, but it's colorless. It was also completely unknown to the world until 1752 and the process for making it was not really understood for another thirty years or so, so there may be some timetable issues with this. Prussian blue was around for fifty years or so before that, but again, it's nontoxic.

Robot...

There is a freshwater 'lens' of water that rides on top of seawater when it encounters ground sourced freshwater..this leads to a process that produces a hydrogen based poisonous gas I was reading about earlier when looking up information about cave dwelling marine life. It is said to be one of the hazards of deep diving in caves where this gas can be trapped in an air pocket a diver may come up into and exposed to and several have died as the result..

Are you thinking of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_sulfide I deal with this sometimes at work. It's toxic, but is easily detected via its rather pungent aroma. (It smells like rotten egg farts. In fact, that's why rotten egg farts smell like rotten egg farts.) The dangerous part is that you quickly lose the ability to detect it under constant exposure, so it's fairly easy to walk from a space with safe levels into another space with unsafe levels without your nose letting you know that it's getting stronger.

Dave just for the sake of the discussion as I do not subscribe to the man made flood tunnel theory.. Hope you do not mind..

I don't mind at all. I'm here to learn.

If this tunnel was sloping down 70 ft over 500+ feet the water would not be flowing through. If there were rocks, coconut fiber etc (And there were reports of coconut fiber rocks from the original people that sprung the trap (I seem to remember reading)) the water would of come in to the tunnel when they removed the coffer dam. It would of then sat in there in the sand, rocks, etc for over 200 years with no movement, no oxygen etc. Even when the trap was sprung only the water sitting in the tunnel at the very bottom of flowed into the hole. Nothing from the sea could of come through as the whole tunnel would need to be emptied. This water would never remix with the ocean. There is not much chance anything significant lived in the dirt, sand, rocks at bottom of alleged shaft for hundreds of years. At most it would only be at the very top.

But the water would initially fill the tunnel, yeah? And when the trap was sprung, the water would move some more - the bottom would empty out, the top would refill the bottom, and the top would refill from the ocean. I'd expect more water movement when they tried to pump out the pit. There wouldn't necessarily be a lot of water moving, but there would be fresh seawater introduced (at least at the top) on several occasions.

 

[Roadhse2]

Dave...

"Okay, now I have it for sure."

Whew! What seems so simple in my mind was starting to become impossible to explain any further, so glad we have that cleared up. Agree or not, thanks for the interest...

Hydrogen sulfide,,,yes that was it..and I believe a rotten egg smell was reported along with the Restall incident

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Anywhere you get vegetation rotting in water you can get Hydrogen Sulfide. It's a natural by-product. As Dave R. stated we have that caution at work as well (wastewater treatment plant) and cannot enter confined spaces alone or without detectors.

If it is concentrated enough to kill you it does so before you smell it. Instantly numbs the olfactory senses and you're dead. Bad stuff.

 

[Roadhse2]

Thanks for the info Dave R, Charlie P.

I think the smell was detected on their clothing/bodies after they were recovered from the shaft...read it so long ago, I am not sure where, but should be with any info on the Restall accident..

 

[gazzahk]

But the water would initially fill the tunnel, yeah? And when the trap was sprung, the water would move some more - the bottom would empty out, the top would refill the bottom, and the top would refill from the ocean. I'd expect more water movement when they tried to pump out the pit. There wouldn't necessarily be a lot of water moving, but there would be fresh seawater introduced (at least at the top) on several occasions.

True but that tunnel is 500+ feet A hell of a lot of water would have to move before water from the top got to the bottom. Therefore I cannot see any ocean life in the water in the flood tunnel.

Still is is largely a hypothetical situation in that nether of us believe the man made flood tunnel existed

Have you read this article: Does science support a man-made flood tunnel on Oak Island? The Blockhouse Blog - The Oak Island Compendium I had zero belief in the possibility of a man made tunnel until I read this 'experts' analysis. This has made me wonder (still do not believe but less certain of my own view now)......

 

[NGE]

I think they used "Natural" caves and tunnels.