new show on the dutchman

[deducer]

Sorry, but some may be unaware of current off-the-shelf drone technologies available to the public. I could stand at the foot of this ladder and fly a first person perspective quad copter drone right up into the cave with no problem at all. The ladder is very wide, and the drones are not that wide. Many such drones are less wide than human shoulders, and could navigate through tunnels at will. Of course you couldn't travel down long sections of tunnels without signal loss, which is why some people use battery powered signal repeaters that the drones drop off every so often to maintain their flight and video links. And I don't use 3g or wifi, I use other frequencies that deal with obstacles better.

But again, I am not promoting the idea that such drones should be employed to explore this cave.

C'mon, folks, don't fall for this obvious ploy. There are many other areas where you could put such drone technology to better use than to think there is something in this cave worthy of your efforts. And all it would take is a confused bat flying into one of your props to crash your drone in a very hard to reach place. Or even bat crap falling into one of them from above. You won't catch me trying to use a drone to explore this cave, I have better ways to waste my time.

This is the last time I'll respond to drone-related posts, but the only thing I've learned from you and RM1976 is that neither of you have ever flown a drone, or you'd know how difficult it is to control or hold steady, never mind maneuver up the inside of a cave that gets narrower.

The production company had a drone at the Bat Cave, but if you look at the footage taken from the drone, you'll realize that all of them were taken outside the cave, and none were taken inside the confines of the cave or going up it. You may want to think about that for a moment.

 

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[UncleMatt]

Its interesting, as far as I know its still illegal to use drone captured video for any commercial purposes....

 

[UncleMatt]

If you are determined to explore this cave via drone, We look forward to your drone video RMG1976!

 

[UncleMatt]

But my point was the legality of video taken from drones for commercial purposes, like advertising real estate for example, or for use in treasure hunting shows on tv....

 

[UncleMatt]

Yes, but if Realtors are taking such drone footage to advertise their real estate listings, as far as I know that is technically illegal. I'm hopeful all permits were acquired for this show though, and think the FAA and current laws regarding drones are stuck in the last century. There are probably so many violations of drone rules these days that the FAA simply can't address them all with legal action, and hopefully the laws will soon catch up.

What really needs to happen is the definition of "line of sight" to include flying from a first-person video perspective, whether or not you can actually see the drone with the naked eye from your location on the ground. My on screen display gives me as much information about my drone as many commercial pilots see on their cockpit dashboards, including altitude, speed, heading, gps location, etc.

 

[deducer]

Yes, but if Realtors are taking such drone footage to advertise their real estate listings, as far as I know that is technically illegal. I'm hopeful all permits were acquired for this show though, and think the FAA and current laws regarding drones are stuck in the last century. There are probably so many violations of drone rules these days that the FAA simply can't address them all with legal action, and hopefully the laws will soon catch up.

Not illegal as long as you are staying within class G airspace. IIRC, drones are allowed up to 400' except in commercial and air traffic areas such as airports, I think.

 

[UncleMatt]

I already clearly stated why RMH1976: the commercial use of drones is still illegal in the USA. Using video footage captured from drones to advertise properties that are for sale is a commercial purpose - to make money off the sale of the real estate. I can't be much more clear than I already have been.

 

[UncleMatt]

A very informative resource for drone pilots: Drone Law

 

[Hal Croves]

@UncleMatt Commercial purposes is quite ambiguous. My intentions are 2. 1) Post on YouTube 2) find out for myself and others that share my curiosity with actual video proof.

I am quite sure that the production company applied for, and were granted, commercial shooting permits for their series.

Commercial ≠ YouTube posted by a private party.

Real Estate (Private Property) you can film in your house with anything you'd like.

I'll link this again. Its a fantastic video shot with a drone inside the superstitions. Its really well done.

Flying Apache Trail

Your venture sounds like it is exempt from the commercial filming rules. If your intention really is to share it via public media, without compensation. I think that you are good to go. Hats off to you for the idea. But don't dismiss the warnings you were given. They were given to you with good intentions as you will appreciate once you are there. Just be careful and have a backup plan incase the drone losses contact. That climber I wrote about would be a great backup if the drone gets stuck.

Now about the cross that you are searching for. Here I can help you by example. A Jesuit cross or crucifix, the personal ones anyway were created within a certain size restraint. There are two size to consider. I am not going to post those sizes because they are my bullshit filters. The larger for caskets and burial and the smaller to be worn by the individual. Anything outside of this size range, and you should start to be suspicious. Now, much larger crosses were made, but they are stationary items, not meant for travel.

Here is a Jesuit crucifix that was unearthed while excavating a foundation in.... Well it was found in Franks home state. It was found, cleaned, documented, and this is where the mystery starts... It was donated to a museum. The problem is, that museum, to the best of my research ability, did not exist. Someone representing a museum took it, and it was never seen again. I have been hunting it for six months with no luck.

Anyway, if you find one, please measure it and record your findings. That's a big IF.

A word of advice. Take a second camera to film the drone making that climb. If something goes wrong and disaster strikes, you will have some great footage.

 

[UncleMatt]

lol, people need to read the laws currently in force, and not operate from opinion. I know a Realtor in Durango, CO who had to obtain a special permit to take video footage from his drone for use in the sale of real estate. Unless the owner of the property is taking video from a drone themselves, it is still technically illegal to do so if you are are acting to sell another person's property to receive pay for doing so. Not my opinion, but the law. Please feel free to point out chapter and verse from the law if you disagree. I have already posted a resource above that shows I am correct.

 

[Hal Croves]

lol, people need to read the laws currently in force, and not operate from opinion. I know a Realtor in Durango, CO who had to obtain a special permit to take video footage from his drone for use in the sale of real estate. Unless the owner of the property is taking video from a drone themselves, it is still technically illegal to do so if you are are acting to sell another person's property to receive pay for doing so. Not my opinion, but the law. Please feel free to point out chapter and verse from the law if you disagree. I have already posted a resource above that shows I am correct.

Actually you are correct. This law is about to be overturned thanks to pressure from drone training facilities. Once the curriculum is accepted, and rules set in place, the commercial use ban will be lifted. It a good rule because of the obvious privacy violations. Flying a drone up to spy on someone in hospital is the most recent example.

Good post!

 

[azdave35]

Oh Deducer - apology accepted. After all, its just the internet.

I am in no way a newbie - and I am not barging in anywhere beating my chest. I presented an idea - some people love it and are going to join me - then others (you) think I'm a delusional fool. At the end of the day, it's what makes life exciting.

Now one thing I AM curious about, is your extensive knowledge of the area - which I do NOT have. I don't plan to go spelunking - nor do I have any intention of getting that drone inside of the upper cave / chambers. I know you have said time and time again - there is NOTHING THERE. So clearly you've been up side of the bat cave (did you wear a gas mask?). Do you by chance, or anyone else on the forum, have footage of that?

I am unsure if anyone on these forums have used ultra-modern tech in their treasure hunting pursuits - but it begs the question - WHY NOT? All tools are good tools. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't see the issue with using a drone, or a helmet with a GoPro attached to it. Having video footage of all of OUR adventures is a lot of fun. I can't tell you how may times I've been doing something - had a GoPro - go home to watch the footage and see things I didn't see in person. You should consider getting one on your next hike.

You don't need to eat crow - but I know I could duct-tape you. =)

nobody called you a delusional fool..we were just trying to convince you that there is no cross or treasure in that cave...but if you want to fly your little toy up there ..go ahead and knock yourself out..but i dont think you should be threatening to duct tape anyone on here..you may be a big bully where you come from but up in the mountains your just another greenhorn

 

[deducer]

Oh Deducer - apology accepted. After all, its just the internet.

I am in no way a newbie - and I am not barging in anywhere beating my chest. I presented an idea - some people love it and are going to join me - then others (you) think I'm a delusional fool. At the end of the day, it's what makes life exciting.

Now one thing I AM curious about, is your extensive knowledge of the area - which I do NOT have. I don't plan to go spelunking - nor do I have any intention of getting that drone inside of the upper cave / chambers. I know you have said time and time again - there is NOTHING THERE. So clearly you've been up side of the bat cave (did you wear a gas mask?). Do you by chance, or anyone else on the forum, have footage of that?

I am unsure if anyone on these forums have used ultra-modern tech in their treasure hunting pursuits - but it begs the question - WHY NOT? All tools are good tools. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't see the issue with using a drone, or a helmet with a GoPro attached to it. Having video footage of all of OUR adventures is a lot of fun. I can't tell you how may times I've been doing something - had a GoPro - go home to watch the footage and see things I didn't see in person. You should consider getting one on your next hike.

You don't need to eat crow - but I know I could duct-tape you. =)

No problem, looking forward to the footage you'll be posting. You're saying you'll be getting that done within the next few days so I look forward to seeing the link sometimes next week, and if there are none, I'm sure you'll be issuing a mea culpa of your own. And yes, you are a newbie.

And as far as my knowledge of the Superstition Mountains, I have neither the time or inclination to discuss that in depth. You say you know what you're doing, so you don't need any advice from me.

Good luck and don't get hurt; be sure to wear clothes you wouldn't mind stinking up.

Save that duct tape for something useful such as taping that drone back together.

 

[Hal Croves]

@HalCroves THANK YOU for those tips.

The majority of you guys and gals are extremely dedicated in your passion to find the LDM. Some of you equate to walking dictionaries of LDM lore. That's impressive.

Makes complete sense with size restraints of the cross - to ensure their validity.

When you saw the cross in the cave (let's pretend it was there and was actually embedded in the wall many many years ago) Did you see that cross as authentic? Was the size within specs? (given what we could all see on TV)

At the end of my "mission" my goal is to deduce truth about what the series propagates. I think its disrespectful to turn such a massive legend into a day at Chuck-E-Cheese.

I've got all my buddies watching the show - and without exception, each one of them says its ridiculous and totally staged. That takes away from the excitement and dumbs down the audience. Who wants to be a part of that?

And "Sarge", if you happen to read this, you've spent so much time finding truths about the lore - why discount all your efforts for a paycheck or 15 minutes of fame?

(also, lets ALL keep in mind - without verbal voice fluctuations, don't read my posts as me acting like a gorilla - I wouldn't be posting here as much as I have within the past 24 hours if that were the case)

Truth is that even the most obnoxious pricks on this site don't want to see you hurt in your attempt. As a group, I think it's fair to say we are still wrestling with the deaths that have occurred in the last four years. Those deaths add a taint to the mystery and to those chasing after it. No one is sitting on some great secret about the Bat Cave.

I can not comment on the show because I don't have access to it. I did go out of my way to see episode 3 and had high hopes but there was so much laughter in the room I lost interest. I would however watch your video.

 

[azdave35]

I believe at this point, Deducer and I are just having fun with each other. At least I am.

Deducer doesn't think I am actually threatening him - nor do I take offense to the things he keeps telling me.

Laugh and smile every once in a while - its good for the soul. He's already had two good laughs from me - and that's great!

lol....believe me...i've been laughing ever since i got on this thread...what cracks me up is people believe the crap they put on these reality shows..you would think they learned from watching lying idiots on shows such as pawn stars...storage wars..american pickers that its all b.s.

 

[wrmickel1]

Your venture sounds like it is exempt from the commercial filming rules. If your intention really is to share it via public media, without compensation. I think that you are good to go. Hats off to you for the idea. But don't dismiss the warnings you were given. They were given to you with good intentions as you will appreciate once you are there. Just be careful and have a backup plan incase the drone losses contact. That climber I wrote about would be a great backup if the drone gets stuck.

Now about the cross that you are searching for. Here I can help you by example. A Jesuit cross or crucifix, the personal ones anyway were created within a certain size restraint. There are two size to consider. I am not going to post those sizes because they are my bullshit filters. The larger for caskets and burial and the smaller to be worn by the individual. Anything outside of this size range, and you should start to be suspicious. Now, much larger crosses were made, but they are stationary items, not meant for travel.

Here is a Jesuit crucifix that was unearthed while excavating a foundation in.... Well it was found in Franks home state. It was found, cleaned, documented, and this is where the mystery starts... It was donated to a museum. The problem is, that museum, to the best of my research ability, did not exist. Someone representing a museum took it, and it was never seen again. I have been hunting it for six months with no luck.

Anyway, if you find one, please measure it and record your findings. That's a big IF.

A word of advice. Take a second camera to film the drone making that climb. If something goes wrong and disaster strikes, you will have some great footage.

Exactly Hal
Private non commercial use is legal and in some private industries such as films and porno ect. The government is building a Hugh test strip north of me. Grand Forks ND.

Wrmickel1
One there gonna test is called the swarm little dragon flies that attach to there targets neck and a small charge pops there heads off.


O wait I made that one up

 

[Hal Croves]

lol....believe me...i've been laughing ever since i got on this thread...what cracks me up is people believe the crap they put on these reality shows..you would think they learned from watching lying idiots on shows such as pawn stars...storage wars..american pickers that its all b.s.

Thats the frustration you read in the negative posts. It's difficult enough to understand what's real and what's not real with this legend. Spend a few years researching it and walking the trails and an attachment forms. I have no problem with the show based on what I have heard so far. My only advice would be to add a disclaimer at the beginning and at the end. About recreating certain events and discoveries. That's not a lot to ask and had they done so, Frank and his crew would be sitting on high right now instead of fending off insults.

But, the bed has been made.

 

[sgtfda]

Recheck your numbers Deducer

Episode 6

1932000 viewers.
.05

 

[wrmickel1]

Thats the frustration you read in the negative posts. It's difficult enough to understand what's real and what's not real with this legend. Spend a few years researching it and walking the trails and an attachment forms. I have no problem with the show based on what I have heard so far. My only advice would be to add a disclaimer at the beginning and at the end. About recreating certain events and discoveries. That's not a lot to ask and had they done so, Frank and his crew would be sitting on high right now instead of fending off insults.

But, the bed has been made.

What's real and not real,mostly likely the clues closes to the Dutchman's death. First 5 to 10 clues the rest is mostly add on BS'
I would guess. And the Stone's

Wrmickel1

 

[wrmickel1]

Recheck your numbers Deducer

Episode 6

1932000 viewers.
.05

Good $how Frank hope to see a longer season next Year.

Wrmickel1