new show on the dutchman

deducer said:
That certainly gave me pause when Tuttle said that.

But hey, at least your death helped them "triangulate" and isolate the bat cave as the headquarters of those infernal cloak-wearing Jesuits who apparently walk around in sneakers, if I saw correctly. :tongue3:

The nearest mission the Jesuits had at any time to the Supes, was Xavier del Bac, almost 150 miles to the south and even then wasn't consistently administered until 1756 by Fr. Espinosa. Between singlehandedly building the church, baptizing, preaching, running a mission, and fending off the occasional Apache attack, I'm quite impressed he had the time to sneak in a 300 mile round trip up north via horseback, with the express purpose of booby-trapping a small cave with baling wire!
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One Dark Over Lord of the Underworld Jesuit was all they needed along with a few hundred Free Masons. These priest's claimed power over good and evil. His Majesties Jesuit Warloc was in charge of hiding the Gold for the future recovery under the radar. I think they may still be guarding it!

And of course along with Batman the defender of good in the Supers.

They all got caught Red Handed!
 

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I think they should call the show The Drama Queens, they seem to be afraid of their own shadow. I don't see any real treasure hunters that should have that quality, if your not willing to take some risk you shouldn't be in some places. I really don't see the need for making markings with all the natural landmarks you could use in that area for making a map. HH
 

Finally got to see last nights show. I must say I was disappointed with the editing. I wanted to hear what clay,and jack had to say. Heck I was very interested in what the pima indian had to say.
I like frank and Im not as critical of the show as some have been,but If all they giong to do is talk to each other. Then why bother bringing legends like clay on the show.
 

Randy,

Obie Stoker drove his old Packard into Second Water by the Question Mark Mine. As I recall, Barry Storm had his sedan all the way to Boulder Basin.

Take care,

Joe
 

Hal Croves said:
Its a shelter, not really a cave and it sits beside a spring and small pond.
The natives were gone from this area fairly early on.
A short hike up from the Delaware River, not to far from sacred Minisink Island.
Lenape. Minsi.
Look above my head.

Not sure about the significance of RED hands and death and there are no treasures associated with this site other than the marks themselves.
It was just an example of authentic hand prints.
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Have you metal detected around that area? Looks pretty cool!
 

As was mentioned a few pages back, the multitude of coroner's reports that conclude a vast majority of deaths in the Sups as suicides seems beyond ridiculous. Now, obviously I haven't seen the reports, nor the evidence first hand, so :dontknow: but based on the stories, how is it nobody has seriously investigated what or who is behind all of this?! If your job was to determine how someone died, and you declare a bullet ridden body a suicide, how do you not get laughed out of the job? Who's the one who gave you that job and has kept you around? Something seems seriously amiss...Maybe I need to start a thread on ATS :laughing7:
 

TheHarleyMan2 said:
Have you metal detected around that area? Looks pretty cool!
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It's on federal land and the site was excavated at the turn of the century. I have poked around some but it was once used as a dump by the local farmer. Detecting would be scrap crazy and if they caught me, it would be confiscated and I would be fined, again. Over the years I have racked up a few hundred in fines just for passing barricades and ignoring no trespass signs. I follow most of the rules and respect gov. employees but if the land is not private, I go where I want. Discreetly.

I don't think it's moral to restrict access to public lands.
 

Kauziamos said:
As was mentioned a few pages back, the multitude of coroner's reports that conclude a vast majority of deaths in the Sups as suicides seems beyond ridiculous. Now, obviously I haven't seen the reports, nor the evidence first hand, so :dontknow: but based on the stories, how is it nobody has seriously investigated what or who is behind all of this?! If your job was to determine how someone died, and you declare a bullet ridden body a suicide, how do you not get laughed out of the job? Who's the one who gave you that job and has kept you around? Something seems seriously amiss...Maybe I need to start a thread on ATS :laughing7:
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I may be mistaken, but I believe the "vast majority" of deaths in the Superstitions have been ruled "due to natural causes" - not suicides. Other than a few cases, I believe they are right.
 

Kauziamos said:
As was mentioned a few pages back, the multitude of coroner's reports that conclude a vast majority of deaths in the Sups as suicides seems beyond ridiculous. Now, obviously I haven't seen the reports, nor the evidence first hand, so :dontknow: but based on the stories, how is it nobody has seriously investigated what or who is behind all of this?! If your job was to determine how someone died, and you declare a bullet ridden body a suicide, how do you not get laughed out of the job? Who's the one who gave you that job and has kept you around? Something seems seriously amiss...Maybe I need to start a thread on ATS :laughing7:
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Kauz,

The Supes have always been a bit of a problem for law enforcement. It's rough/hot as hell in there and the dividing line between Maricopa and Pinal County runs right through it. Investigating deaths is difficult at best. No officer, from either county, looks forward to drawing that short straw.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
 

Kauziamos said:
As was mentioned a few pages back, the multitude of coroner's reports that conclude a vast majority of deaths in the Sups as suicides seems beyond ridiculous. Now, obviously I haven't seen the reports, nor the evidence first hand, so :dontknow: but based on the stories, how is it nobody has seriously investigated what or who is behind all of this?! If your job was to determine how someone died, and you declare a bullet ridden body a suicide, how do you not get laughed out of the job? Who's the one who gave you that job and has kept you around? Something seems seriously amiss...Maybe I need to start a thread on ATS :laughing7:
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You have to look at when the deaths occurred, historically. Forensics has come a long way and if there is no motive, then suicide is a logical conclusion in the SWA. Think about it. You are alone. Your out of water and perhaps injured. There is no hope of rescue and your suffering. Really suffering. That sidearms is your one way ticket out.

Which is one of the reasons that I don't carry a gun. They are heavy, dangerous in the wrong hands, and I have yet to meet anyone who needed one to survive the Sups.

A good hiking stick and or a trusted friend is a far better investment.
 

cactusjumper said:
Kauz,

The Supes have always been a bit of a problem for law enforcement. It's rough/hot as hell in there and the dividing line between Maricopa and Pinal County runs right through it. Investigating deaths is difficult at best. No officer, from either county, looks forward to drawing that short straw.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
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Joe, That's why the need to open them roads up again all the way through the Supers!
That way when your taking your last breath almost ready to blow your brains out one of those Green Weenies comes along a hands you a ticket for potential littering of a wilderness with a corpse.:laughing7:
 

If some of those people that are old and searching most of their life haven't found it then I wouldn't waste my time talking to them for clues, if its been mined for a long time in the past you need to be looking for the rock they discarded from the mine which won't be like all the other natural breakdown. I won't say what I would do as everyone can figure out for themselves what's best, but looking for answers from people that haven't found it isn't going to get you anywhere. I know where I would start the search and that's in the past when it was found long ago, if you don't start there you may as well just look everywhere as a possible location. HH
johnmark29020 said:
Finally got to see last nights show. I must say I was disappointed with the editing. I wanted to hear what clay,and jack had to say. Heck I was very interested in what the pima indian had to say.
I like frank and Im not as critical of the show as some have been,but If all they giong to do is talk to each other. Then why bother bringing legends like clay on the show.
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Ok everyone. I found my expert certificate. I will let everyone know I do "OFFER" "SOME" free expert advice, but if anyone needs more in-depth expert advice you can consult me about my fees! They ARE reasonable!

Here is my certificate to prove my course completion on being an expert! :laughing7:

Expert Certificate 2.jpg
 

cactusjumper said:
Randy,

Obie Stoker drove his old Packard into Second Water by the Question Mark Mine. As I recall, Barry Storm had his sedan all the way to Boulder Basin.

Take care,

Joe
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Oh wow, thanks Joe, I have been corrected.
 

wingmaster said:
If some of those people that are old and searching most of their life haven't found it then I wouldn't waste my time talking to them for clues, if its been mined for a long time in the past you need to be looking for the rock they discarded from the mine which won't be like all the other natural breakdown. I won't say what I would do as everyone can figure out for themselves what's best, but looking for answers from people that haven't found it isn't going to get you anywhere. I know where I would start the search and that's in the past when it was found long ago, if you don't start there you may as well just look everywhere as a possible location. HH
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Oh I agree thats why I refused to buy the books. I figured the folk lore was getting in the way of the truith.
Still if your going to invite them on the show. Let us hear them.
To me its like having a vistor pastor,and the regular pastor not shutting up long enough for him to really speak. Why invite him in the first place.

Does everyone still agree thats the bat cave. And does anyone know how many shows are left.
 

johnmark29020 said:
And does anyone know how many shows are left.
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Not very many if they don't find anything.

Seriously cool footage of the valley, the goldfield areas i had visited as a kid were cool too, congrats to that

but now they have killed two snakes for show alone, which weren't even in their direct paths, and the show is portraying a role of a person that is a former detective who will 'Kill Any Snake He See's" kinda vibe.

I have to say that to be encouraging random gun use for show certainly makes the "Curse of the 250+ Dead" look all the more obvious who is involved in stealing the Apache Thunder God's Gold......

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Besides if they knew where to find the Jesuits Treasures they would be riding bikes instead of hiking......walking is so highly overrated isnt it? :happysmiley:
 

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