Nazi Dagger authentication advice please.

[war-digs-it]

Was out picking the estate sales this morning as usual and got into some neat stuff. The sales company stopped tagging and missed some of the best stuff in the sale. This was among those things I placed in my pile. They just looked at the pile of items and charged $65, hoping this is the real deal but I won't cry if it's not. The markings look pretty good but I'm no pro at these.

 

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[Red James Cash]

Worst case scenerio you can have a fake,second worst is a thrown together post war dagger that were sold to the occupying forces as souvenirs.Third you have the real McCoy.Its just to tough to tell from pictures.

 

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[GregK]

Any two letter markings on the crossguard denote the "Gau" (state) the SA member was issued the blade. Late war daggers were NOT issued with these marks. As per my post in the Garage Sale sub-forum I cannot stress enough that this dagger is 100% good in my opinion and realistically valued in the $500 - $600 range.

 

[war-digs-it]

Thanks GregK! I tend to be a pessimist and since selling stuff is my game, I would hate to have a buyer go nuts on me.

 

[GregK]

Only problem being is that all nazi daggers were usually marked Solingen and had the makers stamp on the blade.The distribution marking is also missing (it may be there but I cant see it) from the hand guard.The RZM marking is only a control stamp.

Solingen markings are not required. Most early and pre-war daggers (regardless of branch) were sent out with full company trademarks and logos which often included the town name of Solingen in them. As the RZM came into effect any political material was required to have the RZM marking. There was a transitional period where most of the blades would have had both. The later the dagger the less likely it was marked with anything but the RZM marking. As posted in a previous post the "Gau" marking disappeared on the late war pieces.

 

[GregK]

Thanks GregK! I tend to be a pessimist and since selling stuff is my game, I would hate to have a buyer go nuts on me.

If you need assistance selling it then I can certainly point you in the right direction to get the most $ for your investment. Would be my pleasure to help.

 

[AU Seeker]

I'm no expert in this field, but I compared your dagger to this one I found online that is the same as yours the best I can tell, and I feel you have an original dagger as well, you could probably send pictures to the gentleman of the following linked site for his option and if he agrees that it is genuine maybe send it for an appraisal.

Contact info is on this page at the bottom.

Wittmann Antique Militaria - Imperial German & Third Reich Artifacts

What you appear to have is a late SA Dagger, RZM M7/42 which was manufactured by WKC.

The description of the following dagger pictured below is at the bottom of this page.
Wittmann Militaria - SA Dagger (Sturmabteilung) Section, Page Three

Wittmann Militaria #31150 Late SA Dagger, RZM M7/42 by WKC


#31150 Late SA Dagger, RZM M7/42 by WKC - $695.00

 

[pigeonman]

its real as rain,nice find

 

[Bum Luck]

Only problem being is that all nazi daggers were usually marked Solingen and had the makers stamp on the blade.The distribution marking is also missing (it may be there but I cant see it) from the hand guard.The RZM marking is only a control stamp.

Your assertions are incorrect, RJ. First, "All" is inconsistent with "usually". Something can be one or the other but not both.

Not all daggers were marked "Solingen". Not all makers were even from Solingen; Aesculap AG was in Tuttlingen, Fritz Barthelmess was from Muggendorf in Bavaria, August Bicke was from Steinbech-Hallenberg, Julius Bodenstein was from Steinbech, Adolf Braun was from Berlin, and many more were not. But this one was made by W.K.C. (Weyersberg, Kirschbaum & Co.) from Solingen, who had the M7/42 RZM number. But the word "Solingen" wasn't on all their blades.

The "distribution marking" or more properly, the SA Gruppe marking, normally (on non parts daggers) only appear on pre-RZM daggers, about 1935. The lack of a makers mark suggests a manufacture date of 1938 or later, as does the black painted scabbard, the only difference from an SA dagger.

Compare with this dagger with one from an impeccable source, Thomas Wittmann: Wittmann Militaria #35954 Mid-Period NSKK E.M. RZM M7/13 (Shuttlehofer)

 

[MuckyBottles]

I have a few concerns about your SA "Everything for Germany" dagger , I have a couple of SS Daggers "My Honor is Loyalty" and one Hitler youth "Blood and Honor", all of them have a serial number etched on the cross guard, with the pictures you've provided, I do not see one.
Second, the wear looks ok, but the overall appearance looks too good. I am not saying its not real, by all means it looks real. These concerns are based on my opinions.

 

[damien41]

Looks legit. I have 15 shot glasses form the holocaust. All are written in German with the concentration camps on them with 24k gold filled. Also have SS war medals. My grandfather's brother was a high ranking SS official. The shot glasses I have, you cant find anywhere on the internet and shot glass collector's have told me they have never seen any thing like these ever.

 

[MuckyBottles]

Looks legit. I have 15 shot glasses form the holocaust. All are written in German with the concentration camps on them with 24k gold filled. Also have SS war medals. My grandfather's brother was a high ranking SS official. The shot glasses I have, you cant find anywhere on the internet and shot glass collector's have told me they have never seen any thing like these ever.

eeek...

 

[Bum Luck]

I have a few concerns about your SA "Everything for Germany" dagger , I have a couple of SS Daggers "My Honor is Loyalty" and one Hitler youth "Blood and Honor", all of them have a serial number etched on the cross guard, with the pictures you've provided, I do not see one.
Second, the wear looks ok, but the overall appearance looks too good. I am not saying its not real, by all means it looks real. These concerns are based on my opinions.

Not a big deal. Serial numbers were the exception, not the rule. Take a tour through any reputable reference like Wittmann or Johnson.

 

[lockster99]

Shot glasses........?

 

[MuckyBottles]

Shot glasses........?

"Schnapps glasses"

 

[MuckyBottles]

Shot glasses........?

"Schnapps glasses"

 

[diggummup]

Looks legit. I have 15 shot glasses form the holocaust. All are written in German with the concentration camps on them with 24k gold filled. Also have SS war medals. My grandfather's brother was a high ranking SS official. The shot glasses I have, you cant find anywhere on the internet and shot glass collector's have told me they have never seen any thing like these ever.

I'd like to see some photos of that collection for sure.