My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669* New pics.New camera!

[Iron Patch]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

You might want to stop that Token from drying out any more :P or you could loose more of the detail and you don't want that on a Rare find

looks as if some of the Patina is flaking off

SS

How do you solve that problem.

It's tricky with such a Rare Item made of Bronze I would use a light covering of Olive oil, on Roman Bronzes, I think Cru uses Renaissance wax on Roman Bronzes, but I am not suggesting you do this

Please take further advice on preserving your Token perhaps BB or Iron Patch,could help, Don also has a wide knowledge of Copper coins he could also suggest some way

SS

I also us Renaissance Wax on 17th Century Tokens like this one. It is Museum quality product (which means you don't have to worry about it harming it) & costs quite a bit but worth every penny. Get the smallest tin you can it lasts for years.
Wax on with a soft cloth, & buff the wax off.
It does make it look a bit shinny but help bring up more detail. (most importantly it protects the token from hand acids & drying out)

I also use it but there's never much to think about because it's usually a gilt button I am coating. I tend not to use it on things I can heat because I find the wax stays too think and glossy. That being said, something should be done. My friend had a rare thin token in a safety deposit box as dug, it was probably worth a few grand and cracked from drying out. The best example is probably pewter buttons, leave them alone and one day they'll fall apart on you.

I never do the heat up thing. Only wax on buff off. I hate that thick glossy looking coat.

If you wax solid finds you should try heating them, works better. I used to use a certain floor wax on buttons, had carnauba, was thin, and left a great, strong, thin, finish. The problem was it gave off very bad fumes when heated so I made the switch to renaissance. It was neither worth the effort or health risk to coat a button!

OK, you talking about drying out the token & not heating the wax?

I'm talking about either heating an item in wax then removing it, or applying the wax, then heating to thin it out, so (for lack of a better term) it attaches better.

OK, I prefer not to use that method, as I said before I hate the finish it leaves. Never had a problem with these tokens & many I have no wax on at all. I keep it simple, let the token dry out naturally (after drying with tissue) at room temp. they rub on the wax straight from the tin & buff it off. Might not be as effective as the proper way but I prefer the finish & have never seen any problems.
I just emailed a 17th C token collector for his thoughts, I will update later.

You're not quite following me. The reason you heat it is to have the wax more absorbed leaving a less thick and glossy finish.

Also, I did not say I would wax that token, or any in fact. If one was extremely dry and thin I would do something, but can't say what because it would have to be in front of me, and I'd need more thought. I do have several early brass military which I have left as is after cleaning and they don't appear any worse than the day I found them. (other than looking dry)

PS... Another option for the token could be light oil and permanently encapsulated. Again I'd need to be in the position with the find in front of me to decide.

OK, got you I know what you mean about close inspection, but my guess from the picture, is it will hold up OK without further bother. I'll be interested to see what my friend come back with Whatever happens, the finder has to be 100% confortable before trying anything. Never good to 'practice' on your best find. But you know all this, just giving TK something to consider.

I agree, a 2x2 is probably all I would do with it. I think it's only when they are paper thin you're really risking a crack. I doubt I would ever wax a coin or token.

 

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[CRUSADER]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

You might want to stop that Token from drying out any more :P or you could loose more of the detail and you don't want that on a Rare find

looks as if some of the Patina is flaking off

SS

How do you solve that problem.

It's tricky with such a Rare Item made of Bronze I would use a light covering of Olive oil, on Roman Bronzes, I think Cru uses Renaissance wax on Roman Bronzes, but I am not suggesting you do this

Please take further advice on preserving your Token perhaps BB or Iron Patch,could help, Don also has a wide knowledge of Copper coins he could also suggest some way

SS

I also us Renaissance Wax on 17th Century Tokens like this one. It is Museum quality product (which means you don't have to worry about it harming it) & costs quite a bit but worth every penny. Get the smallest tin you can it lasts for years.
Wax on with a soft cloth, & buff the wax off.
It does make it look a bit shinny but help bring up more detail. (most importantly it protects the token from hand acids & drying out)

I also use it but there's never much to think about because it's usually a gilt button I am coating. I tend not to use it on things I can heat because I find the wax stays too think and glossy. That being said, something should be done. My friend had a rare thin token in a safety deposit box as dug, it was probably worth a few grand and cracked from drying out. The best example is probably pewter buttons, leave them alone and one day they'll fall apart on you.

I never do the heat up thing. Only wax on buff off. I hate that thick glossy looking coat.

If you wax solid finds you should try heating them, works better. I used to use a certain floor wax on buttons, had carnauba, was thin, and left a great, strong, thin, finish. The problem was it gave off very bad fumes when heated so I made the switch to renaissance. It was neither worth the effort or health risk to coat a button!

OK, you talking about drying out the token & not heating the wax?

I'm talking about either heating an item in wax then removing it, or applying the wax, then heating to thin it out, so (for lack of a better term) it attaches better.

OK, I prefer not to use that method, as I said before I hate the finish it leaves. Never had a problem with these tokens & many I have no wax on at all. I keep it simple, let the token dry out naturally (after drying with tissue) at room temp. they rub on the wax straight from the tin & buff it off. Might not be as effective as the proper way but I prefer the finish & have never seen any problems.
I just emailed a 17th C token collector for his thoughts, I will update later.

You're not quite following me. The reason you heat it is to have the wax more absorbed leaving a less thick and glossy finish.

Also, I did not say I would wax that token, or any in fact. If one was extremely dry and thin I would do something, but can't say what because it would have to be in front of me, and I'd need more thought. I do have several early brass military which I have left as is after cleaning and they don't appear any worse than the day I found them. (other than looking dry)

PS... Another option for the token could be light oil and permanently encapsulated. Again I'd need to be in the position with the find in front of me to decide.

OK, got you I know what you mean about close inspection, but my guess from the picture, is it will hold up OK without further bother. I'll be interested to see what my friend come back with Whatever happens, the finder has to be 100% confortable before trying anything. Never good to 'practice' on your best find. But you know all this, just giving TK something to consider.

I agree, a 2x2 is probably all I would do with it. I think it's only when they are paper thin you're really risking a crack. I doubt I would ever wax a coin or token.

Other than the odd artefact, the wax only goes on the odd Roman bronze/copper/brass coins to lift up the patina (colourwise, that is). I use on the 17th C tokens which are very worn & hard to ID, to bring up some of the letters, otherwise I leave them as is. However, by doing this I do know it does no harm, thats why I was happy to suggest. Otherwise, I won't advice things I'm not willing to or never done myself.

 

[timekiller]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

Hey guy's I've talked with the archaeologist guy yesterday I spoke of earlier.He is going to put me in touch with the person who does the preservationist work from the ship wreck.Waiting to here back from him today.(hopefully)I was surprise to hear him say that they remove the petina(msp) from there objects like this made of bronze,copper,brass.He seems to think from what I get that if the writing is there it will be there after doing such.I guess thats what I understood.Anyway waiting to hear back from the preservationist first.I know some things I've cleaned in the past before I knew better that was in bad,bad shape.Before I cleaned them I could at least see something,after nothing.Maybe there was no chance for them to begain with. Maybe at the end of the day I'll have a better understanding of the process.
Timekiller!

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

Hey guy's I've talked with the archaeologist guy yesterday I spoke of earlier.He is going to put me in touch with the person who does the preservationist work from the ship wreck.Waiting to here back from him today.(hopefully)I was surprise to hear him say that they remove the petina(msp) from there objects like this made of bronze,copper,brass.He seems to think from what I get that if the writing is there it will be there after doing such.I guess thats what I understood.Anyway waiting to hear back from the preservationist first.I know some things I've cleaned in the past before I knew better that was in bad,bad shape.Before I cleaned them I could at least see something,after nothing.Maybe there was no chance for them to begain with. Maybe at the end of the day I'll have a better understanding of the process.
Timekiller!

This guy, I would listern to he has a very large collection of these, many dug examples (you have no verdigris to worry about):


I don’t usually add anything to tokens out of the ground.

Wax isn’t a problem provided there is no verdigris on the metal. It seals the surface. If there are any green spots, they need sorting out before the coin is sealed, otherwise they keep eating into the coin. Waxes can easily be removed using solvents anyway.

 

[timekiller]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

Hey guy's I've talked with the archaeologist guy yesterday I spoke of earlier.He is going to put me in touch with the person who does the preservationist work from the ship wreck.Waiting to here back from him today.(hopefully)I was surprise to hear him say that they remove the petina(msp) from there objects like this made of bronze,copper,brass.He seems to think from what I get that if the writing is there it will be there after doing such.I guess thats what I understood.Anyway waiting to hear back from the preservationist first.I know some things I've cleaned in the past before I knew better that was in bad,bad shape.Before I cleaned them I could at least see something,after nothing.Maybe there was no chance for them to begain with. Maybe at the end of the day I'll have a better understanding of the process.
Timekiller!

This guy, I would listern to he has a very large collection of these, many dug examples (you have no verdigris to worry about):


I don’t usually add anything to tokens out of the ground.

Wax isn’t a problem provided there is no verdigris on the metal. It seals the surface. If there are any green spots, they need sorting out before the coin is sealed, otherwise they keep eating into the coin. Waxes can easily be removed using solvents anyway.

Thanks for the info.Cru I plan to have plenty of ? for it.I'll then make the call.I'm still on that side of it to.
I think I see the token you point torwards in your post.Are they field finds.Most of my stuff is from at edge of water if not under water.All public.Just remote.!

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

I don't buy into the idea of removing the verdigris/patina on all dug items before sealing for fear it will continue to eat at the item. The top American relic collectors in the US will tell you if you strip the patina, you just removed the face, basically the equivalent of wiping the gilt off a nice button. I would definitely not risk losing detail just to get the green off before waxing. Yes maybe tokens and buttons are looked at different but my issue is with saying an item should be stripped to keep it better preserved, I disagree, and think the majority (especially ones with patina) will hold up just fine.

I'd hate to have this one "professionally" preserved. It's probably the best known 17mm example! (because of the green)

 

[timekiller]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

I don't buy into the idea of removing the verdigris/patina on all dug items before sealing for fear it will continue to eat at the item. The top American relic collectors in the US will tell you if you strip the patina, you just removed the face, basically the equivalent of wiping the gilt off a nice button. I would definitely not risk losing detail just to get the green off before waxing. Yes maybe tokens and buttons are looked at different but my issue is with saying an item should be stripped to keep it better preserved, I disagree, and think the majority (especially ones with patina) will hold up just fine.

I'd hate to have this one "professionally" preserved. It's probably the best known 17mm example! (because of the green)

Very nice Patch.I agree.I don't think you have to have a degree to know things.I've done things the hard way all my life it seems.And although it was the hard way it was a learning degree for me.I think hands on experiance is a learning tool as well!

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

I don't buy into the idea of removing the verdigris/patina on all dug items before sealing for fear it will continue to eat at the item. The top American relic collectors in the US will tell you if you strip the patina, you just removed the face, basically the equivalent of wiping the gilt off a nice button. I would definitely not risk losing detail just to get the green off before waxing. Yes maybe tokens and buttons are looked at different but my issue is with saying an item should be stripped to keep it better preserved, I disagree, and think the majority (especially ones with patina) will hold up just fine.

I'd hate to have this one "professionally" preserved. It's probably the best known 17mm example! (because of the green)

I totally agree. The verdigris my friend was referring to was not the whole green patina but the small corrosive spots you sometimes see & they will get worse over time. The patina in my opinion should never be taken off. I saw some Roman coins like this recently & I would never want them in my collection :P

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

I don't buy into the idea of removing the verdigris/patina on all dug items before sealing for fear it will continue to eat at the item. The top American relic collectors in the US will tell you if you strip the patina, you just removed the face, basically the equivalent of wiping the gilt off a nice button. I would definitely not risk losing detail just to get the green off before waxing. Yes maybe tokens and buttons are looked at different but my issue is with saying an item should be stripped to keep it better preserved, I disagree, and think the majority (especially ones with patina) will hold up just fine.

I'd hate to have this one "professionally" preserved. It's probably the best known 17mm example! (because of the green)

I totally agree. The verdigris my friend was referring to was not the whole green patina but the small corrosive spots you sometimes see & they will get worse over time. The patina in my opinion should never be taken off. I saw some Roman coins like this recently & I would never want them in my collection :P

Then he shouldn't throw that term around as loosely because it really does cover it all if you read the definition. What Timekiller was told in the post above I find a little concerning as it seems they are talking about all color coming off.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

I don't buy into the idea of removing the verdigris/patina on all dug items before sealing for fear it will continue to eat at the item. The top American relic collectors in the US will tell you if you strip the patina, you just removed the face, basically the equivalent of wiping the gilt off a nice button. I would definitely not risk losing detail just to get the green off before waxing. Yes maybe tokens and buttons are looked at different but my issue is with saying an item should be stripped to keep it better preserved, I disagree, and think the majority (especially ones with patina) will hold up just fine.

I'd hate to have this one "professionally" preserved. It's probably the best known 17mm example! (because of the green)

I totally agree. The verdigris my friend was referring to was not the whole green patina but the small corrosive spots you sometimes see & they will get worse over time. The patina in my opinion should never be taken off. I saw some Roman coins like this recently & I would never want them in my collection :P

Then he shouldn't throw that term around as loosely because it really does cover it all if you read the definition. What Timekiller was told in the post above I find a little concerning as it seems they are talking about all color coming off.

I know, it concerns me too.

 

[timekiller]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

 

[Silver Searcher]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

Do not put that Token in coke, it will strip it right back

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

Do not put that Token in coke, it will strip it right back

Instead, drink the coke and celebrate the much better advice on this forum!

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

Do not put that Token in coke, it will strip it right back

No it will be fine after a harsh scrub with wire wool

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

Do not put that Token in coke, it will strip it right back

No it will be fine after a harsh scrub with wire wool

Doesn't hitting it with the hammer come before the wool?

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

Do not put that Token in coke, it will strip it right back

No it will be fine after a harsh scrub with wire wool

Doesn't hitting it with the hammer come before the wool?

Dam it I missed a step, what he said..

 

[Silver Searcher]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

Do not put that Token in coke, it will strip it right back

No it will be fine after a harsh scrub with wire wool

Doesn't hitting it with the hammer come before the wool?

Dam it I missed a step, what he said..

Michael my detecting buddy, once took a dremel to a Anglo Saxon sceat, much better than a hammer and wire wool

 

[shaun7]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

Do not put that Token in coke, it will strip it right back

No it will be fine after a harsh scrub with wire wool

Doesn't hitting it with the hammer come before the wool?

Dam it I missed a step, what he said..

Kettle descailer, i've seen the results

 

[shaun7]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

Do not put that Token in coke, it will strip it right back

No it will be fine after a harsh scrub with wire wool

Doesn't hitting it with the hammer come before the wool?

Dam it I missed a step, what he said..

Michael my detecting buddy, once took a dremel to a Anglo Saxon sceat, much better than a hammer and wire wool

Is that true

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: My Oldest Token/Coin Yet!!!!!! *1669*

This is what he told me yesterday.To put in coke,or orange juice.He did say that it was not his field though and continued on with the other.I still have not heard back from none of them. I'm not going to do no more with it.Ive cleaned it as best I can shown in the last pics.And don't see nothing wrong with it changing.Because in the last pic if you can see I put a lite brushing of 3&1 house hold oil on it.And right away absorbed the extra up by rubing with cloth litely.I have done this with other things seems find to my eyes.The pics. I thought are good but got a say holding it in your hand to me it's in great condition for something that old made of what it's made of and found the way I find my stuff.
Timekiller!

Do not put that Token in coke, it will strip it right back

No it will be fine after a harsh scrub with wire wool

Doesn't hitting it with the hammer come before the wool?

Dam it I missed a step, what he said..

Kettle descailer, i've seen the results

is that what you tried to clean your insides with, I'm sure you did see the results