My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[lokiblossom]

The only thing that this “coconut” fibre proves is that there is “coconut” fibre on OI.

Wow, I believe, from our much earlier discussions this should go into my win column!

Cheers, Loki

 

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[DaveVanP]

How is writing that an early 14th century Templar voyage to Oak Island/ Nova Scotia was possible, a false hope, and why do you believe that it was impossible?

Cheers, Loki

The objection ISN'T so much your claim that a Templar voyage to Nova Scotia is "possible", but rather your repeated assertion that it is not only "possible" ,but "PROBABLE", even indeed a FACT they arrived, and that is based ONLY on the existence of coconut "coir" at the site, which you claim is absolute, undeniable, and incontrovertible PROOF that they did. For "proof" to carry those adjectives listed, it must be established the Templars were the ONLY group of people in the WORLD who used coconut "coir" for ANY purpose, establishing them as the exclusive users of it, therefore the ONLY persons possible to have left any on Oak Island. You yourself have acknowledged that others DID use the substance...but caged it with the condition that "those people" would have no reason to come to Oak Island.

I do not deny that they COULD have...but what is offered as "proof" that they actually DID is, at best, questionable to support the claim beyond the status of "possible, but highly unlikely."

 

[lokiblossom]

Five reliable C-14 datings by at least two reputable labs of "coconut fibre" to before the 14th century that could only have come from the Eastern Mediterranean where the Order had been based for 200 years is more than simply credible evidence.

Cheers, Loki

With a 95% accuracy on all the datings!

 

[DaveVanP]

With a 95% accuracy on all the datings!

5 datings out of a total of at least 14 tests performed, since the 1970's...I wouldn't bet the farm (or a reputation) on those odds...

 

[lokiblossom]

5 datings out of a total of at least 14 tests performed, since the 1970's...I wouldn't bet the farm (or a reputation) on those odds...

There were only the five performed on the "coconut fibre" many others were done on various wood samples. In the beginning of the Oak Island project many of the researchers were thinking of a 17th century event such as pirates or ect. As the datings came in their was quite a bit of surprise, but at the time it was still believed that the fibre's could have been sourced in the Caribbean. Now, we know that coconut fibre dated that early could only have come from the coconuts in the Pacific or Indian Oceans. During that same period, manufactured "coir" was being carried between India and the Eastern Mediterranean by Arab traders, so manufactured coir C-14 dated to before the 14th century was more than likely carried to Oak Island by somebody from the Eastern Mediterranean!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

... I don't have any trouble with Piers Paul Read's, history of "the Templars" and still quote it quite often.

What did Piers Paul Read write concerning the Grail and the Templars claims and voyages to Nova Scotia?
That seems to be one statement of Reed's you haven't quoted.

 

[SSR]

5 datings out of a total of at least 14 tests performed, since the 1970's...I wouldn't bet the farm (or a reputation) on those odds...

It's always a 95% confidence in the produced instrumental result for a reason, and it has nothing to do with confidence of the date being given. Science is suppose to be reproducible. If someone proposed to you a method that wasn't up there near 100% you are entering into a deal where reproducible findings aren't even the starting point. To satisfy your own incredulous position, take any sample you want to have analyzed and purposely contaminate it in such a way that the result that is going to be reported to you is certainly not going to be representative of a correct date. The result will come back to you ALWAYS saying it's in the 95% confidence interval. They are that certain of what they are measuring even if they know nothing about the possible contamination/reliability of a sample. The validity of the test is for you as a customer to determine, not them. They are giving you a result that is very reproducible by their methods. 95 times out of 100, if the analyzed the same sample over and over, they would expect it to fall within the given result +/- . If you fail to understand that you could not obtain a degree in any analytical or statistical discipline.

 

[SSR]

The grail is not an object, it's a symbol in allegorical accounts of a religious nature. The European grail stories are Romances that were 100% understood to be symbolic stories at the time of their writing among the educated before the crusades. Fast forward a couple hundred years when the average Joe can't tell a fable from a news report and we have all these nonsensical suggestions about proofs of myths being real being produced by the most unimpressive associations. The guilty are almost always religious Christian zealots who are trying their hand at writing confirming pseudo-History. The people who believe the Bible is literal chase other real myths into reality. That was a characteristic of Templars also.

If it is an interpretation of the meaning of the grail symbol in the Bible that is needed there's a lot of really good literature to dive into. Don't get hung up on the fact that Templars were selling fake religious relics all throughout Europe as a side gig. There have always been people wanting to create real facsimiles of important symbols. That's why there are five+ arks and 3+ shrouds, and so on and so on...

If you want to chase symbols to OI I suggest chasing the staff of the Sumerian "Lord of the good tree", Ningishzida, but don't look for it in material form. When he rose it and shook it you got raised from the dead into immortal life. That story tickled some people who thought it may have been clever to exploit the "shake spear" idea and marry it to an immortal man of myth, a prophet of immortality, Enoch. Every single religious relic that was ever suggested you can trace symbolically to OI stories. That's how cleaver the story that this mystery was built on was originally. It was intended to be a mystery to represent all mysteries, and someone's attempt at a shot at literary immortality. The cross of crucifixion is also on OI. The old wood is in every hole to suggest it too. Don't forget to measure everything. It will come back to you in divine proportions proving to you that there was Godly intent to our existences...or was there?

 

[lokiblossom]

What did Piers Paul Reed write concerning the Grail and the Templars claims and voyages to Nova Scotia?
That seems to be one statement of Reed's you haven't quoted.

,

You should at least learn to spell his name correctly if you wish to quote him! But go ahead and quote his ideas on post 1307 Templar activities. I don't because I don't agree with some of his views on the subject which of course I am willing to discuss.

What I do quote are his historical writings from the well recorded Templar archives.

Why do you think a 14th century voyage by a few members of the Order of the Temple to Oak Island/ Nova Scotia would have been impossible?

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

The grail is not an object, it's a symbol in allegorical accounts of a religious nature. The European grail stories are Romances that were 100% understood to be symbolic stories at the time of their writing among the educated before the crusades. Fast forward a couple hundred years when the average Joe can't tell a fable from a news report and we have all these nonsensical suggestions about proofs of myths being real being produced by the most unimpressive associations. The guilty are almost always religious Christian zealots who are trying their hand at writing confirming pseudo-History. The people who believe the Bible is literal chase other real myths into reality. That was a characteristic of Templars also.

If it is an interpretation of the meaning of the grail symbol in the Bible that is needed there's a lot of really good literature to dive into. Don't get hung up on the fact that Templars were selling fake religious relics all throughout Europe as a side gig. There have always been people wanting to create real facsimiles of important symbols. That's why there are five+ arks and 3+ shrouds, and so on and so on...

If you want to chase symbols to OI I suggest chasing the staff of the Sumerian "Lord of the good tree", Ningishzida, but don't look for it in material form. When he rose it and shook it you got raised from the dead into immortal life. That story tickled some people who thought it may have been clever to exploit the "shake spear" idea and marry it to an immortal man of myth, a prophet of immortality, Enoch. Every single religious relic that was ever suggested you can trace symbolically to OI stories. That's how cleaver the story that this mystery was built on was originally. It was intended to be a mystery to represent all mysteries, and someone's attempt at a shot at literary immortality. The cross of crucifixion is also on OI. The old wood is in every hole to suggest it too. Don't forget to measure everything. It will come back to you in divine proportions proving to you that there was Godly intent to our existences...or was there?

Thank You for the lesson in religious myths!

Cheers, Loki

 

[DaveVanP]

The "5, 95% reliable results" Loki refers to are PUBLISHED results. No proponent of an "ancient" explanation of the Oak Island enigma will refer to the "other" results which call the other 5 into question. There have been at least 14 conclusive tests performed on "coconut fiber" recovered from Oak Island; a few more returned results as "inconclusive", due to deterioration or contamination. Of those 14, 5 returned results as Loki described, 6 returned results "with 95% confidence" of dates 200-300 YBP (1670-1770), 2 indicated, "with 95% confidence" ages of over 10,000 years, and 1, "with 95% confidence" showed an age of approximately 100 years. These tests were performed on dozens of samples of coconut fiber, wood and other organic materials found over the years of about 1965 to the early 2000's, at several different labs, some no longer in operation. Thermo-luminescence tests performed on pottery shards found in the various pits indicate ages in a narrow range between 1740-1780.

My knowledge of these tests come from former associates at UNC, U of Chicago (where C-14/AMS dating was developed), and UVA, who performed many of the tests on items we recovered while doing field work as a student at ECU. They, in turn, have associates and colleagues at laboratories, including BETA Analytic and TRIUMF at Canada's National Lab. I have held hard copies of these test results in my hands.

 

[ECS]

,

You should at least learn to spell his name correctly if you wish to quote him!
But go ahead and quote his ideas on post 1307 Templar activities.
I don't because I don't agree with some of his views on the subject which of course I am willing to discuss.
What I do quote are his historical writings from the well recorded Templar archives.
Why do you think a 14th century voyage by a few members of the Order of the Temple to Oak Island/ Nova Scotia would have been impossible?

Could it be his statements about the Templars and the Grail and voyages to Nova Scotia from "well recorded Templar archives" are the cause of your disagreement with Piers Paul Read?
As with your constant posted Carbon-14 results, you have exhibited a definite penchant of only posting the edited sections that "agree" with your premise while totally ignoring those that "don't agree".

PS: Loki, we all realize your repetitive "impossible" question is just an evasive ploy diverting the discussion away from the hard established fact that this fantasy Templar voyage never occurred, and as hard as you try to promote coir as evidence, you have yet to present any real absolute documentation that can prove that the Templars ever set sail to Nova Scotia.

 

[lokiblossom]

The "5, 95% reliable results" Loki refers to are PUBLISHED results. No proponent of an "ancient" explanation of the Oak Island enigma will refer to the "other" results which call the other 5 into question. There have been at least 14 conclusive tests performed on "coconut fiber" recovered from Oak Island; a few more returned results as "inconclusive", due to deterioration or contamination. Of those 14, 5 returned results as Loki described, 6 returned results "with 95% confidence" of dates 200-300 YBP (1670-1770), 2 indicated, "with 95% confidence" ages of over 10,000 years, and 1, "with 95% confidence" showed an age of approximately 100 years. These tests were performed on dozens of samples of coconut fiber, wood and other organic materials found over the years of about 1965 to the early 2000's, at several different labs, some no longer in operation. Thermo-luminescence tests performed on pottery shards found in the various pits indicate ages in a narrow range between 1740-1780.

My knowledge of these tests come from former associates at UNC, U of Chicago (where C-14/AMS dating was developed), and UVA, who performed many of the tests on items we recovered while doing field work as a student at ECU. They, in turn, have associates and colleagues at laboratories, including BETA Analytic and TRIUMF at Canada's National Lab. I have held hard copies of these test results in my hands.

There were some samples returned as too degraded to test, but there were only five actual tests on coconut fibre with only four of them published all showing a dating of before the 14th century (one was by the Lagina team and I have not yet seen a published report). There were several wood samples submitted including at least one charcoal with dates all over the place. I believe you are referring to the wood samples in some of your questionable datings.

Cheers, loki

 

[ECS]

Now if you only had REAL evidence of a Templar voyage to Nova Scotia...

 

[ECS]

... I don't have any trouble with Piers Paul Read's, history of "the Templars" and still quote it quite often.

Another author and book for you to quote:
THE TEMPLARS: The Rise and Spectacular Fall if God's Holy Warriors by Dan Jones.
Like Read, Addison, and Lord there is NO mention of a voyage to Oak Island/Annapolis Basin, Nova Scotia to hide the Grail or any other treasure, and NO mention of coconut coir, but another true and accurate history of the Order.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

"My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia"

Didn't happen.

End of story.

 

[ECS]

Over the past several years, and in hundreds of posts, you have posted not one piece of evidence that would lead one to reasonably speculate (let alone conclude) that the KT made it to NS.
You have repeated your story over and over, and seem to believe that the story itself is proof.
It isn’t...

I agree, all that Loki and some others presented as "fact" concerning a Templar voyage to the New World is what is called APOPHENIA, a tendency to mistakenly perceive connections, meanings, and patterns between unrelated events, people and things, creating what is known as a "clustering illusion".
Thereby a painting by Poussin provides evidence that coconut coir found on Oak Island is proof that the Templar ships that set to sea from La Rochelle after the October 13, 1307 arrests voyaged to Oak Island/ Annapolis Basin, Nova Scotia to hide their treasure including the Grail.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

How the brain processes input:

 

[DaveVanP]

The only illustration left out was the one where dots are ADDED to complete whatever image you want to end up with.

 

[ECS]

Didn't happen. End of story.

That seems to be the final logical answer.