My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[lokiblossom]

Now - "PROVE" I was NOT involved in the JFK assassination...

(Just as you IGNORE evidence that conflicts with your story, you must also ignore the fact that I was 7 years old in 1963)

Very interesting, now show me why you detractors think a 14th century by a small group of Knights Templars would have been impossible!

Btw, I also qualified expert, but as a paratrooper not a marine, as a matter of fact almost everybody did!

Cheers, Loki

 

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[lokiblossom]

One item of "evidence" I would like to present is the FACT that of the DOZENS of C14 tests Beta Analysis has performed over several years, OVER HALF have returned results of "Indeterminate" or "Unreliable", several more show "95% reliable" for dates ranging from 200 YBP (years before present) to 10,000 YBP for samples taken from the SAME specimen...yet because a very few appear to agree with each other, you accept ONLY those as being "PROOF". No - "proof" might be considered if ALL of the tests had the same results, not a fraction. It is acceptable in research to reject a fraction of test results as an "aberration", but UNACCEPTABLE to accept only the fraction as "apparent" (or "FACTUAL" as you wish to do).

Not sure where you got those results but they are not correct. There were some questionable wood samples that were dated as you mention, perhaps you have them mixed up? Maybe try to read the reports again but wear glasses.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

... now show me why you detractors think a 14th century by a small group of Knights Templars would have been impossible!...

Why?
You haven't proven it possible with all your posts about coconut coir, paintings, a English garden folly, Rahn and his Cathar Grail romance quest for Himmler, and all your outlandish overtop non connected fact based speculations.
You, my friend Loki, are the one claiming this 14th century Templar voyage, now with a "small group of Knights" to Nova Scotia, so the onus is on you to prove it true.
So far, if you haven't been keeping up with current events on this thread, Those who you label "detractors" have posted many times over with factual references why it never happened.
The burden of proof that this Templar voyage occurred is not supported by carbon-14 dates, unless you, Loki, can conclusively place these coir samples into the hands of a Templar.

 

[lokiblossom]

Why?
You haven't proven it possible with all your posts about coconut coir, paintings, a English garden folly, Rahn and his Cathar Grail romance quest for Himmler, and all your outlandish overtop non connected fact based speculations.
You, my friend Loki, are the one claiming this 14th century Templar voyage, now with a "small group of Knights" to Nova Scotia, so the onus is on you to prove it true.
So far, if you haven't been keeping up with current events on this thread, Those who you label "detractors" have posted many times over with factual references why it never happened.
The burden of proof that this Templar voyage occurred is not supported by carbon-14 dates, unless you, Loki, can conclusively place these coir samples into the hands of a Templar.

Some of the detractors have posted reasons of why they think such a voyage didn't happen, but I have yet to read a factual reference that shows it never happened. One of those I don't consider very factual, I just answered in post #902.

I'm not asking you why you don't accept my premise's, I'm simply asking why you think an early 14th century voyage by a small group of Knights Templars to Oak Island/ Nova Scotia would have been impossible?

Do you still believe they didn't have adequate vessels or didn't possess the needed navigational skills, or were all arrested by the King of France? These are all questions I have answered for you, now I'm asking you a simple question that you should be able to answer.

"Why do you think an early 14th century voyage by a small group of Knights Templars to Oak Island/ Nova Scotia, would have been impossible?"


Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I, for one, have not said it was impossible. Same goes for visits at Oak Island by Scandinavians, Polynesians or green two-headed space-fairing hamsters from Mars. Just very, very low probability.

And that there is no supporting evidence of their presence. But when that hamster-ball with an air-lock and warp drive is unearthed . . .

 

[ECS]

Some of the detractors have posted reasons of why they think such a voyage didn't happen, but I have yet to read a factual reference that shows it never happened...

The major reason, Loki, is that you have yet to produce a factual reference that it happened.

 

[lokiblossom]

The major reason, Loki, is that you have yet to produce a factual reference that it happened.

That is not an answer as to "Why was it impossible for a few Knights Templar to have sailed to Oak Island/ Nova Scotia in the early 14th century"?

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

I, for one, have not said it was impossible. Same goes for visits at Oak Island by Scandinavians, Polynesians or green two-headed space-fairing hamsters from Mars. Just very, very low probability.

And that there is no supporting evidence of their presence. But when that hamster-ball with an air-lock and warp drive is unearthed . . .

Ok, Charlie, but I do think "green two-headed space-fairing hamsters from Mars" is a little over the top!

Cheers, Loki

 

[DaveVanP]

Very interesting, now show me why you detractors think a 14th century by a small group of Knights Templars would have been impossible!
Cheers, Loki

Not only is there a lack of credible evidence to "prove" that it happened, there is a lack of evidence to even SUGGEST that it happened.

The current evidence that can be examined today SUGGESTS that "perhaps" something MAY have been buried on Oak Island during the 1700's. SUPPOSEDLY (it is only based on un-corroborated statements) - A depression in the ground under a tree with a "groove" worn in a limb above the depression (as from a rope - NO "block and tackle was found hanging) indicate it may have been used to lower something into a hole beneath. The description of the tree size ("could wrap one's arms around the trunk and touch fingers" - approx. 22"-24"), if it was an oak, this indicates the tree was approximately 120 years old in 1795. Contemporary stories of that era state that it was a "pirate treasure", probably the most reasonable explanation, though also without any evidence. That the "Money Pit" could contain "something else" never came up for another century, and the "evidence" that supported these new stories is not known to have existed prior to the stories, either, although the "discoverers" of this "evidence" CLAIM it is older, even ancient, but for inexplicable reasons, this "evidence" cannot be produced, only "reproductions", "translations", or "recollections".

 

[ECS]

That is not an answer as to "Why was it impossible for a few Knights Templar to have sailed to Oak Island/ Nova Scotia in the early 14th century"?

Neither is indulging in your hypothetical Templar nonsense speculation an answer.

 

[Raparee]

Some of the detractors have posted reasons of why they think such a voyage didn't happen, but I have yet to read a factual reference that shows it never happened.

It is fact that there is nothing credible to suggest that the KT made it to NS. There is no reasonable reason to think that they did. Is it possible that they COULD have made it here? Maybe. I don’t know. But because they MIGHT have been able to doesn’t mean that they did.

 

[lokiblossom]

Not only is there a lack of credible evidence to "prove" that it happened, there is a lack of evidence to even SUGGEST that it happened.

The current evidence that can be examined today SUGGESTS that "perhaps" something MAY have been buried on Oak Island during the 1700's. SUPPOSEDLY (it is only based on un-corroborated statements) - A depression in the ground under a tree with a "groove" worn in a limb above the depression (as from a rope - NO "block and tackle was found hanging) indicate it may have been used to lower something into a hole beneath. The description of the tree size ("could wrap one's arms around the trunk and touch fingers" - approx. 22"-24"), if it was an oak, this indicates the tree was approximately 120 years old in 1795. Contemporary stories of that era state that it was a "pirate treasure", probably the most reasonable explanation, though also without any evidence. That the "Money Pit" could contain "something else" never came up for another century, and the "evidence" that supported these new stories is not known to have existed prior to the stories, either, although the "discoverers" of this "evidence" CLAIM it is older, even ancient, but for inexplicable reasons, this "evidence" cannot be produced, only "reproductions", "translations", or "recollections".

I have never connected a Templar visit to Oak Island to a hole in the ground! I thought you had claimed you read all of these posts?

Cheers, loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Neither is indulging in your hypothetical Templar nonsense speculation an answer.

At least two of the detractors have said "it is possible that Templars could have visited Oak Island, yet you are a holdout, why?

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

It is fact that there is nothing credible to suggest that the KT made it to NS. There is no reasonable reason to think that they did. Is it possible that they COULD have made it here? Maybe. I don’t know. But because they MIGHT have been able to doesn’t mean that they did.

Five reliable C-14 datings by at least two reputable labs of "coconut fibre" to before the 14th century that could only have come from the Eastern Mediterranean where the Order had been based for 200 years is more than simply credible evidence.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Raparee]

Five reliable C-14 datings by at least two reputable labs of "coconut fibre" to before the 14th century that could only have come from the Eastern Mediterranean where the Order had been based for 200 years is more than simply credible evidence.

Cheers, Loki

No. No it isn’t. If the Templars were the ONLY people anywhere on the planet using that material (if it is coconut, and if the dating is accurate) you might be able to make that claim.
The only thing that this “coconut” fibre proves is that there is “coconut” fibre on OI.

 

[ECS]

At least two of the detractors have said "it is possible that Templars could have visited Oak Island, yet you are a holdout, why?

I just don't want to present you with any false hope that this fantasy was ever real, Loki, my friend.

 

[SSR]

No. No it isn’t. If the Templars were the ONLY people anywhere on the planet using that material (if it is coconut, and if the dating is accurate) you might be able to make that claim.
The only thing that this “coconut” fibre proves is that there is “coconut” fibre on OI.

For example, the French nobleman, Isaac the Razilly, who settled 300 men and women near OI in 1632 had also done exploration to Brazil by that time. A way for coconut fiber to get to OI has existed for all of colonial history. We are still likely talking about mid 19th century coconut fiber here (because of the context, be it unreliable, and absence of any corroborating evidence).

The dating result given by the labs is completely consistent with that. In fact, any date in the preceding 1000+ years would be fine and it would not detract from them reporting a 95% confidence level in their protocols since the confidence in the method has nothing to do with the confidence in the dating produced. To know anything about the confidence of the dating would require testing by alternate methods, which no lab report has ever claimed to my knowledge. They stick to doing what they are tasked to do, and that is to report the result for the protocols they are using. They understand their methods are only responsible for adding an additional 5% uncertainty. They know this because they can test standardized samples run through "blindly" and compare those to what they are reporting. No lab has the effortless ability to tell you how reliable your sample is at delivering a representative result. You as the customer are tasked with deciding if the method proposed is worth investing in. You can really only judge that by reading the literature about it. When you do that you will find that degraded coconut fiber in marine environments is notoriously difficult to date. What that is supposed to tell you is that you are in trouble before you get your result and that this result will necessarily have a large +/- attached to it that has nothing to do with the +/- confidence interval of the protocol being used.

There' s nothing remarkable about coconut coir being used as dunnage. I would think that the main suggestion would have to be that it's presence suggests a time when converting the coconut into coir was being done in a least a cottage industry form for maritime use. That they found it at the foot of what they show is a colonial drainage feature as some sort of anti-siltation feature only gives it a reasonable context.

 

[ECS]

That statement was in response to Dave and his list of credentials, and an easy answer is I don't want to.
If you noticed I wrote "related to my research" and added "which I will not discuss here".
The reasoning is simple, my anonymity on this forum would be compromised!

Really? Your anonymity being "compromised" if you listed your credentials?
So far your perceived credentials appear to involve discussions on another site with author Henry Lincoln, having a friend who took part in a recreated Viking longship voyage, the Shriner Knights Templar Black Horse Patrol jacket, and reading far too many pseudohistory by pulp quasihistorian wannabes.
I noticed you stopped referring to historian Piers Paul Reed, and his books on the Templars.
Could it be because of his comments concerning the Grail tales and the Templars, voyages to Nova Scotia, coir on Oak Island, Annapolis Basin?

 

[ECS]

...Btw, I also qualified expert, but as a paratrooper ...

That may explain why you jump to conclusions that Oak Island coir is evidence of a Templar presence in Nova Scotia.

 

[lokiblossom]

I just don't want to present you with any false hope that this fantasy was ever real, Loki, my friend.

How is writing that an early 14th century Templar voyage to Oak Island/ Nova Scotia was possible, a false hope, and why do you believe that it was impossible?

And, btw, I don't have any trouble with Piers Paul Read's, history of "the Templars" and still quote it quite often.

Cheers, Loki