My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

[lokiblossom]

Coconut Coir was used in the Eastern Mediterranean during the period of the Crusade's for ships riggings, and any other use's onboard or other that would replace European hemp. The reason was that "coir" was readily available through trade overland with Indian merchants. This is common knowledge that anybody can read in a short google search.

Any other vessels "based" in the Eastern Mediterranean for any length of time would have also used "coir" as that was what was available, also common knowledge.

The Knights Templars were based in the Eastern Mediterranean for over 200 years with their own Eastern Mediterranean fleet.

In 1306 the Master of the Order was ordered to France from the Templar base on Cyprus to meet with Pope Clement V , a voyage which he made in the spring of 1307 along with 60 knights, their horses, squires, equipment and a lot of gold and silver. All Templar historians mention this voyage.

I premise that they landed in La Rochelle on the Atlantic Coast because this is the one port they completely controlled, and they were not welcome in their other major port of Marseilles. But, and this is very important, although La Rochelle would have been more convenient, whichever port they used does not make much difference to my premise.

Also at La Rochelle they kept most of their commercial vessels, well away from the war zones of the Mediterranean, this I have shown proof of many times.

Knowing of the troubles brewing because Philip IV had sent out his orders a month ahead of time and that they had lost favor in France because of recent lost battles in Outremer they would not have unloaded their vessels preparing for a possible escape.

Sometime before their arrests of October 13th all of the vessels left port, including those commercial ships at La Rochelle, never to be seen again. There is no record of where any of them went.

In the late 1970's Coconut Coir was discovered on Oak Island as identified by one of the most renown botanists of the day in 1976 and later by several others. With several scientific datings the coir was determined to be in from the 12th to 14th century, a period well before any actual recorded European exploration, unless you consider the Viking voyages, which would have been still going on in the early 14th century, as recorded exploration's. As a matter of fact one Viking voyage to Greenland is known to have taken place in 1308.

As there is no other record of anybody with vessels leaving the Eastern Mediterranean and then with those same vessels leaving a French port during the time period required by the dating of the coconut coir found on Oak Island, I posit, "the Knights Templars, in attempting to escape French authorities, sailed their vessels out of French ports before the October 13th arrests, with some going to a friendly Portugal, some to an equally friendly Scotland, and a few following the well established Viking routes, sailed on to what would become North America, landing, at least for some period on a hidden little island in a hidden bay, Oak Island, in Mahone Bay."

Cheers, Loki

Again ECS, this constitutes proof of a Templar landing in Nova Scotia, imho!

Cheers, Loki

 

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[franklin]

Did you see the dating on the wood under the packed stones in the "Swamp" on Oak Island night before last. It was dated to the 12th Century. Two whole centuries before Friday, October 13, 1307. Over one quarter of an acre of stacked and leveled stones. Some group of people did an awful lot of work whether the Vikings or the Knights Templar? The Knights Templar are the only group mentioned that was in to making structures, shafts and tunnels. So my vote goes to the Knights Templar in the New World during the 12th, 13th and 14th Centuries.

 

[ECS]

Again ECS, this constitutes proof of a Templar landing in Nova Scotia, imho!

It constitutes the stacking of unrelated random information assembled to fabricate a series if unfounded, undocumented, unproven conclusions for the sole purpose of supporting a pet theory.
You have yet to present any real solid conclusive evidence that confirms Templar visitation on Oak Island/ Nova Scotia, because as you, and others are aware, NONE EXISTS beyond endless supposition and speculation.

 

[DaveVanP]

So, Loki, you have posted (and reposted above) that ANY vessels "based" in the Eastern Mediterranean would have used coconut fiber in their rigging. Furthermore, you assert that the presence of such fiber on Oak Island "proves" your Templar theory. This would require that the Templars were the ONLY ones sailing ships from the eastern Med....since "ANY" ships operating there would use the fiber. Are you stating, then, that the Templars were the SOLE operators of sailing vessels in that area?...No Egyptian, Turk, Libyan, Greek, Cypriot, Cretean, Maltese, Arab, or Jewish vessels used for trade or fishing....because Loki 's hypothesis requires that ONLY Templar vessels operated in the eastern Med.

 

[ECS]

Did you see the dating on the wood under the packed stones in the "Swamp" on Oak Island night before last.
It was dated to the 12th Century. Two whole centuries before Friday, October 13, 1307. Over one quarter of an acre of stacked and leveled stones...

What laboratory and method of dating was applied, and what were the plus/minus dates?
What professional archaeologist examine this "packed stone" site and the wood to determine its construction and original purpose, which was most likely a corduroy road?
Was a professional botanist consulted and supplied a sample of this wood for the identification species and land of origin?
Without these examinations, there is NO corollary of any evidence of Templar, or Viking activity on Oak Island as to the lack of any of the propositions, including the "coir" have proven a true direct to Templar or Viking habitation on this Nova Scotia island.

 

[franklin]

Ask the Laginas.

 

[ECS]

So what you are now saying is that you don't know if this wood was actually dated to the 12t century?
You do realize the "Curse" is a scripted and edited television program for entertainment and NOT subject to actual professional scholarly academic review for historic or archaeologic accurate verisimilitude.

 

[lokiblossom]

So, Loki, you have posted (and reposted above) that ANY vessels "based" in the Eastern Mediterranean would have used coconut fiber in their rigging. Furthermore, you assert that the presence of such fiber on Oak Island "proves" your Templar theory. This would require that the Templars were the ONLY ones sailing ships from the eastern Med....since "ANY" ships operating there would use the fiber. Are you stating, then, that the Templars were the SOLE operators of sailing vessels in that area?...No Egyptian, Turk, Libyan, Greek, Cypriot, Cretean, Maltese, Arab, or Jewish vessels used for trade or fishing....because Loki 's hypothesis requires that ONLY Templar vessels operated in the eastern Med.

Which one of your named possibilities recorded such an event, or actually had a reason not to record such an event?

From the time of the Portuguese explorations along the African Coast all seagoing explorers produced excellent records of everywhere they went. Even the Vikings had records of visits to the "so-called" New World.

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

So what you are now saying is that you don't know if this wood was actually dated to the 12t century?
You do realize the "Curse" is a scripted and edited television program for entertainment and NOT subject to actual professional scholarly academic review for historic or archaeologic accurate verisimilitude.

A section of an inclined beam from a timber structure on Oak Island was actually dated to the 12th century within an error of plus or minus 110 yrs. in 1969.

Cheers, Loki

 

[UncleDig]

DaveVanP seems like he's the only expert on this Oak Island thing. He must set at home all day, trying to research facts, or watching the TV series over & over.

 

[DaveVanP]

Which one of your named possibilities recorded such an event, or actually had a reason not to record such an event?

From the time of the Portuguese explorations along the African Coast all seagoing explorers produced excellent records of everywhere they went. Even the Vikings had records of visits to the "so-called" New World.

Cheers, Loki

Yes - they recorded their travels. Where are the 14th-, or even 15th-century records of travels by the Templars? NOBODY seemed to notice what the Templars were doing during this time...however, several hundred years later, many claim to have "discovered the real history" of what the Templars accomplished. All these "revelations" were written at the time of the discovery, but one which was claimed to be "an original", but was sadly INTENTIONALLY destroyed by the discoverer/translator.

Yes - even the Vikings recorded their travels, and the Icelanders recorded the departure and return of their ships departing and returning to Iceland, and of visitors from the Faroes and Orkneys...but not Templars.

A lot of what I read about OI and the Templars, reminds me of the work of Zecharia Stichen, the creator of the whole "12th Planet/Annunaki/Nibiru" fable. Stichin is presented as "an authority" on ancient Sumerian history and language, yet he was an accountant for an Israeli shipping company with a degree in economics. He self-taught himself to read Sumerian cuniform, self-taught himself the Sumerian language (by studying the work of others), and discovered that HE, and ONLY HE - of the hundreds of other Sumerian-culture scholars (who attended university on the subject and conducted decades of field work) of the past century and a half - ONLY HE could interpret the records left by the Sumerians to describe the arrival of a rogue planet in the solar system, the enslavement of proto-human hominids by aliens, the manipulation of the homonids' DNA to make them more "advanced" so they could more efficiently mine gold which was necessary to be used in some sort of reactor to purify the air on the aliens' home planet....and Stichen was taken seriously by the hoi polloi. His work, of course cannot be corroborated by any expert or professor of Sumerian culture - after all, THEY do not possess HIS insight and SPECIAL SKILLS in translating and interpretation.

So today, we have the "CHOSEN FEW", who have been blessed with the hidden secrets of the Templars. Only THEY know the "REAL HISTORY" of the Templars, and by extension, the history and destiny of the entire North American Continent. They are discounted by academics, who are, in turn ridiculed by the CHOSEN FEW as being "dogmatic" and "not open to new interpretations", and even "not accepting of new (unverifiable) evidence".

 

[UncleDig]

Have you been to Oak Island? Or you a researcher or internet surfer to get all this knowledge?

 

[ECS]

A section of an inclined beam from a timber structure on Oak Island was actually dated to the 12th century within an error of plus or minus 110 yrs. in 1969.

Need more than just a one liner statement when presented as "fact", Loki.
Who discovered this incline beam at what Oak Island location, when was it discovered, was it photographed in situ with a tape measure for size, was this beam among other beams and other wood debris, where was the testing conducted that "actually" dated it to the 12th century, and was a professional archaeologist consulted to examine this inclined beam to determine its original purpose, and finally, was a sample presented to a professional botanist for species identification and county origin of the timber?
Without the above provenance, Loki, its just another chunk of wood.

 

[lokiblossom]

Yes - they recorded their travels. Where are the 14th-, or even 15th-century records of travels by the Templars? NOBODY seemed to notice what the Templars were doing during this time...however, several hundred years later, many claim to have "discovered the real history" of what the Templars accomplished. All these "revelations" were written at the time of the discovery, but one which was claimed to be "an original", but was sadly INTENTIONALLY destroyed by the discoverer/translator.

Yes - even the Vikings recorded their travels, and the Icelanders recorded the departure and return of their ships departing and returning to Iceland, and of visitors from the Faroes and Orkneys...but not Templars.

Not 15th, at least in my premise's, only early 14th when they were running from the law (King of France) and Pope Clement V's authority which is of course why they left no records. As you noted, nobody seemed to notice what the Templars were doing during this time. But we do know they went somewhere and the coconut coir on Oak Island proves at least a few did stop there. Icelanders only cared about who was or was not trading with them, for instance they did not record English fishing vessels. The law was that any ships trading in Iceland had to report to Norway.

Sorry but I deleted your worthless and ridiculous analogy that followed, comparing the enslavement of humans by aliens to Templars sailing the Atlantic!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Need more than just a one liner statement when presented as "fact", Loki.
Who discovered this incline beam at what Oak Island location, when was it discovered, was it photographed in situ with a tape measure for size, was this beam among other beams and other wood debris, where was the testing conducted that "actually" dated it to the 12th century, and was a professional archaeologist consulted to examine this inclined beam to determine its original purpose, and finally, was a sample presented to a professional botanist for species identification and county origin of the timber?
Without the above provenance, Loki, its just another chunk of wood.

That was for Franklin's benefit and the fact is recorded in the Oak Island archives if Franklin wishes to check it out!

Otherwise I have no dog in that fight.

Cheers, Loki

 

[WG2020]

LokiBlossom,

Thanks to you, Dave, ECS and the many others for a very interesting thread.

I have a question concerning Oak Island - which I know next to nothing on the topic.

Is there any account in the native tribes of outside people visiting Oak Island. I would assume that the extensive construction needed to build the complicated Oak Island shaft and to bury whatever treasure may or not be buried there had to take a good amount of time, required a sizable team of folks, and a lot of materials. One would think that the native tribes that either lived in the area or passed through hunting/traveling would have seen some of this activity and would have some kind of oral story/legend about it - you would think that it would have been very unusual and noteworthy to a native tribesman who hadn’t yet seen white men nor a vessel larger than a canoe.

Thanks in advance for your reply (or another’s reply). Good luck with your hunt.

Walt

 

[ECS]

How do you think the coir got to Nova Scotia ...

The January 1, 1848 issue of THE ARCADIAN RECORDER of Halifax, Nova Scotia, there was an add for the W M STAIRS & CO, a ropeworks on the Avon River in Halifax, listing their "Cordage, Duck, Oakum- Hawsers, Rope, Bolt Rope".
They imported Russian sailcloth for their custom duck work, for their manufactured cordage, rope, bolt rope, hemp and (drum roll) Middle Eastern coir.
The samples submitted for Carbon 14 dating were all contaminated, thereby skewing truly accurate date results.
The "famous" coir of Oak Island could have simply flotsam and jetsam, or a remnant from W M Smith's ropeworks- those three lads did claim there was a rope hanging from an Oak Tree above that hole in the ground.

 

[ECS]

Then you tell me, how did it get there?
I will surely read and probably believe your input!

Neither you or I can precisely state on how coconut coir was placed on Oak Island by whom or when, or that all the different samples presented for dating analysis were from the same source, but nearness of Stairs' ropeworks to Oak Island, unloading and loading shipments on the Avon River, does present a highly plausible alternative to a legendary Templar visit for the sole purpose of burying treasure supported only by scattered facts randomly assembled to form a totally fabricated unfounded conclusion.

 

[lokiblossom]

The January 1, 1848 issue of THE ARCADIAN RECORDER of Halifax, Nova Scotia, there was an add for the W M STAIRS & CO, a ropeworks on the Avon River in Halifax, listing their "Cordage, Duck, Oakum- Hawsers, Rope, Bolt Rope".
They imported Russian sailcloth for their custom duck work, for their manufactured cordage, rope, bolt rope, hemp and (drum roll) Middle Eastern coir.
The samples submitted for Carbon 14 dating were all contaminated, thereby skewing truly accurate date results.
The "famous" coir of Oak Island could have simply flotsam and jetsam, or a remnant from W M Smith's ropeworks- those three lads did claim there was a rope hanging from an Oak Tree above that hole in the ground.

Hmm, the samples were contaminated. So evidently the testing firm acknowledged that the samples were contaminated. In the Oak Island tests as I recall only one sample was considered too contaminated for an accurate test, but again it was acknowledged. No, the tests were correctly done and you might as well give up on that line of reasoning.

Btw, your own dating is also quite skewed. An 1848 sample is what you claim the three boys found?

Note also that it was Middle Eastern Coir!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

LokiBlossom,

Thanks to you, Dave, ECS and the many others for a very interesting thread.

I have a question concerning Oak Island - which I know next to nothing on the topic.

Is there any account in the native tribes of outside people visiting Oak Island. I would assume that the extensive construction needed to build the complicated Oak Island shaft and to bury whatever treasure may or not be buried there had to take a good amount of time, required a sizable team of folks, and a lot of materials. One would think that the native tribes that either lived in the area or passed through hunting/traveling would have seen some of this activity and would have some kind of oral story/legend about it - you would think that it would have been very unusual and noteworthy to a native tribesman who hadn’t yet seen white men nor a vessel larger than a canoe.

Thanks in advance for your reply (or another’s reply). Good luck with your hunt.

Walt

Can't help you much Walt, but I do know the lack of any First Nations accounts of early happenings on Oak Island have been somewhat of a sticking point in the whole treasure process. In the Sinclair legend which allegedly took place in 1398, there is some mention of natives seeing men arrive in Nova Scotia on the backs of whales leading some to believe they were referring to larger sailing vessels.

Cheers, Loki