Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

OKAY FOLKS, I'M GONNA GIVE AWAY PART OF THE BOOK, [A VERY SMALL PIECE] I NEED A FEW WORDS OF ADVICE. IN PART OF THE STORY, I HAVE RELATED A STORY THAT MY LATE PARTNER TOLD ME. HIS STORIES WERE USUALLY PERTINENT TO WHAT WE WERE DOING AT THAT MOMENT. THEY WERE ALSO PLENTIFUL. I HAVE A FEW CHAPTERS THAT, IN PART, HINGE ON ONE OF HIS "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE" STORIES. BEFORE I PUBLISH IT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ANYONE CAN ELSE CONCUR HIS INFO. THE STORY IS ABOUT AN ELDERLY LADY THAT LIVED A FEW MILES AWAY FROM HIM, SHE TOLD HIM THE STORY JUST AS SHE EXPERIENCED IT. HER FATHER, WHILE PLOWING SOME BOTTOM LAND WITH A MULE AND HAND HELD PLOW, HIT SEVERAL PIECES OF CORRODED METAL AND THREW THEM INTO A PILE. SHORT VERSION. THE NEXT DAY A NEIGHBOR STOPPED BY ON HIS WAY INTO TOWN TO SEE IF THEY NEEDED ANYTHING PICKED UP, THE TWO MEN DISCUSSED THE METAL CHUNKS AND WENT TO LOOK AT THEM, THEY LOADED THEM UP IN HIS WAGON AND ALL WENT TO TOWN. SHE WAS YOUNG AT THE TIME, BUT SHE SAID THAT SHE REMEMBERED GETTING NEW CLOTHES AND SHOES, AS DID THE REST OF THE FAMILY, AND MOM GOT A NEW COOK STOVE. SHE TOLD HIM THAT THE ROUGH PIECES OF METAL WERE LOW GRADE SILVER THAT WERE FROM A PARTIAL LOAD OF MULES THAT WERE ON THEIR WAY TO A LARGE REFINERY ABOUT FIFTY TO SEVENTY MILES TO THE SOUTH. SOMETHING SPOOKED THE MULE TRAIN WHILE CROSSING THE CREEK. ... LONG STORY SHORT... THE CHUNKS WERE SILVER BARS THAT WERE MADE AT THE MINE BY POURING MOLTEN SILVER INTO PLOWED LINES IN THE DIRT, MADE WITH A PICK, THEN LEFT TO COOL THEN BUNDLED AND LOADED TO GO TO THE SMELTING PLANT NEAR THE ARKANSAS RIVER. I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THIS UNTIL JIM TOLD ME THE STORY. DO ANY OF YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS PRACTICE ALSO...I AM THINKING OF USING A PHOTO THAT I WAS WORKING ON FOR THE COVER OF THE BOOK. SOME OF THE INFO ON THIS PHOTO WILL BE COVERED WITH OTHER SMALLER IMAGES. LET ME KNOW IF YOU THINK IT IS TOO REVEALING FOR A COVER. ((((((((((((((REPLACING COVER))))))))))))))))))))))) LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF BOTH SUBJECTS. MIKEL #/;0)~

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mikle: I have posted in here some where a story that during the Mexican
rev bandits were hitting the mines all too frequently. They would hit the mule trains and take a few mules that were loaded with silver bars.

Finally the mine got so disgusted that they repaired a bad part of the trail and started to use two wheel carts,

As for the silver they no longer cast it into bars, they would simply scrape out a shallow hole next to the furnace, dump the molten silver into the hole , then load the masive chunk of silver , perhaps 500 lbs - ounto a cart and go on their merry without guards'

They were hit once, but found the cart and it's cargo a few hundrd meters away where it had been abandoned by the bandits. Soon most of the mines were doing the same and banditry soon became a lost profession.



I personally would throw few misleading bits of info on the final map. SOME t Hunters are pretty sharp, despite Archaeologists opinion in general.

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy MIKEL,

Your story, and Don Jose's show that there was more than one way of doing things, making it unique.

I find maps very captivating, it would sure make the book stand out, and give me a motive to look into it.



Homar

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

DON JOSE, I THINK THAT WHAT YOU SAID HELPED ME TO DATE SOME OF MY PROBLEM AREAS. THAT IS IF YOU ARE USING DATE RANGE OF THE CHANGE FROM BARS TO HEMISPHERE SHAPED SILVER IN THE EARLY TO MID 1850s?? SOME OF THE TREE SIGNS ON SITE ARE ABOUT ONE HUNDRED SIXTY YEARS OLD. IT ALSO FITS IN THE STORY ABOUT THE LOST BARS.

IN THOSE DAYS BEFORE THE CART, DID THEY SEND ROUGH BARS TO BE BETTER REFINED. I WASN'T SURE, BY YOUR WORDING.

ALSO; THERE IS ONLY ABOUT 20% OF THE KNOWN LANDMARKS SHOWING AND I FOLDED SOME VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION BACKWARDS UNDER THE VISIBLE PART.

THANKS FOR THE INFO.


COAZON DE ORO, THAT REACTION TO THE MAP IS JUST WHAT I WAS HOPING FOR. I KNOW THAT I REACT THE SAME WAY. [EVEN THOU I STATE THAT THE BOOK WILL NOT LEAD ANYONE TO THE MINE.]

THERE ARE A FEW MISLEADS SHOWING, I CAN BE PARANOID RIGHT ALONG WITH THE BEST OF THE NUT CASES, KNOWN TO MAN.

JUST TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THE MAP, I DIDN'T HAVE THE MAP TO FIND THE MINE. I MADE THE MAP WHILE I WAS STUDYING THE MINE.

THANKS FOR THE REPLIES.

I'M HEADED BACK TO THE BOOK TO WORK. AT LEAST FOR AN HOUR, THEN I'LL GO CHECK THE BACK SIDES OF MY EYELIDS FOR CRACKS.

#/;0)~

 

[doc-d]

Senor Mikel, like the book idea…….
Senor Don Jose, hmm……Senor Mikel is writing, y tu
Vaya con Dios

 

[Crow]

OKAY FOLKS, I'M GONNA GIVE AWAY PART OF THE BOOK, [A VERY SMALL PIECE] I NEED A FEW WORDS OF ADVICE.

IN PART OF THE STORY, I HAVE RELATED A STORY THAT MY LATE PARTNER TOLD ME. HIS STORIES WERE USUALLY PERTINENT TO WHAT WE WERE DOING AT THAT MOMENT. THEY WERE ALSO PLENTIFUL.
I HAVE A FEW CHAPTERS THAT, IN PART, HINGE ON ONE OF HIS "PERSONAL EXPERIENCE" STORIES.

BEFORE I PUBLISH IT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ANYONE CAN ELSE CONCUR HIS INFO.

THE STORY IS ABOUT AN ELDERLY LADY THAT LIVED A FEW MILES AWAY FROM HIM, SHE TOLD HIM THE STORY JUST AS SHE EXPERIENCED IT. HER FATHER, WHILE PLOWING SOME BOTTOM LAND WITH A MULE AND HAND HELD PLOW, HIT SEVERAL PIECES OF CORRODED METAL AND THREW THEM INTO A PILE. SHORT VERSION. THE NEXT DAY A NEIGHBOR STOPPED BY ON HIS WAY INTO TOWN TO SEE IF THEY NEEDED ANYTHING PICKED UP, THE TWO MEN DISCUSSED THE METAL CHUNKS AND WENT TO LOOK AT THEM, THEY LOADED THEM UP IN HIS WAGON AND ALL WENT TO TOWN. SHE WAS YOUNG AT THE TIME, BUT SHE SAID THAT SHE REMEMBERED GETTING NEW CLOTHES AND SHOES, AS DID THE REST OF THE FAMILY, AND MOM GOT A NEW COOK STOVE.

SHE TOLD HIM THAT THE ROUGH PIECES OF METAL WERE LOW GRADE SILVER THAT WERE FROM A PARTIAL LOAD OF MULES THAT WERE ON THEIR WAY TO A LARGE REFINERY ABOUT FIFTY TO SEVENTY MILES TO THE SOUTH. SOMETHING SPOOKED THE MULE TRAIN WHILE CROSSING THE CREEK.

... LONG STORY SHORT... THE CHUNKS WERE SILVER BARS THAT WERE MADE AT THE MINE BY POURING MOLTEN SILVER INTO PLOWED LINES IN THE DIRT, MADE WITH A PICK, THEN LEFT TO COOL THEN BUNDLED AND LOADED TO GO TO THE SMELTING PLANT NEAR THE ARKANSAS RIVER.

I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THIS UNTIL JIM TOLD ME THE STORY.
DO ANY OF YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THIS PRACTICE

ALSO...I AM THINKING OF USING A PHOTO THAT I WAS WORKING ON FOR THE COVER OF THE BOOK. SOME OF THE INFO ON THIS PHOTO WILL BE COVERED WITH OTHER SMALLER IMAGES. LET ME KNOW IF YOU THINK IT IS TOO REVEALING FOR A COVER.
View attachment 1089990

LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF BOTH SUBJECTS.




MIKEL
#/;0)~

Hello Mikel

As the subject of the bars I have never heard of furrows made by a pick being used as a mold. Smelting crude silver bars are not as hard as people imagine as long as you can generate heat of a furnace by increasing the oxygen flow. I have heard of clay molds that have been fired in furnace and used to make silver bars. But not beyond the realms of impossibility.

As for a book cover maps in the back ground always ad an air of mystery and adventure. Well placed photographs 2 or 3 at most at various sizes will balance out your image. which you should show to portrid A-4 shape. A nice large bold font over the top half of ya map with a short title of book that is easy to remember. A small font underneath with brief blub of story3-4 words... And authors name at the bottom. Never put "by" at the bottom. Just authors name.

I hope this is of some help

Crow

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

THANK YOU, MY FRIENDS.

DOC-D, THANKS FOR THE BOOST. DON'T BE TOO HARD ON DON JOSE, HE HAS SPURRED ME ON FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW. I THINK HE MAY HAVE MORE PAGES THAN I DO.
I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON MINE FOR ABOUT A DECADE OR SO. [OFF AND ON] THIS THREAD HAS BEEN MY MOST ENCOURAGING GROUP.
I HAVE ONLY MADE 137 PAGES SO FAR, 15 CHAPTERS. MOST OF WHICH HAVE BEEN OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

THANK YOU CROW, AS WELL.
VERY ENCOURAGING WORDS OF ADVICE. YOU HAVE FOUND ANOTHER OF MY POCKETS OF IGNORANCE... WHAT IS ["PORTED A-4"]??
I FEEL AS IF I SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THIS, BUT I AM IN THE DARK AS TO WHAT THAT MEANS. I MAY HAVE DONE IT BEFORE AND JUST DIDN'T KNOW THE NAME, BUT I AM SURE THAT I NEED A SMALL LESSON ABOUT IT. I HAVE IDEAS AS TO WHICH PARTS NEED COVERING WITH TITLE AND SUCH THINGS AS PHOTOS TO ADD MYSTERY.
I AM A STUDENT OF THE ARTS OF DESIGN FOR THE COVER.

ALL HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.
MIKEL
#/;0)~

 

[doc-d]

Gracias Senor Mikel………and I will leave Señor Don Jose in peace till after ano nuevo…….then he better be prepared for the los tres Senoritas will be en route again…..
Vaya con Dios

 

[Crow]

Hello Mikel

Forgive me some times my near vision plays up I can barley see the letters to type. I meant to type Portrait A-4. It is the universal standard size format for most documents it can be reduced into paper back size.


Crow

 

[rockhound]

The book cover is enticing and will generate more than a few passing glances. I know where there is an old silver smelter, probably Swift's, and laying all around that smelter for hundreds of yards in all directions are pieces of melted rock fragments. Some almost as large as a basketball. Next to the smelter there is a round hollowed out section in a large rock, where they evidently poured the silver. It must have been more convenient to carry that size semi round slugs than other shapes. I have gathered some of the tailings that were thrown away and have checked them for silver content. There mining operations must have been top notch, as they left little to find. I have tried retracing their route back to the mine but it has been so long abandoned that the trail is barely visible. I know several times I have been close to it, but they must have concealed its location with great care. It is now national forest land and digging is not permitted, but the mystery still draws treasure hunters there looking to find the mine. I have dowsed it and received a positive lock, so I am almost sure of its location. Good Luck. rockhound

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Many silver ores were self fluxing. - lead. I have a little 1 kilo mould, it i approx 1 x 1 x 3 1/2 of cast iron, by SFB Co, Denver. I have seen them made out of charred wood, even clay. Since they are mine run bars, they are classified as Dore' bars. When they are refined they will be cast in a standard mould. Mouls were calssified as "Do what you can with what you have'"

Personally I even made my own cupels for assaying. I was famous for looking for poor ole cows that had died for their bones, I.E. .a bone collector.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I have just found oout tat the 'horse map' fits the Caballo mt. very well. ?? Csn it be that the story of a Mission in Sonora is true -----? Are there three separate maps ? Hmmmmm

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

CROW, THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP FOR ME. I UNDERSTAND THE TROUBLE WITH THE FINGERS AND KEYBOARD. I STOPPED SIGNING OFF FROM LETTERS BY SAYING "REGARDS" ... THE "G" AND THE "T" KEYS ARE TOO CLOSE.

DON JOSE, THANKS FOR THE INFO ABOUT SMELTING AND REFINING. I MAY NEED TO TAP INTO THAT ART IF I'M LUCKY.
THERE IS ALWAYS NEW INFO HERE FOR THE HUNGRY MIND.

MIKEL
#/;0)~

 

[coazon de oro]

I have just found oout tat the 'horse map' fits the Caballo mt. very well. ?? Csn it be that the story of a Mission in Sonora is true -----? Are there three separate maps ? Hmmmmm

Really Compadre? Now you make me wonder if you really have found Tayopa.

Homar

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

You 'cotton pickin right I have,' just clearing up the method of shipping clandestine profits to Rome. Drink yer coffee

Just the horse map, so I have a feeling that they are three separate maps, but confusion remains, were they capable of such work in those days ?? So perhaps the stoy of them coming from a mission - Jesuit -- just may be true.

Will post the reason of why My curiosity was raised later today.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Corozone, look what 'some hiker' posted this morning on the horse map ----post 2812 in the lost Dutchman mine.



perhaps I am not so crazy after all, if so you owe me a cuppa coffee.

P.S. but we did differ on some of the points.

 

[doc-d]

Senor Coazon, don't stat doubting our Señor Jose, the last person on this thread to do that…….I won't say his name, but…
Vaya con Dios

 

[rockhound]

Of course much of what I said is pure speculation. The indentions in the rocks were laced with minute particles of silver, although they didn't show parched or heated signs which limestone often reveals after heating. They could have poured in another medium, maybe sand then transferred into these rock molds for a final sizing. Limestone normal bursts or cracks with excessive heat and these show no signs of that. The slag had been melted, to the point of crystalizing, to remove the ore from the rock. Whoever did this smelting was a professional and left little to analyze in the remains. Rumors and tales exist about John Swift and his band doing this, and it is known that Swift was a metallurgist by trade. Many mysteries abound and it is intriguing to search and possibly uncover the truth about these long ago tales. The video of the map is indeed interesting. If it were not so far away I might look into it further. Good luck and keep searching. rockhound

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Doc yer coffee is ready'



Rock hound it is another link in the construction of the Tayopa story. As for your self fluxing silver, it melts at a lower temperature.

 

[doc-d]

Senor Don Jose, would love to drive up but am having trouble with that little stretch in northern Columbia and southern Panama…….
Keep the coffee warm and I'll bring up some cane liquor……..