Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[Interested Party in UK]

TT

No doubt its not the monetary value of collecting postcards for me.

As for the treasure....Well I am not a treasure hunter my friend. And its not easy to get people interested to invest money on such a venture. Especially without legal frame work in place. The Polar Mist operation cost 4 million dollars and that was just one week in perfect weather. Such a project with the Isis would cost at least 4 million if not more. Not guarantee getting again such good weather down in which you might have to wait weeks for good weather. That and uncertain legal status....things are not so easy.

When you go through all the crap to finally become a sea captain and you take command of your first ship, you change. A Ship becomes your baby or little empire, it grows on you like having a pet dog. The ship becomes and old friend you know all its creaks and groans. Yet the time comes when she becomes unfit to sail the seas. You have memories of her and the crews that once inhabited her with a tinge of sadness, as many of them have passed on. But most of all you get this strange communion when once you have sailed her as captain and she a queen, that cuts through the ocean like a knife. These post cards for me reminders of once what was.

Even the ships I never sailed on I can appreciate beauty they remind me of my queens. As my wife laughs the other women in my life.,

No doubt there is few ex Navy or merchant salt's here where I am coming from will understand.

And of course once again my Queen calls me again as I am taking on a cargo of raw sugar tomorrow. Paperwork for me alas.

Mal

Out of interest, SSM, what would be the largest and most vital expenses in any attempt at recovering the goodies on Isis?

I'm sure hiring transportation, professionals and the correct equipment don't come cheap.

Would the legal hassle be long-winded or fairly straightforward in such circumstances?

I recall coming across mucho plenty evidence of the Teutonic folk having solid connections in South America due to a number of their peeps settling there...

They overcame many embargoes and rationing with supplies and materials from there during World War 2, and of course, many fled there after the defeat...

IPUK

 

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[audigger53]

Out of interest, SSM, what would be the largest and most vital expenses in any attempt at recovering the goodies on Isis?

I'm sure hiring transportation, professionals and the correct equipment don't come cheap.

Would the legal hassle be long-winded or fairly straightforward in such circumstances?

I recall coming across mucho plenty evidence of the Teutonic folk having solid connections in South America due to a number of their peeps settling there...

They overcame many embargoes and rationing with supplies and materials from there during World War 2, and of course, many fled there after the defeat...

IPUK

I believe that you are in England. Have you thought about using a metal detector there? The laws are much nicer there than here in the States. At least you can get money from your finds there, here they want to claim it as "Historical Artifacts".
Or in Texas as "Stolen Property". "There were so many holdups in Texas that you have to prove it was not from a robbery or it goes to the State. If you sell gold coins, when the 4th one is sold they come knocking at the door. That was what I was told when I was living there. I asked about it.

 

[audigger53]

Now I may get yelled at, but if I had to believe stories from Dobie, I would put more truth to those than from Mitchel. A lot of Mitchel's stories seemed to be off shoots of Dobie's. Now the stories were written to make money from people buying them, so they never said or cared (IMO) if they had been found. They were selling books. Again just my Opinion.

 

[Interested Party in UK]

I believe that you are in England. Have you thought about using a metal detector there? The laws are much nicer there than here in the States. At least you can get money from your finds there, here they want to claim it as "Historical Artifacts".
Or in Texas as "Stolen Property". "There were so many holdups in Texas that you have to prove it was not from a robbery or it goes to the State. If you sell gold coins, when the 4th one is sold they come knocking at the door. That was what I was told when I was living there. I asked about it.

Yes, I am in England.

You make a valid point about our laws concerning Treasure Trove being very fair and balanced; every now and then a spectacular hoard - mostly from Roman and pre-Roman times - and the finders are adequately compensated without much ado. Unfortunately, if we calculate the ratio of detectorists to finds, it is very rare to strike a "biggie".

I do not know whether it's a yearning for the "other" or simply blissful ignorance on my part, but I have always admired the American Way where regulations, rules and barriers were kept to a minimum to always assist those with the foresight, initiative and focus to go and work hard in making any "discovery." Of course, over the years many might/must have taken advantage and purposely ignored stipulations in place to protect various facets of the locality, history etc., but perhaps the treasure-hunter/researcher has had a bad press over the years and faults are guessed by some who then, in the process, increase their own conceit when one reveals their interest/hobby or profession.

In my few short years of "being in the field" of this line of work, I have seen many thoroughly decent, honest, straight and highly likeable folk. The less desirable, ambiguous, evasive and unpredictable, I simply give a wide berth to...


IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

I believe that you are in England. Have you thought about using a metal detector there? The laws are much nicer there than here in the States. At least you can get money from your finds there, here they want to claim it as "Historical Artifacts".
Or in Texas as "Stolen Property". "There were so many holdups in Texas that you have to prove it was not from a robbery or it goes to the State. If you sell gold coins, when the 4th one is sold they come knocking at the door. That was what I was told when I was living there. I asked about it.

Audigger...yeah from much of the discussions and debates on the potential find of the Forrest Fenn treasure in the rocky mountains, I also came to realize that there is quite a complicated regulation in america..but I think each state has its own regulations...mostly unfavourable ...with the exception perhaps states like Florida...
TT

 

[South Sea mariner]

MAL, You get the same feeling for certain aircraft also. Front row third from the left., the runt.. Checking out on a DC/3

View attachment 1414211 .`

Done Jose I imagine it is same with aircraft. Especially anything you have to trust your life with. I suppose that's why those aircraft in WW2 had their own pet names.

Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

Is it true then that captains stick to a sinking boat or ship to the end rather abandon it?I thought it was only the stuff of Hollywood and titanic story.
TT

Hello TT

Not Quite true as it was an old school thing..... I ain't going down with my ship if I do not have too :-) Although I have never parked one on the Bottom.

For me I could not leave my ship until all the welfare of my ships crew was accounted for. I if some of my crew was trapped I would probably drown attempted to save them. For me being a captain you earned responsibility after long years working on the Job. Its that sense of responsibility and sense of guilt and honor one earns as captain.

As for the captain of the Concordia, He should of been the last man to step off that ship. Not be one of the first to flee to shore. I worked from the Bottom up to become captain. The new generation comes through University and marine colleges with no experience under their rank Today. While I have no doubt many new captains are bright but lack the real honor and integrity of those who have worked from the ground up.

In my family line my ancestor when first came to Chile was jack tar professional sailor from the Napoleonic war to fight for independence in 1817. Those Jag tar's sea dogs of England married local senoritas and fostered a strong naval tradition and strong seafaring traditions in which followed down through the family business. We have been in shipping business since the 1862 nitrate boom shipping "salt Peter" From then on as booms came and went the company had to re invent itself even a brief time in the passenger trade. So far we have been 165 years in business in one form or another changing to suit the need of market conditions. Sadly our company is mere ghost of itself with 2 vessels. Once we had ten after WW2.

While I say my family are no bad off they have always made family members work in family business from the ground up. With no favoritism You had to earn your stripes. It fosters strong work effics. Today my older brother was also a sea captain is CEO. he is retired from the sea. My mother was CEO from the time of my Dads death in 1985. Since 1985 to 2005 my mum the first women CEO took over and saved the company from bankruptcy. in 2005 my older brother retired from the sea, and took on the role of CEO, And I became principle captain in turn. while do have other captains working for us as the ship never sleeps always working. even then we had survived difficult marked condition completing in the Free market. We had a bad run just after 2008 global downturn where we had to mothball a ship and we was losing out to foreign competition. 2014 we ran out of trade and I got stuck in foreign port. Yet here we are 2017 still here hauling ass :-)

I have one Nephew and Two sons following the trade as they in turn will be the next generation. When I retire from the sea I will become CEO when my brother retires. His son will become principle Captain. and my 2 sons will follow in his footsteps. I figure I have 10 years left in me. 5 if my wife has her way:-)

So you see table talk about ships is the norm at family gathering having so many sea Captains in the family.:-)

Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

Out of interest, SSM, what would be the largest and most vital expenses in any attempt at recovering the goodies on Isis?

I'm sure hiring transportation, professionals and the correct equipment don't come cheap.

Would the legal hassle be long-winded or fairly straightforward in such circumstances?

I recall coming across mucho plenty evidence of the Teutonic folk having solid connections in South America due to a number of their peeps settling there...

They overcame many embargoes and rationing with supplies and materials from there during World War 2, and of course, many fled there after the defeat...

IPUK

Hello IPUK you have answered the question you have asked, but also fuel costs I would add to it. As for legal issues once again that is outside my area of expertise as I am not a salvage expert or versed in the legal aspects of such an operation. But I could imagine as soon as you brought gold up claims would come left right and center.

As for fleeing Germans yes Chile had their fair share of ex Nazis just as Argentina and other South America. But their family descendants are just as much be selling you ice cream or a dinner at one of Bavarian type tourist bars around the country. They do not hold much political interest since the fall of General Pinochet.

Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

Really interesting stuff chaps.

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if any government's eavesdropping agency was listening in and heard the words "ISIS", "German", "sunk", "millions of dollars", "mission", "top secret"....

Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick...




IPUK

Hello IPUK

Funny point? Perhaps they are? Better look out the window there might be a black van with tinted windows :-)

Nothing interesting about me last time I was investigated they fell through me.:-) If boring was crime I would get convicted :-)

Yet time for paperwork again. I have loitered enough today.

Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

IPUK

Another thing to be aware of a ship in 250 meters of water retires a highly specialized diving team and equipment. Also without the plans of the ship ISIS. It would be hard to locate the Bullion room on the ship. Being an Iron ship sunk over 100 years or so? Its most likely collapsing in on itself Thus making hard and dangerous recovery job. The German shipping Company did not survive WW1 and any more detailed records of the plan of the ship may have never survived the bombing of Germany in ww2?

Thus as you can see that an prohibitive coast of operation with uncertain legal ownership would make it a every difficult and dangerous operation based on the claims of a 1902 newspaper story?

Mal

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hello IPUK

Funny point? Perhaps they are? Better look out the window there might be a black van with tinted windows :-)

Nothing interesting about me last time I was investigated they fell through me.:-) If boring was crime I would get convicted :-)

Yet time for paperwork again. I have loitered enough today.

Mal

Nowadays the men in black van with tinted windows have more stuff in their hands spying their own commander in chief ..if u know what I mean
TT

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hello TT

Not Quite true as it was an old school thing..... I ain't going down with my ship if I do not have too :-) Although I have never parked one on the Bottom.

For me I could not leave my ship until all the welfare of my ships crew was accounted for. I if some of my crew was trapped I would probably drown attempted to save them. For me being a captain you earned responsibility after long years working on the Job. Its that sense of responsibility and sense of guilt and honor one earns as captain.

As for the captain of the Concordia, He should of been the last man to step off that ship. Not be one of the first to flee to shore. I worked from the Bottom up to become captain. The new generation comes through University and marine colleges with no experience under their rank Today. While I have no doubt many new captains are bright but lack the real honor and integrity of those who have worked from the ground up.

In my family line my ancestor when first came to Chile was jack tar professional sailor from the Napoleonic war to fight for independence in 1817. Those Jag tar's sea dogs of England married local senoritas and fostered a strong naval tradition and strong seafaring traditions in which followed down through the family business. We have been in shipping business since the 1862 nitrate boom shipping "salt Peter" From then on as booms came and went the company had to re invent itself even a brief time in the passenger trade. So far we have been 165 years in business in one form or another changing to suit the need of market conditions. Sadly our company is mere ghost of itself with 2 vessels. Once we had ten after WW2.

While I say my family are no bad off they have always made family members work in family business from the ground up. With no favoritism You had to earn your stripes. It fosters strong work effics. Today my older brother was also a sea captain is CEO. he is retired from the sea. My mother was CEO from the time of my Dads death in 1985. Since 1985 to 2005 my mum the first women CEO took over and saved the company from bankruptcy. in 2005 my older brother retired from the sea, and took on the role of CEO, And I became principle captain in turn. while do have other captains working for us as the ship never sleeps always working. even then we had survived difficult marked condition completing in the Free market. We had a bad run just after 2008 global downturn where we had to mothball a ship and we was losing out to foreign competition. 2014 we ran out of trade and I got stuck in foreign port. Yet here we are 2017 still here hauling ass :-)

I have one Nephew and Two sons following the trade as they in turn will be the next generation. When I retire from the sea I will become CEO when my brother retires. His son will become principle Captain. and my 2 sons will follow in his footsteps. I figure I have 10 years left in me. 5 if my wife has her way:-)

So you see table talk about ships is the norm at family gathering having so many sea Captains in the family.:-)

Mal

Quite a resourceful and hard working family business community you have! Wish you success!
TT

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Mal, as the PIC, pilot in command, you are generally the last man off, similar to yout rule of the sea, take care of your men first

 

[South Sea mariner]

Nowadays the men in black van with tinted windows have more stuff in their hands spying their own commander in chief ..if u know what I mean
TT

Yep I say they have more important things to worry about? A fair few of them are going to get purged....

Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

Quite a resourceful and hard working family business community you have! Wish you success!
TT

Hello TT

Its a cutthroat industry these days. One has to be resourceful to survive. My family business is a small tadpole in a sea of sharks.

But perhaps there is still a window of opportunity yet.?

The Atacama desert is full of Lithium: It is truly Chile's future buried treasure. The vast salt flats of the Atacama desert are one of the best places in the world to extract the metal. Yet mining of it at present is minimal? There is push between various mining concerns to mine the material in larger economies of scale. As well as mineral processing they looking export ore to various countries most likely to various counties in South East Asia. demand and production went up 12% last year

Our future push is capitalize on shipping of ore to processing plants in South east Asia. Yet we have to be ready to be in the right place in bidding for the contract. For my family business it would be a massive boost in which we would need to secure large amounts of venture capital to expand looking a fleet of extra Four combo container/ bulk carriers. that and maintain our current bulk sugar, cement and general container shipping interests.

Ideally we would transport Lithium to Asia then on return trip bring back containers of good from Asia to Chile. While we currently bring cement to Fiji and pacific islands we return with raw sugar. With small trade in containers to supplement operating costs.

Some times treasure can be in other things than gold or silver?



Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

Mal, as the PIC, pilot in command, you are generally is the last man off, similar to yout rule of the sea, take care of your men first

My sentiments exactly....

Mal

 

[audigger53]

TT Florida is worse than most. 80% or more if within 12 miles if I remember correctly. They tried to make it 13 miles after Mel Fisher find at 12 &1/2 miles off shore, "Retroactive" to include his find. That one got tossed out, but the Feds came in and took about 1/2 from him as "Historical Artifacts". It's what we get for electing crooks. LOL

 

[tintin_treasure]

TT Florida is worse than most. 80% or more if within 12 miles if I remember correctly. They tried to make it 13 miles after Mel Fisher find at 12 &1/2 miles off shore, "Retroactive" to include his find. That one got tossed out, but the Feds came in and took about 1/2 from him as "Historical Artifacts". It's what we get for electing crooks. LOL

That is quite unfair...the other thing is even if one drags
it to court and wins... ultimately the legal costs to lawyers would be enormous that essentially the treasure would be transfered to the lawyers..
TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

IPUK

Another thing to be aware of a ship in 250 meters of water retires a highly specialized diving team and equipment. Also without the plans of the ship ISIS. It would be hard to locate the Bullion room on the ship. Being an Iron ship sunk over 100 years or so? Its most likely collapsing in on itself Thus making hard and dangerous recovery job. The German shipping Company did not survive WW1 and any more detailed records of the plan of the ship may have never survived the bombing of Germany in ww2?

Thus as you can see that an prohibitive coast of operation with uncertain legal ownership would make it a every difficult and dangerous operation based on the claims of a 1902 newspaper story?

Mal

Hello SSM,

That is why with all things watery, it is best to leave such pursuits to the specialists in that particular field.

Personally, I have been known to feel 'sea-sick' taking my kids pond dipping..., having seen footage of the wild seas and oceans, I would be an utter hindrance..., but, if we are talking about some lonely spot on an island 🌴 idyll in the Pacific that has a rumoured cache or two, well..., then you're talking more my 'stuff'....


IPUK

 

[Interested Party in UK]

That is quite unfair...the other thing is even if one drags
it to court and wins... ultimately the legal costs to lawyers would be enormous that essentially the treasure would be transfered to the lawyers..
TT

Hey TT,

The above comment you make reminds me of a court case I came across whilst in India.

I'd heard, whilst still in England, about an absolutely huge estate in the middle of New Delhi where prices are about, or even more, expensive than New York, London, Tokyo and suchlike. This estate was truly humongous and belonged to a former maharajah. The estate was simply locked-up after his death and the caretaker given the keys whilst the ownership was contested in the courts. Now this palace, had a fleet of the most amazing vintage luxury automobiles, art from across the globe, furniture from the best craftsmen the world has offered, jewellery and fashionwear from the greatest shopping houses in Europe, and there it was - simply covered and 'rotting' away...

It all started when India became independent from the Britishers in 1947. Most maharajahs lost their fortunes, estates and privileges. Note I said "most". This particular chap somehow retained his fortune and properties across the country. He had three daughters and an heir to the throne. Unfortunately, the son and heir died in an automobile accident in the early 1980s. Mr maharajah feel into a deep depression and stopped taking care of himself. He died shortly after as well.

His maharani and three princesses believed that they'd inherit husband's and daddy's wealth as there were next in line. Apparently the maharajah's court officials had other ideas and, it is alleged, forged a will giving themselves sole control with a small monthly allowance to the queeny and princesses .

They contested that the 'will' was forged and that the maharajah had been duped, confidence tricked and coerced into not making a new will for the females of his family after the son had died. To cut a long story short, decades later, queeny died in frustration never seeing any resolution, one of the daughters died and the two left are now in their 80s and have finally won the battle over their father's fortune of about £2,500,000,000 or nearly $3.5 Billion.

Unfortunately it doesn't end there...

Obviously the court officials couldn't "touch" the fixed properties and assets like the gems, jewels etc., however the cold hard cash which the maharajahs used to keep literally in high piles in their treasuries, nobody seems to know how much is left or where it went or how much the lawyers claimed over the decades long civil case...

IPUK

NB. There is another such case involving double-dealings of a Nizam from the days of the Mughals in India and this chap was the richest man in the world in the 1930s, and even saw fit to use a £50,000,000 ($60Million) diamond as a paperweight in his study. He was rather fond of the ladies and literally had hundreds of children who all made a claim to his wealth after his death in the 1960s...