Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[audigger53]

AUDIGGER, why would you guys use so much ammo, when you had the ability to simply line up perpendicular to the shore and dock the ship?

Or did they only do that on U. S. Docks?...

:-)

No docks off the coast. We were close to shore, normally 800 to 1000 yards off shore, not anchored, just sitting or steaming enough to stay put. Now 1000 yards Nautical is 1/2 mile. So when I say our range was 18,700 yards, that was 9 miles and 700 yards. Now the heavy cruisers would also use "Rap Rounds", rocket assisted 8 inch rounds to carry up to 20 miles. Now "Sea Dragon", the USS New Jersey, was 16 inch, I think and those were good for 24 miles with 1500 LB HE, High Explosive. The thing was the ship was a stable platform as far as the guns were concerned. The Fire Control; computer had the Gyro Compass feed into it, the Gun Director and it's radar heading and range also could be feed in. The shipps speed, rotation of the Earth, all of it into that old WWII analog computer. If the guns were "locked on" the barrels were stable to the horizon. The ship would move up and down and back and forth but the guns when locked would stay perfect to the horizon as the gun mounts motors were also tied in. As far as the guns were concerned, the entire world moved, not them. Made for a very stable firing platform. If you see any of the old "War at Sea or Victory at Sea" movies and see the ships rolling back and forth and up and down and the gun barrels are not moving to the horizon, they are "locked on" and firing or ready to.

 

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[audigger53]

AUDIGGER, why would you guys use so much ammo, when you had the ability to simply line up perpendicular to the shore and dock the ship?

Or did they only do that on U. S. Docks?...

:-)

Also when we would run low on ammo. we would steam out to a supply ship and then they would "High Line" over more cases of 5 inch rounds and power cases. They would have a winch on there side, but ours was all hand powered. Heavy line between us and them and then pull the load over on a pulley and hand carry the rounds to the Magazine. Below the mount was the "Merry Go Round", racks that held 24 rounds and powder casings. If both barrels were firing, a really good gun crew could load and fire every 2-3 seconds on each barrel. There were 2 separate cranking mechs for the rounds and 2 for the powder casings. All done by hand, with strong arms and backs. A "good gun crew" with full crews for both barrels could empty the Merry go round in less than a minute. When firing support there was only one barrel used at a time per mount, no rush. Once the Merry go round was empty, then the rounds had to be carried from the powder magazine to the Merry go round by hand so rate of fire would drop dramatically. My luck was that when I was "Off" we would steam out to reload/rearm or refuel. So the 12 off didn't include a lot of sleep time. Also had to swap with the other crew for meals. That's why sleep was fairly shot supply and allowed me to learn to sleep through the blasts and the brass powder casings hitting the deck above me.

 

[Mackaydon]

audigger53,
Yes, and who could forget the music and the opening line in each episode of the Victory at Sea series (1952+) narrated by Leonard Graves.............."And now.........."
Don..........

 

[audigger53]

audigger53,
Yes, and who could forget the music and the opening line in each episode of the Victory at Sea series (1952+) narrated by Leonard Graves.............."And now.........."
Don..........

My Dad was asked to write up his account of Pearl Harbor back in 59 for them. The story behind his Navy Cross. I read it before he sent it off, back the show closed before they did his story.

 

[Mackaydon]

I don't recall the series 'War at Sea' but I certainly remember the series "Crusade in the Pacific" narrated by Westbrook Van Voorhis.
Don.......

 

[audigger53]

I took my bombardier training at Dahlgren,Virg. Vaval Proving ground. in 42. They were testing the 5 / 38. it was a mean sob for blast unless right behind it/ The 18" was not so bad. My hats of to your gunnery Officier.

Here this is only part of the story. He also got the Navy Marine Medal in 1942 in a non combat action.
World War 2 Awards.com - BOTHNE, Adolph M.

 

[Interested Party in UK]

That time of the week again...

This one comes from Panama and involves pirates, Spanish nobles, holy fathers of the church, an enormous hidden treasure and one extremely forward-thinking and hard-working (not to mention lucky...) Englishman.

At the end of World War One when there was a general mood of despondency and hopelessness across swathes of Europe after four years of bitter, unforgiving and desperate fighting. Many ex-service personnel were returning to civilian life with bleak prospects for the future. One such chap left the army of Great Britain after having served as a lieutenant in the Royal Engineers. Whilst serving his tours of duty he had been shown equipment where it was possible to "detect" metallic objects under the surface of the earth using a transmitter of electrical impulses and a receiver. The technology was being developed and used by mineral and oil prospectors and the military wanted to incorporate it into their armoury as weapons and tactics were rapidly changing from yesteryear. This chap after being discharged honourably from the army, had always wanted to travel, look for adventure, tinker with new and emerging technology and most importantly of all...get really rich as he was absolutely broke. The small amount he did have on him, he'd expended on trying to develop his "metal detector."

After some years, during the 1920s, he had built two devices which he believed would help him find buried objects from times gone by...

He started delving into records, archives and history books that, thankfully, we here in England, are blessed with aplenty. At first, it was pretty overwhelming to try and make sense of where to begin and where he might have the best rate of success with his new gadgets. Then as now, there was a huge list of potential spots around the globe where he could have gone to in order to test his new contraptions. One story that really captured his attention and caught his imagination, was of a certain Henry Morgan who had raided and amassed a humongous fortune from the Spanish in the Americas. He couldn't believe how this Welshman had taken his bands of cutthroats and laid waste to such large swathes of their territories in the New World.

The one raid that particularly intrigued him, was the one in 1671 on Panama City where it was hoped by Morgan and his fellow villains, they'd land their biggest prize to date due to the sheer amount of wealth that was reported by all to exist there. After launching the raid and capturing Panama City, the pirates were extremely disappointed to find limited wealth and took their frustrations out on the populace they'd captured and offered no mercy to child, woman, the elderly or clergy. All were fair game for torture and murder in the race to uncover where the city's wealth had been hidden. This is not to say they didn't come away empty-handed: they took away hundreds of mule-loads of treasure which the conniving Morgan cheated his fellow pirates out of. But what got Johnny Englishman was what had happened to the great amount of wealth that didn't fall into the clutches of the pirates...?

The evidence from the time detailed that Panama City had been raided on previous occasions by Dutch and Frenchie freebooters and the Spanish authorities had gone to great trouble to reinforce the city with defences and soldiers, and they were confident of defeating the pirates. Also, the extremely wealthy nobles, traders, church officials and other residents, had not tried to flee the city with their valuables and had literally banked on the authorities defeating the invaders.

Further research showed that after the sacking of Panama City and its total destruction, it was many years after before the Spanish rebuilt a 'new' Panama City at a location different to where the 'old' one was located. By now, English was getting the itch to make tracks to Central America...but being the disciplined and focused individual that his training in the British army had given him as an officer, he thought it wise to see what bureaucracy existed in order for one to start "treasure-hunting" in Panama. It was not good news. He was informed that he would need to purchase a permit for $10,000 and it was non-negotiable.

Was his dream over before it had even begun?

In the face of adversity, he let his qualities that distinguished English people (and many others!) and especially educated ex-army officers, shine. He called on former colleagues who were now working in various government departments, had business connections in Panama and those that might influence decision makers in that country. He, with some audacity, wrote directly to the Panamanian president presenting himself and his amazing gadget and promising a huge return for any concessions. At the time, the British government routinely interjected with foreign governments for the betterment of its citizens and companies...

How could the Panamanian el Presidente refuse?

After some wrangling about division of spoils, a contract was negotiated to the agreement of both parties. English wouldn't advertise what he was doing, he wouldn't sell shares or form a company, he would agree to the valuation placed on any objects found, by the Panamanians, they would send observers with him, there would be timescales he'd need to adhere to and he wouldn't be able to keep any finds.

It was full steam ahead.

English knew he had one opportunity to show el Presidente and his officials that the "detector" he had would be like nothing used before...The Panamanians had told him that they would be present at the first dig and that it'd better be a good one!!

He took all of this in his stride and knew he'd have to get it right if he was to make any positive impression. Things started on a bad footing when one of the detectors was stolen from his cabin on the journey to Central America. English had been wise enough to move a small but vital piece from both contraptions that without those pieces, neither would work. Knowing how hard it would be to find parts where he was heading and how important the devices were to any success he wished for, he protected the remaining detector with all he had.

On reaching Panama, he was given a pre-checked and cleared labouring crew by the Panamanian authorities and couldn't believe how strong and efficient these black gentlemen worked when he put them to clearing areas of the old site of Panama City. He settled on excavating the ruined old cathedral first as he believed this would be surely the place where many would have felt "safe and secure." Once the spot had been cleared of nearly two-and-a-half centuries of jungle growth, word was sent to el Presidente and other dignitaries about the "moment of truth" for Englishman. When all were gathered, English started waving his contraption over the fallen masonry, burned wooden beams and piles of dirt...

'BEEP,BEEP', went the signal into his earphones...sure enough when he started digging, he found a partly crushed solid golden goblet that still lustered like it must have when hastily abandoned/secreted during Morgan's attack. With cool
aplomb English presented it to El Presidente with the words " The first fruit of our harvest, Mr President and may it be the presage of many golden days for you and the Republic!"

Needless to say this won him instant favour and he was given any assistance he needed and even a base in Ancon from where he could operate without hindrance!

In the following days and weeks, a silver sanctuary bell, a gold, jewel-encrusted reliquary, gold patens, gold cruets, a huge gold platter, a richly carved solid gold door(possibly from the tabernacle of the altar), a gold monstrance and many other silver and gold items....they were well and truly on the way. The 'mistake' that Morgan's men had made was too rapidly check all the buildings for valuables and then, in a fit of anger and disgust, set fire to the city which allowed the buildings to collapse and make it impossible for secret passages, tunnels and depositories to be checked for....The pirates had felt that any treasure would have been moved outside the city limits as had happened on their other raids on the Spanish Main...

English, with hard work and foresight, had hit the jackpot. The sea-front of present-day Panama City, was built with funds accrued by the treasures uncovered by Englishman, and the authorities were delighted with his efforts. English built himself a huge estate and partook in his only vice of gambling in what is known as the "Sport of the Kings" - horse racing. He bought, raced and gambled with thoroughbreds he acquired and enjoyed his new found wealth in every way...

The old sites excavated by English are now a tourist attraction- Panama Viejo - the Panamanian authorities delighted in displaying the best of the treasure uncovered to visiting dignitaries and even at the Canal that was achieving prominence. They raised enough funds to rebuild a large portion of the current capital. This was all from the endeavours of one chap with a dream and an idea...

This is not the end.

Some years into the treasure search, a huge golden globe was found in 'secret' tunnels that somehow were connected to the sea that the old authorities had built as a last defence against invaders and had flooded when Morgan entered the city. The globe was not unlike those that exist/ed with Mary holding Jesus in one hand and a symbolic globe with a cross in the other...Documents uncovered in previous research detailed a "life size" statue of Mary made of solid gold from nuggets which had been collected from the natives in the interior, and then presented to the first Spanish governor of the old Panama City. English had found the globe with the cross on, when they'd dredged one of the flooded tunnels...

True story folks.



IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

IPUK....thanks bro! I read the enjoyable yarn reclining on my bed on a cold winter Friday here,...Johnny English was truly a gentleman who set his goal specific and went step by step to achieve it...but as u mentioned other factors were there for his success...the commitment of the English gov to back his citizens (at least in those days...we got the hint there.. )...the relative flexibility of the panama authorities in a joint collaboration and their willingness to be helpful as they saw progress ( but now panama is different and a ground for non encouraging ways of doing business to put it mildly...)....
Very good yarn indeed!...I once read captain Morgan actually commanded thousands of pirates! Who knows other treasures from his spoils would be waiting....
Thanks bro!
TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

IPUK....thanks bro! I read the enjoyable yarn reclining on my bed on a cold winter Friday here,...Johnny English was truly a gentleman who set his goal specific and went step by step to achieve it...but as u mentioned other factors were there for his success...the commitment of the English gov to back his citizens (at least in those days...we got the hint there.. )...the relative flexibility of the panama authorities in a joint collaboration and their willingness to be helpful as they saw progress ( but now panama is different and a ground for non encouraging ways of doing business to put it mildly...)....
Very good yarn indeed!...I once read captain Morgan actually commanded thousands of pirates! Who knows other treasures from his spoils would be waiting....
Thanks bro!
TT

That's quite alright, TT - you're welcome mate.

These days unless you are a multi-national with political influence and lobbyists, it is highly unlikely one would get any backing from government. Self-interest is the rule of the day. I am not saying it wasn't in times gone by - just that it is ever more prevalent. Times have changed, what was acceptable then isn't so much now.

Panama is still a 'delicate' place to do 'business'. I recall some years back, a Panamanian diplomat stationed in Europe was using his position to smuggle priceless artefacts from South and Central America until he got caught in the act.

The Welsh pirate and sometime privateer Morgan, has been mentioned in a fair few treasure spots in the Caribbean as well as various places on the South and Central American mainland. What is undisputed is that he had a huge fortune and was very guarded and secretive about it...

Same again next week


IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

That's quite alright, TT - you're welcome mate.

These days unless you are a multi-national with political influence and lobbyists, it is highly unlikely one would get any backing from government. Self-interest is the rule of the day. I am not saying it wasn't in times gone by - just that it is ever more prevalent. Times have changed, what was acceptable then isn't so much now.

Panama is still a 'delicate' place to do 'business'. I recall some years back, a Panamanian diplomat stationed in Europe was using his position to smuggle priceless artefacts from South and Central America until he got caught in the act.

The Welsh pirate and sometime privateer Morgan, has been mentioned in a fair few treasure spots in the Caribbean as well as various places on the South and Central American mainland. What is undisputed is that he had a huge fortune and was very guarded and secretive about it...

Same again next week


IPUK

Thanks IPUK....one other thing we can learn from the yarn is the bold move of the Englishman to deploy an unknown military tech to try on THunting....now we have drones commercialized that once were only military wares...maybe one could think of using these small remote controlled drones with cameras for THing...especially in spying dangerous areas like overhanging cliffs in coasts if there are caves with any sign of interesting features...to check beforehand rather than risk one neck...
Thanks!
TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Thanks IPUK....one other thing we can learn from the yarn is the bold move of the Englishman to deploy an unknown military tech to try on THunting....now we have drones commercialized that once were only military wares...maybe one could think of using these small remote controlled drones with cameras for THing...especially in spying dangerous areas like overhanging cliffs in coasts if there are caves with any sign of interesting features...to check beforehand rather than risk one neck...
Thanks!
TT

Good point TT: I believe many individuals/groups are using the latest technology to aid and abet their treasure-hunting.

Some lessons I have learned from my own efforts are, you more than likely need sizeable resources and backing if you are going to enter the field. It is ever so easy to start spending and very difficult to know when to stop or even to take stock and see if any cache/treasure/hoard exists/ed and if it is still there.

Many times whilst poring over books, journals, archives or on my visits, I do sometimes wonder whether this is the "right" thing to do. Should I be making the most of my time with my family, should I be spending my money elsewhere, could I even be gaining another skills-set to give myself a better remuneration package, am I really into this as a hobby or something far more entrenched??

So much to decide on.

It can sometimes get bewildering and indecisive in knowing what to pursue and what to let go of. It is terribly disappointing when you've spent so long on a particular story and then find it was all a fantastical musing of some sharp, but naughty, person who put it into the public domain for their own amusement, or even some folk have just made a genuine mistake in relaying the 'facts' as they believed them. Through trial and error, get to the bottom of anything you want to investigate as quick as possible.

But one thing is for sure..., this profession has its claws into me and I want to uncover treasure, be rich and successful and make the very most of any and all opportunities that come my way.




IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

Good point TT: I believe many individuals/groups are using the latest technology to aid and abet their treasure-hunting.

Some lessons I have learned from my own efforts are, you more than likely need sizeable resources and backing if you are going to enter the field. It is ever so easy to start spending and very difficult to know when to stop or even to take stock and see if any cache/treasure/hoard exists/ed and if it is still there.

Many times whilst poring over books, journals, archives or on my visits, I do sometimes wonder whether this is the "right" thing to do. Should I be making the most of my time with my family, should I be spending my money elsewhere, could I even be gaining another skills-set to give myself a better remuneration package, am I really into this as a hobby or something far more entrenched??

So much to decide on.

It can sometimes get bewildering and indecisive in knowing what to pursue and what to let go of. It is terribly disappointing when you've spent so long on a particular story and then find it was all a fantastical musing of some sharp, but naughty, person who put it into the public domain for their own amusement, or even some folk have just made a genuine mistake in relaying the 'facts' as they believed them. Through trial and error, get to the bottom of anything you want to investigate as quick as possible.

But one thing is for sure..., this profession has its claws into me and I want to uncover treasure, be rich and successful and make the very most of any and all opportunities that come my way.




IPUK

I understand IPUK....you are right...besides knowledge there should be some element of wisdom when we navigate in such TH waters...when to move when to take stop and take stock... when to strike when to retreat...whether to diversify or specialize , prioritizing family issues...budget issues etc...it is not easy...
Hope it goes well for you and all of us!
TT

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

IPUK, " Trial and error," is an evil teacher.
You get the test before the lesson.

As for knowing when to quit...

I will walk, until I can walk no more, and then I will fade into the darkness.

Happy hunting.

#/;0{>~

 

[tintin_treasure]

Check this amazing treasure find near the Danube river in south Germany...It was found in an ancient tomb.Speaking of Danube ,their was the legend of Atila the hun as well...but this one was a graveyard of a rich woman from antiquity..
Buried Treasure: Ancient Grave Found Brimming with Jewels
TT

 

[audigger53]

I remembered another "War story". I guy I knew back in '69 told me this story at a bar in Scotsdale, Arizona. He was robbed of a Silver Star. He was a Marine during the Korean war and he and his officer were in a foxhole together when a grenade was thrown into the foxhole. "Medal" was his first thought as he took his helmet off and jumped onto the grenade. After a bit his officer told him, "Tiny if it has not gone off by now it won't." They had the grenade checked out and found it was full of sand with a note in Polish that said, " Give them Hell, G.I."

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

Good story, AU.

It reminded me of a story that I heard as a kid. It was an older man that had one of the old cardboard grenades that the Germans had when they were short on metal, they looked much the same as the others, with the extended handle, and packed a pretty big explosion.

It happened during a family reunion.
Some of the kids got to digging thru his closet and found it. Not knowing what it was, one of them walked into the living room to ask about it, and as he asked he pulled the pin.

Fortunately he was in the room and grabbed it and ran outside to get rid of it, but there were people everywhere.

He was out of time and threw it behind the outhouse, but it went off before it hit the ground, and blew the roof off and the front wall went with it.

His grandfather was sitting on the seat with his pants around his calves and his pipe in one hand and his Zippo lighter in the other, and a puzzled look on his face.

Not knowing what had just happened, he said. " That's the last time I'll ever smoke my pipe in the cra••er again."

 

[Interested Party in UK]

IPUK, " Trial and error," is an evil teacher.
You get the test before the lesson.

As for knowing when to quit...

I will walk, until I can walk no more, and then I will fade into the darkness.

Happy hunting.

#/;0{>~

ProspectorMikel, Amen to that...



IPUK

 

[audigger53]

I'm a litte different outlook. I walk until I can walk no more, then sit down until I can go further on and do it again. Kind of stubborn.

 

[doc-d]

No retreat, no surrender......keep on going, overcome what obstacles come our way.....
Vaya con Dios mis amigos.

 

[audigger53]

No retreat, no surrender......keep on going, overcome what obstacles come our way.....
Vaya con Dios mis amigos.

I remember a friend telling me I was more stubborn than my brother. I was shocked as I knew my brother was stubborn, so I called him and asked, "Am I more stubborn than you are?" "Yes", he answered. Oh God, was my first thought. Sometimes others see us as we really are and not what we think we are. I do admit I have gotten into places by keeping going, that looking back I should not have done that. I think that I must have used up 10 or 15 Guardian Angels in my life. Or needed that many instead of the "normal" 1.