Mines, Mines, and More Mines.

[ECS]

Believe me, I'm not. Empty claims with nothing to back them up is all he ever posts.

While you post totally unrelated information as a possibility to turn fiction into fact.

 

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[ECS]

I have been were you are now, don't hold your breath Bro .

Where?

 

[Old Silver]

While you post totally unrelated information as a possibility to turn fiction into fact.

Until you understand what's being posted, I can't help you.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Believe me, I'm not. Empty claims with nothing to back them up is all he ever posts.

Yep, like BS said there is no proof that the Beale Papers aren't real . That is why I stand on the fact that The Beale Papers stand all by themselves .

 

[bigscoop]

Yep, like BS said there is no proof that the Beale Papers aren't real .

Wooo.....now where did you get this notion? Actually, there is a whole pile "of cold hard proof" that a great deal of the Beale paper narration isn't accurate/true.

True, the narration is real, but only because it exist.

 

[ECS]

Wooo.....now where did you get this notion? Actually, there is a whole pile "of cold hard proof" that a great deal of the Beale paper narration isn't accurate/true.

True, the narration is real, but only because it exist.

And that my friends, is an "authentic statement" by Bigscoop.

 

[ECS]

Until you understand what's being posted, I can't help you.

I understand that it has nothing to do with the Beale story, so you may help me to understand why you post all this unrelated information.
Is it to confirm that no outside information can be found to prove that anything in the Beale Papers story narrative ever happened?
Keep up the good work.

 

[Old Silver]

You seem to have a lot of trouble comprehending what people are saying. Where did I claim proof for the Beale story? Where? Can you SHOW it? What I have been able to prove is that it's possible. Why do you seem to have so much trouble understanding that? But I see you are still stating as fact the it was a dime novel, WITHOUT PROOF. You are guilty of what you falsely accuse me of. You claim to be ably to show this proof, but you never do. All you have is hearsay, or this person was kin to that person. You never SHOW anything significant. Man, do some actual research. Can you SHOW where the families claimed the Beale story to be fabricated? And can you SHOW that they proved a man calling himself Thomas Beale never existed? If you can show these things, can you PROVE that they were correct, or just had their own opinions, as most people do? Can you SHOW any of these things, ECS? SHOW me.

Still waiting on you, ECS.

 

[Old Silver]

I understand that it has nothing to do with the Beale story, so you may help me to understand why you post all this unrelated information.
Is it to confirm that no outside information can be found to prove that anything in the Beale Papers story narrative ever happened?
Keep up the good work.

Until you understand what's being posted, I can't help you.

 

[ECS]

Let's look at this "kin" thing and how it relates to the 1885 Beale Papers.
One family member was born and raised "four miles from Buford's Inn".
Another had business in Richmond "during the 2nd year of the Confederate War".
Another had a business in "St Louis".
Another was massacred by Indians while inspecting "gold and silver mines" out west.
Another had an "old and valued friend", who was mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers.

And, another fought a duel with a "Thomas Beale".
"a very limited circle...the writer's immediate family"
This "kin thing" runs throughout the 1885 Beale Papers.

And another married someone who was on a real documented expedition that encountered "friendly Indians".

 

[Old Silver]

And another married someone who was on a real documented expedition that encountered "friendly Indians".

Oh, so you finally found out that there were some friendly Indians then? That's progress.

 

[ECS]

I do find it interesting that you haven't disproved the family (kin, as you called it)connection to the adventures in the Beale narrative, or those involved in its creation, copyrighting, printing, and publishing.
And most important, what became of the handwritten "letters" and postmarked envelops that the entire Beale story is based, and the original handwritten ciphers?

You would think something that important would be kept in a secure place, or those letters also existed in the "unknown"
author(s)'s imagination and never existed in the first place.
Yes, I do understand why you post information that is not germane or relative to the Beale story.

 

[Old Silver]

I do find it interesting that you haven't disproved the family (kin, as you called it)connection to the adventures in the Beale narrative, or those involved in its creation, copyrighting, printing, and publishing.
And most important, what became of the handwritten "letters" and postmarked envelops that the entire Beale story is based, and the original handwritten ciphers?

You would think something that important would be kept in a secure place, or those letters also existed in the "unknown"
author(s)'s imagination and never existed in the first place.
Yes, I do understand why you post information that is not germane or relative to the Beale story.

It's not what I call it, it's YOUR baby. And why would I want to try to disprove something that has no bearing on the story? It's a non issue, otherwise you would have produced proof, and you certainly have not. I'm still waiting, by the way.

 

[ECS]

Well, by the same assessment employed by you- neither have you.
"So you see, you're just like, I hope your satisfied"- Bob Dylan
PS: I have provided plenty of proof for my conclusions on another thread.
"Until you understand what has been posted, I can't help you".

 

[Old Silver]

Well, by the same assessment employed by you- neither have you.
"So you see, you're just like, I hope your satisfied"- Bob Dylan

What have I claimed proof of?

 

[audigger53]

OK Pro and Con on parts of the story. Pro:If there was a fairly high lead content with the silver ore it could well have been refined as the silver was from Toyopa. The lead made it self fluxing and the was way before 1800.
Cons: Where to start. Human Nature. I'm one of the 31 men that mined all that money(!), gold and silver. Do you think I am going to just put it into the ground instead of spending it to buy land and a nice house and family? Come on, Human Nature. Next is the weight factor transporting all that weight to St. Louis. How about that large a group living through 2 years of winters in Colorado, much less the actual Rockies. The food supplies alone other than trying to hunt for meat and having the game disappear. Were they also trying to farm crops to survive? I don't think so. I believe that it was all a hoax to increase the newspaper sales and maybe, maybe a try for increasing Wards self worth. "See how smart I am to solve this cypher? Why have a cypher for the members of the group? People should have know who left on the trip and returned. My family, mother, father, brother,sister, wife, cousins, would have know if I was leaving for 3-4 years going hunting Buffalo. It just doesn't make good sense when you look at Human Nature. Someone would have talked. And I don't mean Beale. Also if they had that much money, why go back? There was enough for all of them.

 

[Old Silver]

OK Pro and Con on parts of the story. Pro:If there was a fairly high lead content with the silver ore it could well have been refined as the silver was from Toyopa. The lead made it self fluxing and the was way before 1800.
Cons: Where to start. Human Nature. I'm one of the 31 men that mined all that money(!), gold and silver. Do you think I am going to just put it into the ground instead of spending it to buy land and a nice house and family? Come on, Human Nature. Next is the weight factor transporting all that weight to St. Louis. How about that large a group living through 2 years of winters in Colorado, much less the actual Rockies. The food supplies alone other than trying to hunt for meat and having the game disappear. Were they also trying to farm crops to survive? I don't think so. I believe that it was all a hoax to increase the newspaper sales and maybe, maybe a try for increasing Wards self worth. "See how smart I am to solve this cypher? Why have a cypher for the members of the group? People should have know who left on the trip and returned. My family, mother, father, brother,sister, wife, cousins, would have know if I was leaving for 3-4 years going hunting Buffalo. It just doesn't make good sense when you look at Human Nature. Someone would have talked. And I don't mean Beale. Also if they had that much money, why go back? There was enough for all of them.

It's not exactly a secret that the Beale story might be a hoax. It could also be a true story, with the published papers as a cover story, as has been proposed. But A few of your reasons for the story being false I can't necessarily agree with.

1. I'm one of the 31 men that mined all that money(!), gold and silver. Do you think I am going to just put it into the ground instead of spending it to buy land and a nice house and family?
First of all, we don't know that they didn't keep out some of the money. Also, we don't know if any of them were married and had a family to buy a house for. And then, they were not finished mining, so they had to have a place to keep it all until they had, according to the story, "the sum secured for which we are striving." My thought is this. The treasure, IF real, could have been ore, which would be worth less that refined gold/silver, and so, could have been the reason for needing to go back. Remember, there was a 31 man split, not to mention expenses.

2. Next is the weight factor transporting all that weight to St. Louis.
If you do the simple math of 10 teams of work animals (just an example), you will find that each team would have had to pull a little less than 500 ponds. Maybe a little more to St. Louis on the first trip, until they traded some for jewels, but after that, it was less than 500 ponds, and then the 2nd load would have been just a little over 300 pounds each. That's about an average weight of two men, maybe 3 at most, on the heaviest trip. Not a huge chore for a team of work animals.

3. How about that large a group living through 2 years of winters in Colorado, much less the actual Rockies. The food supplies alone other than trying to hunt for meat and having the game disappear. Were they also trying to farm crops to survive? I don't think so.
Well, they were hunters. And being winter, they would have had a natural refrigerator. And it was a time when buffalo were aplenty. And if they had a mine, or cave, which does exist in that region, then I don't see any reason for these men not being able to survive.

None of what I said means that the Beale story is true, but I do think it's possible. I can think of other reasons for not believing the story, but I can't say for sure that it's false. I can't say it's true, either.

 

[ECS]

Let's look at this "kin" thing and how it relates to the 1885 Beale Papers.
One family member was born and raised "four miles from Buford's Inn".
Another had business in Richmond "during the 2nd year of the Confederate War".
Another had a business in "St Louis".
Another was massacred by Indians while inspecting "gold and silver mines" out west.
Another had an "old and valued friend", who was mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers.
Another married a man who led a documented expedition that hunted buffalo and met "friendly Indians
And, another fought a duel with a "Thomas Beale".
"a very limited circle...the writer's immediate family"
This "kin thing" runs throughout the 1885 Beale Papers.

Which brings us to the "unknown author".
"knowledge of this affair was confined to a very limited circle-the WRITER's IMMEDIATE FAMILY, and to one old and valued friend".
The author, who is presenting this portion of the Beale Papers in first person states that he is member of this family.
When telling the history of Robert Morriss and his encounter with the mysterious "Thomas Beale", the author resorts to telling the story in omniscience third person, then returns to first person after he receives the iron box with the ciphers, and is shown the "letters" (the Beal Papers) that are the basis of the adventure treasure story.
The only other person present in this section, is the person with whom Morriss was staying with- James Beverly Ward, his nephew.
Remember, the author has already stated that he is part of this family, and during the "2nd year of the Confederate War", had business in Richmond.
As deduced by researcher, Peter Viemeister, the author was Ward's first cousin, CSA Major F C Hutter, who had connections to St Louis, and to Confederate ciphers and codes.

 

[franklin]

Which brings us to the "unknown author".
"knowledge of this affair was confined to a very limited circle-the WRITER's IMMEDIATE FAMILY, and to one old and valued friend".
The author, who is presenting this portion of the Beale Papers in first person states that he is member of this family.
When telling the history of Robert Morriss and his encounter with the mysterious "Thomas Beale", the author resorts to telling the story in omniscience third person, then returns to first person after he receives the iron box with the ciphers, and is shown the "letters" (the Beal Papers) that are the basis of the adventure treasure story.
The only other person present in this section, is the person with whom Morriss was staying with- James Beverly Ward, his nephew.
Remember, the author has already stated that he is part of this family, and during the "2nd year of the Confederate War", had business in Richmond.
As deduced by researcher, Peter Viemeister, the author was Ward's first cousin, CSA Major F C Hutter, who had connections to St Louis, and to Confederate ciphers and codes.

You may be over looking a few people that could have been the author. There was Charles Button that owned the Virginia Building. He even owned it what time William Sherman was working there. And he had to buy it back from William Sherman or at least let him out of his lease on the building. Then there was Maurice Langhorne, Maurice Garland and Max Guggiheimer. All four of these men lived in the residence of Robert Morris' while Robert Morris was still living. I grant you your choice is the one that stands out the most as Peter Viemeister also thought he could very well be the author. PV went and talked to Rev. Jerry Falwell while he was still living and living in the home of Major FC Hutter.

David Saunders also could have been the author or his niece Rosalyn, David's wife. The story said they were invited into his room and his room was at their home. There is another possible and that is Capt. Otey a female that was over all the CSA Hospitals. She could have been needed in Richmond at that time in 1862.

 

[ECS]

John William Sherman's mother was Harriet Otey, daughter of John and Elizabeth Otey.