Mines, Mines, and More Mines.

[Old Silver]

Oh, a good 4 or 5, at least, exactly as it should be. This is how it works, at least in my mind, present a possible alternate solution to the mystery and then spend weeks, months, sometimes years weighing in all the contrary input and evidence and then investigating that input further. That's the great thing about these forums, and others, a lot of various knowledge here that one might not otherwise get exposed to, a lot of this knowledge helping to weed out what may have been possible from what may not have possible, and why, etc. Once an alternate solution has run aground it can then be discarded and scratched off the list, that list not being very darn long these days. The absolute worst thing someone can do is to cling to hope due to simple pride. Me, I have no problem swallowing those pills and even invite them, and then if need be, charting a new course, keeps me investigating and exploring new ground and new thoughts. One never knows, I might just pop another completely new theory on folks any day now, though I must admit, that new ground is getting mighty-mighty thin these days.

And those other theories, they were the only possible answer at the time, right? And now you claim certain things that's given, with evidence, are not possible.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Minelab PRO-FIND 35 Waterproof Pinpointer Metal Detector for Experts with Tone ID & Adjustable Sensitivity - Grab it through Amazon!

[bigscoop]

You know, some of you guys are really going to come after me for this, but I seriously doubt that anyone showed anybody a lump of gold while they were sharing a cell in a Spanish carcel. So I think this is just another treasure story.

The fountain of youth, the seven golden cities, these stories were also sells pitches in order to get the funding and blessing for the fantastical pursuit of wealth and fame. These were treasure tales that had supposedly been passed on from this person to this person, and of course, these tales having originated from some other unknown dude who had actually seen it all at some point in time. So here we have two dudes sitting in a Spanish jail with lumps of gold as their personal entertainment. Or, was this just something that was talked about and later used by Pike to further leverage his own personal pursuits? Think not? Well, history is full of this sort of thing.

 

[bigscoop]

And those other theories, they were the only possible answer at the time, right? And now you claim certain things that's given, with evidence, are not possible.

I'm saying, and have for quite some time, that the accumulated claims presented in the Beale adventure create an impossible scenario for the region and period in question. And thus far, not a single person has stepped forward with contrary credible evidence in dispute.

 

[Old Silver]

You know, some of you guys are really going to come after me for this, but I seriously doubt that anyone showed anybody a lump of gold while they were sharing a cell in a Spanish carcel. So I think this is just another treasure story.

The fountain of youth, the seven golden cities, these stories were also sells pitches in order to get the funding and blessing for the fantastical pursuit of wealth and fame. These were treasure tales that had supposedly been passed on from this person to this person, and of course, these tales having originated from some other unknown dude who had actually seen it all at some point in time. So here we have two dudes sitting in a Spanish jail with lumps of gold as their personal entertainment. Or, was this just something that was talked about and later used by Pike to further leverage his own personal pursuits? Think not? Well, history is full of this sort of thing.

What else WOULD you say. What else COULD you say. And this sort of thing is what makes it difficult to put stock in your claims. You deny evidence just because it's not what you want to believe.

 

[Old Silver]

I'm saying, and have for quite some time, that the accumulated claims presented in the Beale adventure create an impossible scenario for the region and period in question. And thus far, not a single person has stepped forward with contrary credible evidence in dispute.

Maybe impossible for your preconceived notions of how it was supposed to have happened, but what if things were not exactly like that? You don't want to consider that, right? And you speak of considering new things.

 

[bigscoop]

Maybe impossible for your preconceived notions of how it was supposed to have happened, but what if things were not exactly like that? You don't want to consider that, right? And you speak of considering new things.

It's not my preconceived notion at all, it's all written in the alleged letters, and what is written, as a whole, just wasn't possible in the given region during the period described. Again...............................................................................................the thousands of pounds of SILVER is just one of these impossible issues. "Put away those post era newspapers" and seriously dive into the science and the actual documented "early" silver mining history of the region in question. It's all right there in plain black and white.

 

[bigscoop]

Bedtime! Us old farts must get our beauty sleep, you know.

 

[Old Silver]

It's not my preconceived notion at all, it's all written in the alleged letters, and what is written, as a whole, just wasn't possible in the given region during the period described. Again...............................................................................................the thousands of pounds of SILVER is just one of these impossible issues. "Put away those post era newspapers" and seriously dive into the science and the actual documented "early" silver mining history of the region in question. It's all right there in plain black and white.

I'll stick with the evidence, but thanks.

 

[Old Silver]

Bedtime! Us old farts must get our beauty sleep, you know.

Too late for me on the beauty.

 

[ECS]

What did Pursley show Pike? It wasn't marbles.

It was one nugget and a story.

 

[ECS]

All you have have shown is people who didn't believe in the TREASURE story. And you're not even sure about that. Nothing was said about a man by the name of Beale.

The families of Witcher, Clay, and Coles objected to the use of their ancestors' name in the fictional dime novel job pamphlet, THE BEALE PAPERS. Notice the name "BEALE" in the title?
After their objections, unsold copies were withdrawn for sale and destroyed and NO future editions were ever published by Ward.
Was this action done to avoid legal action by the families of Withcher, Clay, and Coles ?

 

[Old Silver]

It was one nugget and a story.

Was it a copper nugget?

 

[Old Silver]

The families of Witcher, Clay, and Coles objected to the use of their ancestors' name in the fictional dime novel job pamphlet, THE BEALE PAPERS. Notice the name "BEALE" in the title?
After their objections, unsold copies were withdrawn for sale and destroyed and NO future editions were ever published by Ward.
Was this action done to avoid legal action by the families of Withcher, Clay, and Coles ?

The fact that you have to ask this question is the point of most of my posts. We simply don't know the truth of the Beale story, and until we do, we shouldn't pretend to know.

Even If those families did object to the use of their ancestor's names in the "fictional dime novel job pamphlet," that doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a character by the name of Thomas Beale.

 

[Old Silver]

It's not my preconceived notion at all, it's all written in the alleged letters, and what is written, as a whole, just wasn't possible in the given region during the period described. Again...............................................................................................the thousands of pounds of SILVER is just one of these impossible issues. "Put away those post era newspapers" and seriously dive into the science and the actual documented "early" silver mining history of the region in question. It's all right there in plain black and white.

You tell me to put away newspaper articles which reported the actual news, yet you post a wiki article to support your claims. Is that one of the "actual documents" you speak of?

 

[ECS]

The fact that you have to ask this question is the point of most of my posts. We simply don't know the truth of the Beale story, and until we do, we shouldn't pretend to know.

Even If those families did object to the use of their ancestor's names in the "fictional dime novel job pamphlet," that doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a character by the name of Thomas Beale.

With all the lawyers in James Beverly Ward's family, he was well aware that as agent and publisher for the author, if these the families of Witcher, Coles, and Clay took this issue to court, he would be liable for damages.
Ward's only defense against culpability would be to name the "unknown" author who would be then called to produce the handwritten TJB letters and postmarked envelops on which the entire story of the Beale Papers was based to prove tat the narrative was true and not a work of fiction, and then produce the iron box with the handwritten ciphers.
This legal mater was never taken to court, but Ward did destroy all the remaining unsold copies, and never produced a second printing, which could have omitted the names of Witcher, Coles, and Clay. Ward let the matter be.
Now if the names of Witcher, Coles, and Clay were used as fictitious characters in a novel, then the other names, Thomas Beale, Robert Morriss, and Max Guggenheimer, were also used as fictitious characters.
Max Guggenheimer, who was a friend of both Ward and the printer, Sherman, and the only living person mentioned in the job pamphlet, was not concerned with the use of his name, but, then again, he sold copies of the Beale Papers at his store.

 

[franklin]

With all the lawyers in James Beverly Ward's family, he was well aware that as agent and publisher for the author, if these the families of Witcher, Coles, and Clay took this issue to court, he would be liable for damages.
Ward's only defense against culpability would be to name the "unknown" author who would be then called to produce the handwritten TJB letters and postmarked envelops on which the entire story of the Beale Papers was based to prove tat the narrative was true and not a work of fiction, and then produce the iron box with the handwritten ciphers.
This legal mater was never taken to court, but Ward did destroy all the remaining unsold copies, and never produced a second printing, which could have omitted the names of Witcher, Coles, and Clay. Ward let the matter be.
Now if the names of Witcher, Coles, and Clay were used as fictitious characters in a novel, then the other names, Thomas Beale, Robert Morriss, and Max Guggenheimer, were also used as fictitious characters.
Max Guggenheimer, who was a friend of both Ward and the printer, Sherman, and the only living person mentioned in the job pamphlet, was not concerned with the use of his name, but, then again, he sold copies of the Beale Papers at his store.

Where is the proof that Witcher, Coles and Clay Families say that it is a dime novel and they are going to sue James Beverly Ward? Also James Beverly Ward did not destroy the printed pamphlets they were destroyed in a fire that killed several firemen and tens of thousands of dollars in property damage.

 

[ECS]

It was never taken to court , but former CSA Lt Col Vincent A Witcher, on the behalf of the other families contacted Ward and Guggenheimer, with whom he served during the CAUSE, to withdraw this publication with his and others forebears names were mentioned to create a credibility of the story.
Yes, there were two fires in Lynchburg, one before the publication, and one after.
The point made here, whatever the cause, Ward never published additional copies after the first and only run, was burned.

 

[ECS]

I'll stick with the evidence, but thanks.

So far all the "evidence" you have provided to this discussion, is unrelated to the Beale Papers story, anecdotical, or anachronistic, none having any relevance to the Beale narrative as written in the 1885 Beale Papers.
There is no evidence that can support the tale told in the alleged Beale letters to Morriss that the entire story is based upon.
Furthermore, there is no evidence that these "letters" ever existed outside of the job pamphlet.

 

[Old Silver]

With all the lawyers in James Beverly Ward's family, he was well aware that as agent and publisher for the author, if these the families of Witcher, Coles, and Clay took this issue to court, he would be liable for damages.
Ward's only defense against culpability would be to name the "unknown" author who would be then called to produce the handwritten TJB letters and postmarked envelops on which the entire story of the Beale Papers was based to prove tat the narrative was true and not a work of fiction, and then produce the iron box with the handwritten ciphers.
This legal mater was never taken to court, but Ward did destroy all the remaining unsold copies, and never produced a second printing, which could have omitted the names of Witcher, Coles, and Clay. Ward let the matter be.
Now if the names of Witcher, Coles, and Clay were used as fictitious characters in a novel, then the other names, Thomas Beale, Robert Morriss, and Max Guggenheimer, were also used as fictitious characters.
Max Guggenheimer, who was a friend of both Ward and the printer, Sherman, and the only living person mentioned in the job pamphlet, was not concerned with the use of his name, but, then again, he sold copies of the Beale Papers at his store.

So for all you've produced are speculations. What if's doesn't prove the theory that you so desperately want to believe.

 

[Old Silver]

So far all the "evidence" you have provided to this discussion, is unrelated to the Beale Papers story, anecdotical, or anachronistic, none having any relevance to the Beale narrative as written in the 1885 Beale Papers.
There is no evidence that can support the tale told in the alleged Beale letters to Morriss that the entire story is based upon.
Furthermore, there is no evidence that these "letters" ever existed outside of the job pamphlet.

What have you proved? All you do is make claims that this happened because this one was kin to that one, and these other people did this, etc., etc. What do you have to SHOW of your claims?

I have not claimed to have proof of the Beale treasure, and you know that. I HAVE shown proof that the impossibility claim is wrong. I'm sorry if you can't see that.