.....also,
Here is the page of the book, please read the underlined section (sorry, and the rest of the paragraph before it):
View attachment 1133549
That means that the pictures of the document in the book are being sold to us as "OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPTS OF THE ISTG".
Here is the first page of the "officially" transcribed Olbers Manifest:
View attachment 1133550
So, I scanned all the copies of this "OFFICIALLY TRANSCRIBED DOCUMENT" and emailed them to the ISTG asking what records they had of both the document and the Olbers Manifest of that date. I posted what the reply was.
The reason everything fell on Kraig's Shoulders was because he already had the military service issue. You say it has no place in this discussion, but you could not be more wrong. Just as in a courtroom, a persons actions in a matter not relating to the case at hand are admissible when they are presented to show a previous track record.
I like Kraig very much, and like I stated previously, learning that the document came from him disturbed me greatly.
Mike
Mike,
"In your zeal to defend Kraig (which I respect, because there are few people more knowledgeable on the subject as he), you missed what I wrote:"
You would see it again if I thought that you were being treated unfairly.
1. From the ISTG Website, this is a list of the available records of the Ship Olbers:
Where is the 1838/9 Voyage on that list? The one that you said never happened? The transcribed manuscript from that voyage is obviously available online. Actually this is not important.
How could someone have gotten a transcribed copy of a manifest that the ISTG DIDN'T HAVE A RECORD OF?
"Someone" never did. That voyage to New Orleans never happened, which was your suspicion. Paul was able to create enough doubt to prove the document's content bogus. Local papers from the time confirm that the ship Olbers was somewhere in the Atlantic, running for Breman on November 17th. So, in actuality, there never was an "original" manifest to copy.
In reality, there were several transcriptions of manifests. The authour of that information had access to these including those Paul found and one from the ship Olbers. Thats a red flag and something for us to think about. For some reason, the author pulled, mixed and recreated a list from these manifests (hopefully transcriptions of manifests). The document that is in Mrs. Corbin's book was not created in PhotoShop. It was probably created in Word Perfect and printed on some type of craft or resume paper. Fonts are something like finger prints. The early ones anyway.
The bogus list displays none of the fonts used by the ITSG program. It also has no ISTG logo or watermark. And you have proven that without question they are "not ISTG documents". You and everyone else picking up Mrs. Corbin's book believe that the document itself was suppose to have come from the ISTG, beccause of the caption, and because of what was written by the author in the body of the book.
I think that Mrs. Corbin probably belived that the information in that document came from the ISTG.
What needs to be asked is if the publisher took that bogus information and recreated a manifest looking document for the book. Its done all the time and there is nothing wrong with it as long as a foot note is added, explaining the image. Was this done? I don't own the book and can not say with any certainty. I suspect that it was not.
Which, for Mrs. Corbin, turned out to be an unfortunate mistake.
It doesn't make any difference what the Olbers may or may not have done or been able to do.
It actually does. News reports of her travels are 100% PROOF of the deception that you were looking for.
A lie can be proven.
The ONLY thing that matters in this discussion is whether or not the ISTG had a record available to transcribe (WHICH THEY DID NOT as I showed you in my previous post).
Exactly.
So, (again) if the ISTG did not have any record of the Olbers landing in New Orleans in 1839, then HOW ON EARTH did someone get a transcribed copy of that manifest from the ISTG to put in Helen Corbin's Book?
We know that a bogus list came to Mrs. Corbin by way of Mr. Roberts. Mr. Roberts has written an explanation of how it came to him. It reads sincere, IMO. If you have a need to know more, there are leeds in that explaination to follow. But even when you find what your looking for it comes down to the publisher. That is where you should look for answers. If you need them.
The reason everything fell on Kraig's Shoulders was because he already had the military service issue. You say it has no place in this discussion, but you could not be more wrong.
I dont know anything about that but it sounds like something personal. Mike, if someone you liked tripped and fell on the trail, would you leave them there or would you give him a hand up?
Just as in a courtroom, a persons actions in a matter not relating to the case at hand are admissible when they are presented to show a previous track record.
Mike, that is simply not accurate.
I like Kraig very much, and like I stated previously, learning that the document came from him disturbed me greatly.
I cant say that I like the man because I have never met him or spoken with him.
I certainly have not read any reason to dislike him.
