Maps

[cactusjumper]

If it's the red one you're talking about, Markmar added that himself from the one Hal first posted - it's not on Hal's

Paul,

That's interesting, because directly over Willow Spring on the east side of West Boulder it's straight up. You have to go south in the canyon to the first bend to find a wash that cuts into the side of the ridge. I know you have all heard the story before, but my brother, dog and myself came directly down into Willow Spring from the top of the ridge....In the dark. It was a bit of an adventure, for sure.

On top we found two large monuments which have since been destroyed.

Must be the 100th time I have told that story.

Take care,

Joe

 

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[azdave35]

I believe the two possible routes that followed Ruth are these with red colour . He tried to follow the route which Waltz had said and to match the Perfil map or Waltz drawing in the field .

View attachment 1164956

if your saying ruth went over the top of those crags and peaks on the map....i guarantee a cripple old man like ruth didnt do that.....matter of fact i dont think a mountain goat could make it over them..they are almost vertical

 

[cactusjumper]

if your saying ruth went over the top of those crags and peaks on the map....i guarantee a cripple old man like ruth didnt do that.....matter of fact i dont think a mountain goat could make it over them..they are almost vertical

Dave,

If you are talking about straight east out of Willow Spring, There is no way Ruth made it to the top of the ridge. On the other hand, as I said, you can go south to the first bend in the canyon, and then go east up the wash to the top of the ridge.

At one time, you could ride a horse to the top. I still believe that is how Ruth was taken into Willow Spring. I have been told there is a sealed mine up there.....a little farther south.

Take care,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

If you are talking about straight east out of Willow Spring, There is no way Ruth made it to the top of the ridge. On the other hand, as I said, you can go south to the first bend in the canyon, and then go east up the wash to the top of the ridge.

At one time, you could ride a horse to the top. I still believe that is how Ruth was taken into Willow Spring. I have been told there is a sealed mine up there.....a little farther south.

Take care,

Joe

joe...is that sealed up mine a tunnel or a shaft?.......do you have an approximate location on it?

 

[cactusjumper]

joe...is that sealed up mine a tunnel or a shaft?.......do you have an approximate location on it?

Dave,

One of our guys found it, and told me about it on the radio. It was 2004, my last trip into the range. It was our last day in the Supe's. We have gone our separate ways now, but he is my brother-in laws brother in law. I know about where it is, and have a picture of where you need to start up out of West Boulder. It would be just south of Willow Spring and the Saddle on the ridge. If you have my map it's very close to the X just above West Boulder.

Believe it was a tunnel.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Paul,

That's interesting, because directly over Willow Spring on the east side of West Boulder it's straight up. You have to go south in the canyon to the first bend to find a wash that cuts into the side of the ridge. I know you have all heard the story before, but my brother, dog and myself came directly down into Willow Spring from the top of the ridge....In the dark. It was a bit of an adventure, for sure.

On top we found two large monuments which have since been destroyed.

Must be the 100th time I have told that story.

Take care,

Joe

Joe

My dash line was approximative , but those who know the place , understand how could be only the pass which you just explained .
And apropos , in the big stone trail which starts from Hieroglyphic Canyon , the first X on the map is the tunnel/mine on the top and little south of this pass ( like in your reference ) .

 

[Hal Croves]

markmar,

I know that you have posted the Peralta-Gonzalas map several time in the past. I find it fascinating. If you can, read that article because there is a locator map that belongs with it. Perhaps you already have it but if not, let me know.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal. it depends upon it's usage and correct spelling. weed, weeding, hoe, or reaming.

S. cima refers to the south peak while the other refers to weather. The first sounds more correct in reference to a map.


Can you post a portion of the map with the wording ?

Thank you so much. Now I am confused for sure. Here are the maps in question. Please let me know what you think after seeing the word in context. Weed,weeding,hoe,reaming? I am missing something.

These are from the same article, provided by G. Davis.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hal, Cima / Peak appears more correct As to the other I rather suspect that it has a shape, or impression of a hoe.

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Hal,

If you allow me to butt in, I will try to clear some things for you. I don't really know which maps were found on Ruth, but if those two were found on him, only the "Perfil" map is real. The reverse map was made by a Gringo, or Ruth himself. It never fails, people have to mess with treasure maps whether paper or stone. Disregard the reverse map, it was just some Gringos brainstorm, it is impossible to see the same "perfil" in reverse.

"Perfil" is an outline, or silhouette. In the maps case, it is what could be seen from the South from some point. That point seems to be next to a high peak due East of Weaver's Needle. "Cima" means summit, or the highest point, and Weaver's Needle was called "El Sombrero". "Sierra mas alta en medio" means the highest mountain range in the center. That can only be Four Peaks Mountain visible above the "Hoyo" or hole, or pit. Just below the pit, you have the "escardadia". "Escardar" means to separate, or weed. In this case they were separating the gold from the rock, so "escardadia" can only be the tailings.

Who ever made the reverse map changed "cima" to "clima" or climate , and you know you can't see that same outline from the North, with Four Peaks behind the pit. So forget that reverse map, just like you can forget about the symbols that Robert Tumlinson made up on the Tesora Mappa.

Homar

 

[sgtfda]

 

[markmar]

markmar,

I know that you have posted the Peralta-Gonzalas map several time in the past. I find it fascinating. If you can, read that article because there is a locator map that belongs with it. Perhaps you already have it but if not, let me know.

Hal

Can you link that article ? Because are many .

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal

Can you link that article ? Because are many .

Access to the article requires a free Jstor account.
I am on thin ice as it is posting the maps otherwise, I would have posted the article in its entirety.
Let me know if you are successful.

 

[Hal Croves]

Howdy Hal,

If you allow me to butt in, I will try to clear some things for you. I don't really know which maps were found on Ruth, but if those two were found on him, only the "Perfil" map is real. The reverse map was made by a Gringo, or Ruth himself. It never fails, people have to mess with treasure maps whether paper or stone. Disregard the reverse map, it was just some Gringos brainstorm, it is impossible to see the same "perfil" in reverse.

"Perfil" is an outline, or silhouette. In the maps case, it is what could be seen from the South from some point. That point seems to be next to a high peak due East of Weaver's Needle. "Cima" means summit, or the highest point, and Weaver's Needle was called "El Sombrero". "Sierra mas alta en medio" means the highest mountain range in the center. That can only be Four Peaks Mountain visible above the "Hoyo" or hole, or pit. Just below the pit, you have the "escardadia". "Escardar" means to separate, or weed. In this case they were separating the gold from the rock, so "escardadia" can only be the tailings.

Who ever made the reverse map changed "cima" to "clima" or climate , and you know you can't see that same outline from the North, with Four Peaks behind the pit. So forget that reverse map, just like you can forget about the symbols that Robert Tumlinson made up on the Tesora Mappa.

Homar

Allow you to butt in? I have been waiting for you to butt in.
I spent an hour trying to find a reference to weeding day in Mexican culture thinking that it had something to do with time. Ug.

Your interpretation is the best I've read. Thank you for that!

 

[markmar]

Access to the article requires a free Jstor account.
I am on thin ice as it is posting the maps otherwise, I would have posted the article in its entirety.
Let me know if you are successful.

I have a Jstor account but I don't know the name of the article .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo corezone, Homar I couldn't figure a gardening tech in with mining. Your explanation fits far better. The weeding out of the Gold, the tailings. I am still puzzeled by the shape. Gracias.

 

[markmar]

Howdy Hal,

If you allow me to butt in, I will try to clear some things for you. I don't really know which maps were found on Ruth, but if those two were found on him, only the "Perfil" map is real. The reverse map was made by a Gringo, or Ruth himself. It never fails, people have to mess with treasure maps whether paper or stone. Disregard the reverse map, it was just some Gringos brainstorm, it is impossible to see the same "perfil" in reverse.

"Perfil" is an outline, or silhouette. In the maps case, it is what could be seen from the South from some point. That point seems to be next to a high peak due East of Weaver's Needle. "Cima" means summit, or the highest point, and Weaver's Needle was called "El Sombrero". "Sierra mas alta en medio" means the highest mountain range in the center. That can only be Four Peaks Mountain visible above the "Hoyo" or hole, or pit. Just below the pit, you have the "escardadia". "Escardar" means to separate, or weed. In this case they were separating the gold from the rock, so "escardadia" can only be the tailings.

Who ever made the reverse map changed "cima" to "clima" or climate , and you know you can't see that same outline from the North, with Four Peaks behind the pit. So forget that reverse map, just like you can forget about the symbols that Robert Tumlinson made up on the Tesora Mappa.

Homar

Homar

I agree with the word " escardadia " , but with the other ... I have another opinion .

You wrote how the Perfil map is a view from south . Then , how you explain the direction of the arrow which shows contrary with what is written below " E to W to W to S " ? This " tells " us how the map should be reversed . And the meaning of the arrow is and change to : " 1500 paces from this point from W to E to E to N , you will see this image " .

Now about the word " S.Cima " . I believe how has a double meaning in the map .
The first meaning is geographically and now is the first peak to the north in our image /map .
And the second " tells " us where is the " hoyo " using the word ( changing the place of the latter "S" to the other side of the word because now is not south ) to complete a phrase which is in the map . The phrase is " Sierra mas alta in medio de .. " . " de " what ? Of course " de cimas " .
So , the high mountain with the face and the shaft is between ( not necessary into a straight line ) and in the middle of the two peaks in the image /map .

 

[cactusjumper]

All,

Remembering that Waltz was getting much older, hadn't been into the mountains in years and was ill, could this be what he was trying to draw for Julia and Rhiney?



Or this same view?

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/cactus_jumper/Expedition 2004 245_zpsqdvdnps6.jpg

Just to the left of the saddle (North) is where my brother and I found the two fantastic monuments.

Could be.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[coazon de oro]

Allo corezone, Homar I couldn't figure a gardening tech in with mining. Your explanation fits far better. The weeding out of the Gold, the tailings. I am still puzzeled by the shape. Gracias.

Compadre, "escardadia" is not referring to the shape of that rock. That rock is part of what can be seen, the tailings are on the south side of that rock below the pit. Since a line is drawn under that rock, the rock may be further North from the pit hill.

Homar

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar

I agree with the word " escardadia " , but with the other ... I have another opinion .

You wrote how the Perfil map is a view from south . Then , how you explain the direction of the arrow which shows contrary with what is written below " E to W to W to S " ? This " tells " us how the map should be reversed . And the meaning of the arrow is and change to : " 1500 paces from this point from W to E to E to N , you will see this image " .

Now about the word " S.Cima " . I believe how has a double meaning in the map .
The first meaning is geographically and now is the first peak to the north in our image /map .
And the second " tells " us where is the " hoyo " using the word ( changing the place of the latter "S" to the other side of the word because now is not south ) to complete a phrase which is in the map . The phrase is " Sierra mas alta in medio de .. " . " de " what ? Of course " de cimas " .
So , the high mountain with the face and the shaft is between ( not necessary into a straight line ) and in the middle of the two peaks in the image /map .

Howdy Marius,

I don't know if that map was a copy of the original, or the original map, but that note with the arrow seems to have been added on since it's written in English. It is not needed for the use of the map. Finding that view on the ground, will show you which hill the pit is on.

The "sierra mas alta en medio" is not in the very center, but it is between the "sombrero", and "s. cima", and identifies it.

Homar