MAN LOST IN SUPERSTITIONS

[RangeroftheNorth]

I spent some time in the mountains this previous weekend with some friends looking for clues as to the missing mans whereabouts.

Some personal observations on the search.

1) Based on what we found , tracks , etc he was headed NW from the Kane Spring area to the area he seemed to be interested in.

2) The storm that hit the area Dec 21/22 was one of mammoth proportions. Huge cottonwoods and junipers were upended. A large cottonwood fell not 10 yards from his camp site (yes we checked under it) and various trees fell across the Peters Trail between Indian Springs Canyon and Peters Saddle. It is telling about the action of the early search groups that they made there way to Jesses camp by foot (trees were moved out of the way off the trail) but they did not search further westward on the trail as huge trees were down on the hill west of there and we are fairly certain that we were the first people through there.

3) Based on observation of the Maricopa Sherriff SAR the search was concentrated on one particular canyon. The helicopter spent quite a bit of time searching the various peaks and ridgeline on both sides of this canyon.

4) We observed what we took to be the hikers family members at the bottom of this canyon (I beleive there were 3-4 of them all wearing yellow shirts) obviously milling around and checking out an area of some water tanks very thoroughly. It is obvious that both the family members and the SAR were concentrating on this particular area in their search.

My thoughts are that he likely went missing sometime before the big Winter Solstice storm. He could have been injured or lost almost as soon as he arrived, making it 2 weeks before SAR even knew that he was missing. There was no water in the mountains until a smaller storm blew in before the Solstice tempest, which would have meant that he would have to lug water with him. If he did not go missing until the mid-December time frame then he might have found water sources throughout that area. If he went missing in the area where SAR spent a good deal of time going in and out of the tributary canyons then I fear he may never be found. That area is horribly rough and remote, and not many folks go there. Good place to take a fall.

I will update this site if I get any news.
Best

Ranger

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[RangeroftheNorth]

One more observation:

Helicopters certainly did touch down and let off searchers, at least in the early part of the search. These fellows had dogs with them and their tracks followed the older tracks that we believed were the hikers towards the area where his possible family members and Maricopa Cty SAR were observed. From what Jesse had marked on his personal maps as interesting areas, this was the area that was searched the most. While he could be anywhere, it makes sense to concentrate on A) his probable line of march and B) the areas he was interested in searching for "treasure".

Regards

Ranger

 

[djui5]

Ranger,

There is really no telling where Jessie went, but this is the first area I would want to search......short of tracks or evidence that he is elsewhere:
Joe Ribaudo

Joe,
Can you please remove this map. It has incorrect info and I don't want anyone going out there thinking they know where things are when they are being improperly directed. Thanks.

 

[djui5]

Or if you could remove his camp site from the map, that would work too.

 

[djui5]

So, why didn't you just say his camp was in the wrong place. Where should it be? This is like pulling teeth.......

It is what it is Joe. I shoulda just said that in the first place, you are right. I'm not at liberty to state exactly where his camp was though. This is some seriously nasty terrain and I'd rather the info on where his camp was not be made public. We have one guy missing already, we don't need more because people who don't know the area want to help out. I hope I'm not coming off like a prick but that is the way it has to be. I'm sure you understand. I don't know if you've ever hiked this side of the mountains but believe me when I say West Boulder is nothing compared to this area.

I'm just looking out for the best interests of everyone involved, that is all.

 

[djui5]

I know I'm a has been, no need to rub it in. You da man!

Take care,

Joe

Don't take everything so damn personal Joe. This isn't a pissing contest. I'm the new guy, you know that dammit.

His camp wasn't AT Kane Spring.

 

[Cubfan64]

Yah, I had heard his camp wasn't at Kane Springs either and that the SAR groups were not giving out that specific information for their own reasons.

 

[Springfield]

Yah, I had heard his camp wasn't at Kane Springs either and that the SAR groups were not giving out that specific information for their own reasons.

The SAR teams deal with reality as they encounter it in the field. It is quite common for the subject's actual location, travel route, etc. to differ considerably from what family and friends assumed or were told. Information concerning the status of any particular search is released to the public only when necessary. The subject's family will be in the loop as much as possible.

 

[Cubfan64]

Yah, I had heard his camp wasn't at Kane Springs either and that the SAR groups were not giving out that specific information for their own reasons.

The SAR teams deal with reality as they encounter it in the field. It is quite common for the subject's actual location, travel route, etc. to differ considerably from what family and friends assumed or were told. Information concerning the status of any particular search is released to the public only when necessary. The subject's family will be in the loop as much as possible.

yup Springfield - that's exactly my understanding of any kind of search and/or rescue operation. It's pretty much a "need to know" situation and the vast majority of us here don't really "need to know" unless we've been in touch with the SAR as I think a very few folks from different forums have been.

Those people who've been in direct contact have obviously been asked to keep specific information private which I believe they've done and are continuing to do - it's really not anyone's place at this point to ask why despite well intended desires to help find Jesse.

Those are just my opinions.

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
Keeping information *priviledged* or *confidental* when a persons' life is at stake is akin to playing God in the extreme sense of the word, in my very humble opinion. I know if it were ME who were lost out in the boonies then I'd want EVERYBODY in the entire WORLD to know EVERYTHING there possibly is to know about me in order to help someone, ANYONE, find ME!

Certainly, I understand that there are SAR teams who consider themselves to be professionals, and yet while these well-intentioned sorts are running around playing 007 and Daniel Boone, Jesse's meter IS running.

I also find it strange that these same well-intentioned people seem to be attempting to track the lost persons' movements. Considering the time which has elapsed and the fact there have been no good leads turned up as yet and coupled with the recent storm activity, I would say that the odds of actually being able to track someone's movements are pretty close to nil at this point and I would instead concentrate on my efforts on trying to locate the person and in order to do this, every pair of eyes that I could put onto the scene improves our chances of finding the person.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[ghostdog]

Lamar my friend I agree. Pull out every stop, explore every option. No reason anyone should disappear in this ultra modern high tech age in those ancient Mts,without being found. Check with every Claim holder and get the state to bring in "military trained" search and rescue teams.

 

[lamar]

Dear ghostdog;
I guess that I am just confused, my friend. First, who determined that the SAR teams were *professionals* in the first place? What gives them the sole right to determine the information which should be witheld from the public? In other words, I would be doing the Internet version of posting Jesse's information and vital stats on the sides of the virtual *milk cartons* as it were, just like used to be done in the cases of missing children.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Oroblanco]

My apologies for posting, just wanted to add a statement which may help explain something.

Lamar wrote

First, who determined that the SAR teams were *professionals* in the first place?

I cannot speak for the SAR teams involved in this search, but some SAR teams are specially trained in search and rescue operations, including classes in tracking, spotting, communications, first aid, map reading and navigation, even mountaineering, rock climbing etc which puts them in a different 'class' than most folks. I can't say why information may be withheld, but expect that all info will be made public at some point. The obvious reason is in order to keep well-intentioned volunteers <not coordinated with the authorities official search efforts> from inadvertently trampling on tracks made by the person being sought, accidental moving of something which may have been an important clue (like picking up a piece of litter) or possible errors from simply spotting each other from a distance and thinking it to be the missing person. There is also the danger of an un-trained or inexperienced person becoming lost themselves, and compounding the problems.

As for making use of all available technologies, how would we know they are not already?

Again, sorry for "butting in" here, my friends please know that we are all frustrated with our inability to find this man and reunite the family.
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

http://www.mountainrescue.org

http://www.mra.org

These two are involved in the search, so far.

 

[ghostdog]

Specially trained military search teams will have the newest technologys available to them includeing those from Space. Why not bring them in.

 

[djui5]

No reason anyone should disappear in this ultra modern high tech age in those ancient Mts,without being found.

Technology can only do so much. The only way this guy is going to be found is if someone finds him while on the ground. The low level chopper searches have been done. Sat photos are worthless. The terrain is way too rough for a sat photo to find someone out there. Heat signature (Infared) might work but again, you'd have to have a clean line of sight on the person which means you'd have to almost know where he is.

Speaking of high tech, just because we have technology does NOT mean you can't get lost either. If you are in a strange area where you do not know the landmarks then you could get lost quite easily. Imagine you go to another state to hunt treasure. You think smart and bring all your neat electronics/gadgets with you. A metal detector, a camera, a cell phone, a GPS, maybe even a laptop. Now imagine you are sitting in camp, or hiking back to your camp from a days search and it starts pouring rain like you've never seen. Or on the way back to camp you break an ankle, sprain an ankle, pop a knee out of place, etc. Ok, sure, now you are stuck.

In the rain you made a mad dash for your camp. On the way to camp you take a wrong turn somewhere. It's dark, the sun is beginning to set and the rain/clouds make it impossible to see. After about half an hour it dawns on you that you're lost. Your GPS does no good because of the rain, so you get no sat reception. You might have a compass but what good is that if you don't know which direction you need to go in? It's really cold outside and you start to shivver, so you find a nice cave/undercut to camp for the night hoping the next morning you can find your way. Thankfully you've remembered your magnesium fire starter and can find enough brush/small tree limbs to get a fire started. You rest the night there and wake up the next day hungry and still wet. Crawling out of your sleeping spot you turn on your GPS. Ahh...either the batteries are dead or it won't turn on because of water damage. No cell phone because the batteries are dead. The laptop is in your camp, which you have no idea where camp is. Ok, what do you do now?? I'd be willing to bet 90% of this countries population has no answer for that question, no proper answer anyway.

This same scenario could play out if you had to crawl off the trail because of an injury. Make sense?

 

[ghostdog]

Makes sense ,yes,however the military has had technologys for years now that can read license plates on cars, and they do have long range tech scanners that can tell the differance between a human or animal.
Foul play is also a unpleasant possibility , but it would not be the 1st time in the Supers. The Park Service should make it mandatory for anyone going into these mt ranges to carry a location signal device.

 

[Springfield]

Dear group;
Keeping information *priviledged* or *confidental* when a persons' life is at stake is akin to playing God in the extreme sense of the word, in my very humble opinion. I know if it were ME who were lost out in the boonies then I'd want EVERYBODY in the entire WORLD to know EVERYTHING there possibly is to know about me in order to help someone, ANYONE, find ME!

Certainly, I understand that there are SAR teams who consider themselves to be professionals, and yet while these well-intentioned sorts are running around playing 007 and Daniel Boone, Jesse's meter IS running.

I also find it strange that these same well-intentioned people seem to be attempting to track the lost persons' movements. Considering the time which has elapsed and the fact there have been no good leads turned up as yet and coupled with the recent storm activity, I would say that the odds of actually being able to track someone's movements are pretty close to nil at this point and I would instead concentrate on my efforts on trying to locate the person and in order to do this, every pair of eyes that I could put onto the scene improves our chances of finding the person.
Your friend;
LAMAR

You obviously are uninformed concerning what search and rescue is and how it operates. The reason the SAR incident commander does not want an army of well-intentioned yahoos pouring into the hills under his watch is that the odds are, if said yahoos are inexperienced, untrained and/or under equipped, that one or more of them will become lost or injured himself and then take the focus off finding the subject and place it on hauling his well-intended but sorry ass back to safety. You may denegrate the abilities of the SAR team if you wish, but in your case it's out of ignorance - so you're forgiven.

You are correct on one point - the fact that the search began way late, especially after a weather event, makes it unlikely that physical clues can be located. Unlikely, but not impossible. The key word is 'search'. Search as much ground as possible. Air searching with helicopters and/or fixed wing craft have been used on this mission as I understand it, but the chances of sighting the subject from the air are neglible unless the subject is cooperating on the ground (fires, signals, waving, etc.). High tech airborne devices can help, but the odds are not as high as you might imagine.

The SAR incident commander is using the resouces available to him. He doesn't have the time for distractions unless there is usable information coming from the public, which is unlikely. If you are concerned about the competence of the team (all volunteers), maybe you can donate money to them so that they can continue to upgrade their equipment and fund additional training for their members. It wouldn't hurt to seek additional support from the State of Arizona along those lines either.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning my friends: Djucy and springfield are right on the ball with their posts. I, for one, always have more information on the area where I intend to go than most of the locals. With today's world sat coverage, and plentiful free topo maps, there is no reason to become lost. Disoriented 'yes', but lost? no.

Five minutes study on any region in the world, the US especially, should be enough to orient yourself, and the basic sun rises in the East and sets in the west should get you to civilization. Perhaps not in the most expedient way, but it will get you there.

I doubt that there are very many areas in the US any more, that three or four days of basic line travel wouldn't get you to a ranch, town, or a road. I myself have gone without water while hefting a 65# back pack for three days in southern Mexico. It wasn't particularly enjoyable, but I probably could have gone for a few more days.

As for the teams not wanting anyone tramping around, they rely upon signs which can quickly become confusing, if fresh ones are being left hourly. They cannot know which set to follow and might spend critical hours following the ant tracks of a well meaning intruder.

In the old days a good tracker could easily identify the person / animal they were after by many small and intimate factors, such as how they might favor one leg over the other, a slight cast of one foot, the weight that the person was carrying, length of stride, size and shape, myriads of small things that the modern tracker no longer learns.

As for sophisticated satellite coverage, helicopters, dogs, military, etc, etc., forget it. These teams have a very hard time just maintaining themselves, and this on basically a volunteer basis. Most supply their own transportation, and equipment. They would love this new stuff, but until the next person needs their service, they are quickly forgotten by the state or local controller. If you wish to do your part, SUPPORT them, and provide a fund for using these advanced techniques, services, and equipment.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

Dear group;
Keeping information *priviledged* or *confidental* when a persons' life is at stake is akin to playing God in the extreme sense of the word, in my very humble opinion. I know if it were ME who were lost out in the boonies then I'd want EVERYBODY in the entire WORLD to know EVERYTHING there possibly is to know about me in order to help someone, ANYONE, find ME!

Certainly, I understand that there are SAR teams who consider themselves to be professionals, and yet while these well-intentioned sorts are running around playing 007 and Daniel Boone, Jesse's meter IS running.

I also find it strange that these same well-intentioned people seem to be attempting to track the lost persons' movements. Considering the time which has elapsed and the fact there have been no good leads turned up as yet and coupled with the recent storm activity, I would say that the odds of actually being able to track someone's movements are pretty close to nil at this point and I would instead concentrate on my efforts on trying to locate the person and in order to do this, every pair of eyes that I could put onto the scene improves our chances of finding the person.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Lamar, for someone who is obviously as educated as yourself, your comments on this subject are ill-informed at best and ignorant/thoughtless at worst.

Analogies that immediately comes to mind is that of the dissapearance/kidnapping of a young child or the investigation of a crime scene. According to your logic, the most useful way to solve either case is for anyone/everyone with any desire to help to get out there and beat the brush - while that's certain to solve an issue at least now and then, I have a strong suspicion that an organized and trained force of people (police, detectives, etc...) would have MUCH higher odds of solving the case than a well intentioned public who think they may know best. Of course that's due to the fact that I don't consider those groups to be "007 or Daniel Boone" types as you apparently do.

In the best case scenario, all of the groups find a way to work together and share information, and from what I've heard the last couple weeks that's exactly what's been happening. Just because that information isn't being shared on the internet for everyone to add their $0.02 doesn't mean it isn't occurring.