MAN LOST IN SUPERSTITIONS

[lamar]

Beth,

"Many of our searches are done at night

Do you have that going on in your neck of the woods very often?

You are right about it being a specific skill - that was one of the things they trained Mr. O in when he was a corrections officer. Even working with dogs is a specialty, separate from man tracking man."

It seems that most searches are done after the family calls to report someone has not come back to camp or home. That call is usally prompted by the sun going down.

I worked with dogs in Vietnam. It was a specialty, but a different kind of search. Unless you have one really fine dog, I am not a big fan. That being said, there are some dogs that are LEGEND!

Joe

Dear cactusjumper;
I once had a hound that was so cold nosed, he could track a dinosaur. Top that for a legend, my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

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[Springfield]

Dear cactusjumper;
One word, my friend. GPS (OK, that's an abbreviation of three words, but if you say the three initials quickly enough, it becomes a word).

Does anyone know if the lost gentleman had a GPS unit with him? If so, then one may conclude that:
1) The GPS is not functioning (unlikely)
2) He is not lost and therefore does not wish to be found. (Again unlikely)
3) He has met with an injury and he cannot return to his jump off point under his own volition. (most likely)
Your friend;
LAMAR

Whether or not the subject had a gps with him is irrelevant in the minds of those trying to find him. Unless the SAR team found evidence to the contrary (eg a notebook with target gps coordinates), the subject's possible possession of a gps is no more important to their search plan than his possible possession of a cell phone, ham radio, map & compass or any other gear.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Springfield,

Thanks for your post. I was not trying to discredit those folks (professionals) who were out looking - only the possibilities of searchers NOT knowing where - or - what, a treasure hunter, in particular, may choose to do. (different from the everyday "hiker"), that a prospector or treasure hunter might be able to figure out, especially if they were well acquainted with the area in particular.

Gosh, we have been out in that area and seen joggers - not even a day pack - no water - 4 miles back in. We actually had a lady jogger ask us why in heavens name would we carry water - duh! I asked her why she didn't pack ANY water - which, of course, the answer was - she wasn't planning on being there for very long.

It is upsetting to me, probably because I do know that area, really well, and I know there are places there that someone could "hole up" for days, I know the side trails that are very hard to see but a treasure hunter might take a day trip to, I know where there is water that's not on a map - stuff like that.

I do know that night-tracking is very efficient - never did it looking for a person, but sure have had the "opportunity" to track at night after an archery deer hunt gone long. (we never leave hit game in the field), and the blood trail was gone, but we knew he was hit and wouldn't be surviving the run.

Since you have experience - I wonder about the cell phone deal (before they found it). Once, when we were traveling, there was an accident on the highway. (not us). The elderly gentleman could not get out of the car - he was pinned by his airbag and seatbelt. I opened my cell to call
911, and found out that I had no battery life left, and no bars. (great, eh?) Someone had told me that emergency services could be reached even without an account, so I gave it a shot, and dialed 911. Somehow, the police answered. I told them I wasn't even sure what mileage marker we were at, and the police officer asked me if they could "track" my signal - I said ok, and within a short time, he told me exactly where we were, and they dispatched an ambulance, police cars and a tow truck. I am assuming the GPS (inside the cell phone) gave them the info. I know we couldn't use it, but the police certainly did.

Is that a normal operational procedure? The second question would be thermal imaging. (these are things that weren't available back just a few years ago - at least, not as normal equipment that would be available to a smaller city or state.)

B

 

[Oroblanco]

Mrs Burnett please accept my humble apologies for our rude and thoughtless comments. Do not give up on your son, there are springs and water tanks (natural) in that area and even edible plants (mesquite beans) which could sustain a man for a very long time. There are also caves in which to shelter. People have gotten lost for much longer periods of time than he has been and turned up alive and well.

If there is anything you can think of that might help the searchers to locate him, please don't hesitate to share it. I am in SD so cannot directly assist in the search but we have some very capable and experienced people who are looking and any bit of info might help.
Roy A. Decker ~ Oroblanco

 

[cdltpx]

An inch of rain falling in that area less than an hour means flash flooding!

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Hey -

Get it?

A couple of years ago, a bunch of boyscouts were trapped there by flash floods - they all got out, alive and well.

B

 

[Oroblanco]

PS to Mrs Burnett and the family and loved ones of Jesse - know that they WILL find him. It is just a matter of time.
Sincerely,
Roy

 

[lamar]

Dear Ms. Barnett;
First, there are no jerks commenting about your sons' health. You need to understand that everyone is working with some very scanty information and your sons' health history is not at our disposal, therefore we all naturally tend to assume the most likely causes in situations such as this one.

I, for one, would have liked to have known what your son had in his possession at the time of his disappearance to better grasp what his could and could accomplish as far as survival is concerned. I've been part of many past SAR teams and I've learned to go out with as much information as possible. This greatly increases the odds of accomplishing a successful recovery.

If there is ANYTHING that you can think of to aid the rsearch crews then my advice would be to be as forthcoming as humanly possible. For example, what was the purpose of your sons outing, if any? How well was he equipped? Did he typically venture outdoors solo or did he often go out in a group? How many days did he originally intend to be out in the wilderness. Any information such as this can help paint a picture for the SAR teams.

Please do no panic. The human body is extremely resilent to the forces of nature and many people, especially those in great physical shape, can survive for months and even years, sustaining off the land. Please remain confident and hopeful. I am praying for your son.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[gollum]

Jesse Capen is my son...I have much information to share...he is not 5'8"...he is 6'4"...broad shoulder and has big bones...
I am very upset with some of the responses...but most are very kind...others sound like a joke.
If anyone out there is interested...send a message.

Jesse is my only son..working on a PHD in this subject...the jerk comenting on his height and weight and a possible heart attach could not match Jesse's size and is a shallow shadow of his character.

I do not know how to do this.
Jesse is the light of my life...what do I do?

With out his body I will not have closure...

An old antique clock on my wall had stopped due my absence...I have been in the Ariaona desert looking for my son...I will not wind the clock until Jesse comes home.



Cynthia Burnett

Mrs Burnette,

The person in question is not a jerk. Prior to your post we only had the information from the original post to go by. A person 5'8" and 205 would not necessarily be in shape for hiking some of the rugged areas of the Supers. Although, his guessing at a heart attack was a bit thoughtless. Thanks for clearing up the description.

I second Beth's idea that hope is not lost. It is also possible that he climbed into a cave or old mineshaft (there are many out there) and can't get out (I am certain that the SAR Folks have also had that thought). He would not be visible from the air or ground. Without specific location information, a dog would be the main way to find him.

There are many possibilities, but since I am in California and not Arizona, I can only give advice and not feet on the ground.

I sincerely hope everything turns out alright-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening Mrs Burnett: I am that jerk that you referred to. With the original information provided, short of an accident, that was the only logical answer possible.

There is absolutely nothing wrong or 'derogatory' with suggesting that, on the contrary one must go prepared to handle this if it had occurred, most can be handled with the proper treatment. The idea was to go prepared.

You did state -->...the jerk commenting on his height and weight and a possible heart attach could not match Jesse's size and is a shallow shadow of his character.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not very complimentary, but You are correct, I am only 5' 8" and 150 lbs. However, I have carried that over most of the Pacific basin in explorations,. mostly alone, including living off of the Yucatan jungle for 6 months. I do have a basic idea of survival and existence in primitive conditions.

If Jesse has the heart and spirit to go with his body, he will come home with fantastic memories to add to his memories and paper.

Once when I went into the Barrancas of the Rio Yaqui, I only had my mule for company. I was gone for 6 weeks. Every one assumed that either one of the few wild Indians or bandidos in there had killed me, but on the contrary, when I returned I was even fatter than when I entered, I had become friends with some of them .

If Jess only had a minor problem like an injured leg he will turn up a bit thinner but just fine, and it will give a personal flavor to his thesis.

So relax and have faith.

I doubt that anyone in here can say that I have 'ever posted' any form of an insult or lack of sympathy for any conditions, including some that may parallel your present one.

I also realize that you are under a tremendous strain and will naturally lash out at any supposedly criticizing / negative post. which in no way was it intended to be, It was just part of the ongoing posts, no more, no less...

I will say this on closing, If I was in Ariz, Instead of 400 miles south in Mexico, I personally would be doing my part, I actually am a fair tracker by necessity and training. I was in the US Border Patrol for a while.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s May I also thank those out there that 'know' me, for their defensive posts, I appreciated that greatly.

 

[Cubfan64]

Folks, enough already with the defensiveness and other off topic stuff please - it's not a time for any of that at all. Someone in Mrs. Burnett's situation get's to say and feel ANYTHING she wants and there's nothing to gain by trying to defend oneself at this point imho.

Mrs. Burnett - please, is there anything else AT ALL that might help people looking for your son? Anything such as landmarks (even names that don't appear on maps and such) that he may have left information about? Is there anything at all that came out of the search of his computer and/or notes that hasn't been made public that might help some of the guys from this and other forums out there looking for him?

Sincerely, Paul

 

[lamar]

Dear Ms. Burnett;
The fact that Jesse most likely has a functioning GPS on his person narrows things down to him being lost as a secondary priority. Once again, ruling out foul play, we can therefore assume that Jesse either does not wish to be located or that he has become immobile to the point that he cannot return to his starting point, with the odds being that he has suffered from an injury and cannot proceed onwards.

The fact that your son is bipolar is of no consideration at this point either, although it is good to know. From the information you've provided, I may assume that your son is extremely bright and also thinks creativity. If this is true, then he is an excellent candidate for longterm survival in a wilderness environment. I would remain ever-hopeful for your sons' safe return and place my faith in Gods' hands. As always, I am praying for his speedy return to your side.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Ritchie]

Ms. Burnett,

I am very sorry to hear about your son being missing in the mountains. There is another website I found last night while searching for more information about him. There are people on that site that are making trips into the mountains looking for Jesse and they are planning another trip this weekend. You may want to check it out for any updates on their search. Here is alink to the site.

http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1569

Hope this helps you.

Ritchie

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Cynthia: the sparring is over as far as I am concerned, neither of us have any apologizing to do, I was just clarifying my position, you don't have to. I understood.

First Cyn, you are my type of a gal, I love the unknown and outdoors. Most of my active life has been alone. What type of doggie do you have? I have a report with animals, hence am good friends with most in here.

As for Jesse, I would like to meet him also after this is over. what was his Thesis about for his PhD?? Tell him to open a line in here, many probably have excellent data to pass on to him.

The most favorable factor for him, which wasn't posted when I wrote my infamous post, was that it had 'rained heavily' in the area. This will leave many small and large depositories of water for him, for days if not weeks, if he doesn't mind a few wrigglers. This will also lower the temps for him, another huge plus.

As for his being Bipolar so ?? Actually I am the only one in here that is perfect just ask me. However, in Jesse's case, sometimes it can lead to a bit of confusion, especially after a possible flash flood experience and he can lose his sense of direction, or even the why. He could be wandering far from where the jeep was found, perfectly normal now, perhaps a bit hungry, but healthy otherwise, but not knowing exactly where he is.

The situation as orig set up was a city dweller with very little survival or desert experience, at 5'7" and weighing about 208 lbs was a very iffy setup.

Jesse is another situation entirely, due to YOUR bringing him up knowledgeable and experienced. You have done your part Luv, now it is up to him to do his. He has the training and experience thanks to a loving mother.

If anyone can break the odds, Jesse can.

In the mean time get ready to compare notes.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Springfield]

... The fact that Jesse most likely has a functioning GPS on his person narrows things down to him being lost as a secondary priority. Once again, ruling out foul play, we can therefore assume that Jesse either does not wish to be located or that he has become immobile to the point that he cannot return to his starting point, with the odds being that he has suffered from an injury and cannot proceed onwards...

You might be surprised to consider how often people with gps's (and other battery-powered devices too, such as cell-phones) find themselves with dead batteries and no spares. Speculating that the subject is injured has no better odds than any other option to the SAR team - he could very well be simply lost.

 

[extractor]

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

Here is the latest info regarding the search for Jesse copied from Jim Hatt and DesertUSA.com


Tortilla Search
Friday, January 1, 2010 5:52 PM
From:
"David Bremson" <dbremson@cox.net>

Mr. Hatt,

As we discussed, Maricopa and Pinal County Sheriff's Offices will have search and rescue personnel in the area you mentioned in your forum. We ask your forum members to please stay out of the area during the active search. Mr. Capen has been missing for several weeks, and any potential clues in the area are very fragile. If untrained searchers are in the area, they may accidently destroy any remaining evidence and decrease the possibility of locating the gentleman.

We understand that you are concerned with his well-being, however, we are also concerned, in addition to the safety of non-trained people operating in the area.

Thank you for your assistance and understanding.

Regards,

David

www.mountainrescue.org
www.mra.org

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Jim has already gone there. (in the area HE thinks should be looked at) - and, so have others.

A vehicle (I am assuming this little car with Colorado plates is Mrs. Burnett's vehicle) was parked in the area. A helicopter searching. He found no one else.

This is confusing. Especially since he is going back.

B

 

[Oroblanco]

Joe your comments are hardly helpful. Search and Rescue teams are excellent and from what interaction I have had, highly professional and with a superb record of finding lost persons. The fact that NON-professionals wish to help or offer assistance is no bad reflection on the SAR teams. It is a desire to help one of our fellows.

If I could figure a way, I would be happy to come there and help in any way I could. I am sure that Beth would as well. We do understand the professionals' desire to keep amateurs out of the search area for obvious reasons, but if and when they can not continue the search or are willing to accept volunteer assistance, it should not be denigrated.
Roy

 

[Oroblanco]

Joe not one of the persons you named has made claims of "knowing what is best" and no one doubts the expertise of the Search and Rescue teams of which you are a part, nor of the Sheriff's dept. I don't get the reasons for the sarcasm. We all want to see Jesse found and rejoin his family, regardless of whom finds him or if he manages to hike out on his own. There is NO reason for you to remove yourself from this discussion, in fact since it seems that the Oroblancos are causing you irritation we will not post anything further unless directly spoken to.
Roy