LUE

[Randy Bradford]

Mike, what's your take on the LUE ? You've done a lot of real research into the history of Church & Conquest in the Americas - have you seen anything in archive texts or field discoveries that would support the idea of mammoth-sized caches of gold and\or silver ingots buried in the present-day SW of USA?

The only primary source material I've seen is what's printed by KVM and it's full of contradictions and references to older books and newspaper articles and past events (like the FBI supposedly soliciting the public's help by printing the map in newspapers) that no one has ever been able to track or pin down.. perhaps the only exception being The Scarlett Shadow book by Walter Hurt. KVM refers to the LUE as one of the great treasure legends of the Americas if not The Greatest... yet there are no similar treasure legends I've heard of where people pull lumps of gold out of the ground like they're potato farmers.

What say you ?

I know you didn't direct this to me, but I thought i'd share a few thoughts just the same.

*MAJOR flaw of the LUE is that most of the source material came from Karl or was printed by Karl through his own treasure tabloid (NPG). I'd agree 100% with this point. Minimally it creates a lot of doubt (reasonably).

*Karl has also made it clear the LUE has been reported and referred to under other names. I'm about 98% certain he's referring to the Treasure Mountain "Frenchmen's" treasure. It has the elements of on the ground treasure markers, a cryptic waybill, multiple cache sites, and the presence of slash marks, monuments, etc. in that area is well documented in Cornelius' book, "Sheepherder's Gold."

*I don't think there are many contradictions with Karl's reporting, he didn't share enough for there to be frankly.

*Karl never suggested the FBI was involved in the LUE that I'm aware. That aspect of the story was conflated by a T-Net poster who studied the LUE extensively, he's the same one that attributed Nazi connections to the cache. He similarly "cross-pollinated" the LUE with the 17 tons of gold story which is not only a different story, but hundreds of miles west of the LUE ground zero.

*Much of what we know that is confusing about the LUE was introduced by Tom Hilton in his early 1970's article "debunking" the LUE. Reality is, he's the first to suggest it was "40 acres of gold", I've never seen another reference to this. Hilton wrote his article 2 or 3 years after failing on multiple attempts to find the treasure. His work is rife with problems.

 

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[Randy Bradford]

I have no particular opinion of KVM, other than the fact that he made his money writing books. Like the Lost Dutchman books, all BS. I didn't know about the map KVM had of the so called LUE. Long after I found this Eagle site, I got a copy and began working it out, when I realized it fit this site. The only treasure sites you will find in a book are either already plundered of don't exist at all. I never went by anything in a book. I packed through mountain ranges and started finding the signs. First I would buy helicopter time and look at it from the air. There are a few pilots that will drop you but they are few and far between. That's the only, best way to do it. Books? I saw an old Lost Dutchman Book in the second hand store the other day. I perused it a bit. All crap. Not even worth the $2.00

Karl did make a living selling books...part of a living anyway. With the exception of Treasure of the Valley of Secrets, however, his books were informational and not geared towards specific sites. He wrote common sense advice on how to research, work, and liquidate finds. He wasn't selling people a bill of goods on treasure sites. Even in 42 issues of the NPG he rarely talked about treasure sites, the two that come to mind are the LUE and the Beale treasure, and that wasn't even an article he wrote. Karl published extensively about RECOVERIES...so people could learn from what people who were successful were doing. Karl was openly critical of many treasures like the Lost Dutchman, the Lost Adams, the Lost Ship of the Desert. He rebuked those stories from the most common sense approach possible...people have looked for over a hundred years, if something was to be found it would have by now. Hardly the advice of a man looking to exploit the gold-gilded dreams of treasure seekers.

Karl also made a lot of money HELPING the treasure hunter and prospector by selling supplies, books, maps, etc. Exanimo was his livelihood and it apparently made him enough money to keep him in a position to write and attend the treasure shows. Much of Karl's later work was related to finding gold, not treasure hunting...so he focused a lot of written work on prospecting, mining, placer hunting, making equipment for said endeavors.

Karl also focused a lot of energy on being self-sufficient...he was a man decades ahead of his time. He wrote about things 50 years ago that are just now getting "trendy"...prepping, living off the grid, making money on the side, "life hacks". Of all the columns that were featured regularly in the NPG for almost 15 years, his emphasis on owlhooting and "Tips for Prospectors" (Which were essentially "hacks"...re-purposing common things and DIY) all revealed how important he thought it was. He championed the idea of living a life "off the time clock" and treasure hunting was just one mechanism to achieve financial and personal freedom.

 

[Holyground]

Karl didn't find one part of the LUE. There is only one LUE. I think the name LUE may be a misnomer or possibly renamed by the second party to find it. In any event, it appears to have been initially discovered way before the popular stories describe. As far as "40 acres of gold," Every old prospector dreamed of "40 acres of gold." 99% of the information concerning the LUE is just that, a dream created by book writers to kindle the dreams of book buyers. At the heart of the story however, is just another Jesuit mine, used as a storage site when they were rightly expelled from New Spain. Keeping the dream alive and breathing is great fun. It gives people something to keep writing about, with the dream of selling more books.
Karl did write some good information but by the time I perused one of his books, I already knew how to pan for gold, and how to sell it.

 

[Coach K]

LUE=Latebra Uter Egregius...In the early 80s, I was prospecting for gold near sells and met an elderly Native American in Sells Arizona whos son had been searching for a lost mine. The native American was in a bad way and I offered to buy him a hot meal and drink. He declined the offer politely and asked what I was doing in Sells. I told him I was prospecting for minerals and he informed me of the fact that I was on Indian land. Much to my surprise, he was correct. As we chatted, he decided that he wanted the hot meal after all and we ate at a nearby run down establishment that he suggested we go to. During the meal (I did not eat as the utensils were filthy dirty), he mentioned his son was searching for a lost gold mine South and West of Sells. Of course this peaked my interest and I listened intensely as he continued with his sons adventures and things he found in his journeys. One particular comment he made to me dealt with the map that his son had that had the initials "LUE" and the words that supposedly stood for the acronyms. Having heard of the LUE in KVM book, I listened even more intently as he told me of the old mine which contained gold bars, priests robes, jewels, religious artifacts made from solid gold, and something that I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't known a little about the subject of giants. He proceeded to tell me in detail about a giant skeleton that his son found sitting at a table that was approximately 6 feet tall and 10 feet long. The chair that the skeleton was sitting on was 5 feet tall at the seat. The son estimated that the skeleton was at least 15 feet tall. Now your probably thinking that I am 10 beers into a 24 pack, but I rarely drink. Needless to say at this point in the conversation I thought I was being played for a monetary hand out above and beyond the meal. Was I dead wrong..he asked if I wanted to meet his son that evening. I had planned to head back to Ohio later that evening but thought that I would be possibly making a mistake. I agreed to the meet at his sons house at 8pm keeping in mind this may be an attempt to relieve me of my wallet and prospecting equipment. I arrived at the sons address at the agreed upon time and decided it was better to stay in my vehicle and talk. Both men approached my truck and asked if I wanted to come into the house as the son wanted to show me a few things. Well, what do I do now but go against my instincts and agree to go in. Once inside I was happy I made the decision to go in. On the sons back wall which there were only four of, was a large safe that had to way a thousand pounds. We sat at his dining room table that was littered with cigarette butts, empty beer bottles and a half gallon of spoiled milk with the words "sell by 7-18-82"...the date was mid September, two moths past the throw me out date. In the sink was a pile of dishes that flowed onto the counter and had mold growing on them. I was asked if I would like a cup of coffee..I may be crazy but not stupid. I declined politely, and asked if we could talk more about the LUE that his father eluded to. The son excused himself and went to the safe without saying a word. He opened the safe and reached in to retrieve an item and walked back to the table and sat down. My curiosity was peaked and I tried not to show them that I was ready to crap my pants in anticipation of what was wrapped in the cloth. He laid the object down on the table and it made a "clunck" which immediately my mind went to the object being a weapon. He unwrapped the object and what I saw was truly amazing. There before me was a solid gold sword handle that he converted to a knife replacing the rusted away sword with a blade from a bowie knife. The gold handle was ordained with what appeared to be ruby's and emeralds and embossed with what I would say was old Spanish helmets and armor. I was in awe of the item but realized this may be a fake. Sensing what I was thinking, he walked back to the safe and brought back a piece of paper and placed it in front of me. To my amazement, the letterhead stated that it was from the Smithsonian Institute and as I read further, the letter stated that it appeared from the pictures presented to them, to be from the 1700s and it if genuine, would have belonged to a Spanish soldier of high rank and of high stature in the Spanish realm possibly given to him by the king of Spain. More to come if interested.

 

[Crow]

Gidday amigo

Keep talking amigo I am enjoying the story.

Crow

 

[Honest Samuel]

Karl sold me my first detector and was a great talker, but, no info on Connecticut.

 

[Coach K]

LUE, PART II-Reading the letter and seeing with my own eyes the gold sword handle, I asked if there were additional artifacts that I could look at and the son returned to his safe and brought out what appeared to be Spanish armor. The breast plate and helmet were a dull color and in pristine condition. I asked where he found these artifacts and he stated that they were in the old mine along with the other artifacts. Now, your probably wondering if I'm going to ask if the son would take me to the mine... well I ask and received a definitive NO! more later...

 

[Holyground]

There is a Spanish mine south and west of Sells. It is on Indian land and/or a bombing range that is watched closely. Did you ever wonder where Coronado stashed those canons he didn't want to drag all the way to Zuni? That would be near there, in a small cave that is on the REZ. They are still there and and if you get caught, you will never be seen again. Coronado came up to the Sonoyta river and made everyone stay there while he went first, He ordered them to only leave in small parties every 2 weeks or so. That is where the valley of hearts is. South of there, in Sonora, is the first place they all stopped, at a small oasis. The corn and water started running out quickly so the Indians told them about Sonoyta, to the north. Melchor Díaz is the reason I explored the area. Of all of the GREAT SOLDIERS that went with Coronado, Melchor Díaz is the greatest of all. I guess you could say he is my favorite and a hero. Anyway, I found his grave. They piled rocks on the body, a huge pile of rocks that you cannot mistake. Melchor accidentally killed himself when his lance stuck in the ground at a full run on his horse, then came back and ripped his testicles out. His men tried to get him back so he could be administered last rights but he didn't make it. It was a horrible death which was made worse because he lived two or three days riding his horse. So, why did Father Kino travel through the most inhospitable portion of our desert, then stop right there where Melchor Díaz's grave is two hundred years later? To administer last rights to Melchor Díaz, of course. The Padres had all left to go north and there was no one to do it at the time of his death. The research I did on that area was great fun. I can tell you where all of the wells the Indians had dug along the Santa Rosa Wash. U of A did a major research project there and I have all of the papers. You know, the wells spoken of by Marcos de Niza. I am one of the few people that actually knows exactly the route taken by Coronado. SHHHH! Don't tell the scholars! They hate to be wrong! I don't care though, that's why I don't show them the little piece of horse shoe with the pumpkin head nail sticking out of it. Talk about diagnostic artifacts!
The Indians of Sonyota attacked the Spanish and run them out. The Spanish fled north to a new location and set up a fortress of sorts. It sits high on a mountain. There are signs carved here and there in the rocks but when I found the "Lookout" chair, carved in rock, I knew. It is a perfect chair that looks out over the valley below and faces south and west, right towards Sonoyta. There are remnants of walls and it is a metal detector's dream. From the arrowheads and clubs and punkin balls it looks like them Indians gave them hell more than once. Next stop, Maricopa Wells. Did you know that from from 1541 to now, more than 80% of Arizona wetlands have dried up? This was a very different world then.

 

[Coach K]

I have a curiosity about your info. I too have info about sells and Sanoyta. I have what I believe to be the solution to the LUE map. I am in Arizona now. I need help locating a specific Jesuit mission to fill in the last piece of the map. Any help is appreciated.

 

[TTTeller]

I daydream about moving out West and exploring the countryside and the reason I love this website is you guys sharing stories, photos, and your thoughts sates the spirit, so to speak. Thanks

Anyways, I got Randy’s latest Exanimo Presents book which seems to contain the most info about this “LUE”. I think he makes it clear, reading between the lines, that its located in the North of Santa Fe -> Southern Colorado border region and he also wrote that the 1930’s saw the largest rush of LUE treasure hunters looking in Segundo, Weston, and Trinidad.

Digging through local newspapers of that era is a challenge because, as has been discussed many times here, the 1930’s saw a huge explosion of lost gold treasure & lost gold mine stories in print circulation.

So much of this is true, but yet so wrong at the same time.

The coordinate hits are just strong in this area because it was a straight away - common road, with lots of places to hide.

There are many ‘caches’ beyond these coordinates.

As well, an important thing to note would be that, in most incidents, the ‘treasure’ was transported there.

Uniquely, it was removed from many different areas, and those removals now have their own stories and legends attached to them.

She’s a tricky mistress the LUE. Hides in the guise of KGC, Jesse James, Peralta… ,
That’s how it stays ‘hidden’, I’m sure.
For example, this is not a Jesse James cache - but you do need the clue that has falsely plastered the Jesse James name all over it.

Follow the clues - but I wouldn’t trust the names they’re ‘traditionally listed as or known by.

…

 

[sdcfia]

So much of this is true, but yet so wrong at the same time.

The coordinate hits are just strong in this area because it was a straight away - common road, with lots of places to hide.

There are many ‘caches’ beyond these coordinates.

As well, an important thing to note would be that, in most incidents, the ‘treasure’ was transported there.

Uniquely, it was removed from many different areas, and those removals now have their own stories and legends attached to them.

She’s a tricky mistress the LUE. Hides in the guise of KGC, Jesse James, Peralta… ,
That’s how it stays ‘hidden’, I’m sure.
For example, this is not a Jesse James cache - but you do need the clue that has falsely plastered the Jesse James name all over it.

Follow the clues - but I wouldn’t trust the names they’re ‘traditionally listed as or known by.

…

Most of the "treasure legends" that are discussed on TNet or appear in print had a strong impetus in the 1930s. Many likely have roots in reality, but they are all cover stories meant to deceive and mislead. Many were likely born as reactions to the Gold Act of 1933, and despite 90 years of "good information" available in the public domain, they remain as unfulfilled challenges. It's a valid assumption that, if there is any truth to these legends, the caches have either already been recovered by their owners or remain available to them. The LUE is on this list (note the cartoon map and its myriad of "solutions"), but also may be a complete hoax. IMHO.

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Key: IAYAYAYAM



KVM gave us the key to finding the LUE. I=eye, A=shadow marker, Y=arroyo, M=treasure room. Not seeing much of that here.
Maybe I've just missed it.

Read it backwards not frontwards as shown. Read Charles Kenworthy book on the Lost Dutchman Mine it has some good information that you will find helpful in deciphering the key.

Regards

LUE-Hawn

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Oh that's right, KVM found it. Well, he knew then.

He didn’t find it all. Its still there. Its just on private property.

Regards

LUE-Hawk