LUE clue...the Obit of Hardrock Hammond

[Crow]

Its seems all very suspicious that this story 1929? With Ajo in which had Arizona first open cut copper mine.

The ore mined there was smelter into blister copper ingots. below

Blister copper ingots with have impurities in then Some time lead silver gold and other metals in then they are reprocessed in a refinery. Ajo did not have the capacity to refine the copper blister it produced until an updated plant 1924 with anode casting and tank house refining, precious metal plant capacity.

If the story of treasure being found in 1929 was true. it might of been pilfered blister ingots before 1924. after then pilfer precious metals from the precious metals plant.

In 1929, during a period of “stabilization,” copper men squeezed their price up to stratospheric levels of nearly 24¢ per lb. It was a cordial invitation to open every high-cost mine in the world. By 1933, the U. S. price was down to less than 5¢ per lb., foreign quotations to 4.40¢.

So temptation was there for employees to pilfer copper ingot or even process refined copper or precious metals.

A strike in 1985 led Phelps Dodge to suspend production, and depressed worldwide copper prices throughout the 1990s stymied efforts to reopen the mine. Nearby are the Papago Indian Reservation (east), the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge (west), and the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument (south).

Mining stopped in 1985. PD remained a presence in the community but sold much of its holdings, including the Plaza and the company housing. The remaining mines property is now owned by Freeport-McMoran Gold and Silver, Inc., which merged with Phelps Dodge in 2007.

That sure I am not sure there is any substance to the alleged Lue being connected to AJO operation?

Before 1872 AJo did not exist. the area is copper belt with very little significant gold vein deposits.

Crow

 

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[Crow]

The smelter below was fully functional by 1924 before that date ingots of blister was produced and shipped out through San Diego. A little more research Ajo smelter did have a tank house where used cathodes to help resolve copper anode in the electrolysis process. this the surrey of impurities could be processed in gold and silver in a precious metals plant.

Here is anode furnace creating copper anodes from the copper blister. Copper anodes are used in the purification of steel during the process of steel making. Electrolytic refining is the process of refining copper from other metals by passing an electric current through a solution of copper sulfate.

Looking at furnace below it look like a type 2 reverbitory furnace which would of used timer to reduce oxygen in blister copper to refine it to be into copper anode.

In the picture below you can see the anode cooling tanks and the anode casting wheel behind it. the furnace would have tap hole usually blocked clay.

And when the oxygen levels are reduced either by timber placed in the bath of molten copper or gas pumped in to push the air out. When air content reduced the furnace is ready to cast. unblocking the tap hole the molten metal flows down a series of heated launders into casting ladle pouring anodes in wheel of molds.

Here is the cast copper anodes below.

They they are sent to a tank house below. and placed in between sheets of cathodes over time the anodes dissolve and copper transfers to cathode and impurities such as gold silver etc fall to the bottom of the tank in slurry.

The slurry is sent to precious metal plant where through flotation tanks is separated.

If any gold came out Ajo area it was originally from theft most likely through employed in the late 1920s stolen over a periods of time.

Having worked in the industry I knew it easy to fOR employees to cheat their employees. While most plants had security there was ingenious ways to pilfer Copper and precious metals.

My guess this alleged treasure found in 1929 if the story was true? was actually from pilfering from smelting and refining process.

So if anything was recovered in 1965 my guess it would of been connected to previous employees 1929 pilfering from the smelting and refining process.

is this connected to Lue if any? is matter for conjecture.

Crow

 

[sdcfia]

. . . .
If any gold came out Ajo area it was originally from theft most likely through employed in the late 1920s stolen over a periods of time.

Having worked in the industry I knew it easy to fOR employees to cheat their employees. While most plants had security there was ingenious ways to pilfer Copper and precious metals.

My guess this alleged treasure found in 1929 if the story was true? was actually from pilfering from smelting and refining process.

So if anything was recovered in 1965 my guess it would of been connected to previous employees 1929 pilfering from the smelting and refining process.

is this connected to Lue if any? is matter for conjecture.

Crow

Ajo's copper mine was a "classic" open pit operation until its closure. Without the data, my guess is that most of the total production figures reported (Cu-Au-Ag) were recovered far, far later than 1929. At best, by 1929, IMO, any gold and silver would have been recovered in the flotation process. These concentrates would have been sent to a precious metals smelter for secondary refining, as far as I can determine Ajo was only smelting blister copper.

I can't imagine workers high-grading flotation sludge and smelting it themselves. The "Ajo treasure" was reported to be "A huge cache of 500 to 700 fine gold and silver slugs". If true, this sounds to me a lot like crude smelting of high grade ore. For example, concentration of the ore using arrastras/amalgamation, then crude smelting into "slugs".

Crow, you presented the geology of the Ajo Mine deposits. Sounds similar to many other Southwestern USA copper mines. Speculation: if the Spanish had found the Ajo deposit, or another rich surface deposit of high-grade gold somewhere in the region, they had the capability of producing the type of bullion reported as the "Ajo treasure". For comparison, the early Santa Rita del Cobre records indicate much extremely rich near-surface gold ores easily recovered there along with massive amounts of native copper by the Spanish, at least a hundred years before the lower grade open pit operation commenced.

As you asked, is this connected to the LUE? Beats me, I still don't have a clear idea what the hell the LUE is.

 

[Randy Bradford]

The only information that I've read about the Ajo cache, is what has been posted on this thread. Was there a map that led to the Ajo cache?

I'll post the story that ran from the PCI newsletter soon, I haven't read it in a while so it might shed some light. I believe it was published in 1968, so the LUE was a known commodity but hadn't been written about like it would be in 1970....

 

[Crow]

Okay some times Crow's old brain is like a fried turkeys.

You might of experienced this Yourself! When you remember story from a long time ago? And you cannot quite remember THE full details of the story? I might of already posted the details here many years ago. I Have been on here on the forum nearly 20 years.

I have hundreds of thousands of pages of documents from all over the globe. So much i forget where crap is? I will give you the part as my old fart of memory can remember.

There was a man living in mining area in the early 20th century as out hunting near a mining town. hunting deer and found a small cave in the rain and discovered a box full of bars. I think silver or copper?

I cannot remember the name? it was in a newspaper article. He recovered the bars which was supposed to have been pilfered from a mining operation? He sold the bars and bought a store in which he managed. I confirmed through census when I had his name. And I think I am not sure it could be related the Ajo mining district?

This may or may not be Johnson person connected to Ajo? If so? I did not know the later Hammond Miller connection in 1960's

As it being connected to the Lue I am not sure? Hell I am note sure the whole story of Lue was just ruse distracted would be treasure hunters away from karl's own pet projects?

Crow.

 

[mdog]

Okay some times Crow's old brain is like a fried turkeys.

You might of experienced this Yourself! When you remember story from a long time ago? And you cannot quite remember THE full details of the story? I might of already posted the details here many years ago. I Have been on here on the forum nearly 20 years.

I have hundreds of thousands of pages of documents from all over the globe. So much i forget where crap is? I will give you the part as my old fart of memory can remember.

There was a man living in mining area in the early 20th century as out hunting near a mining town. hunting deer and found a small cave in the rain and discovered a box full of bars. I think silver or copper?

I cannot remember the name? it was in a newspaper article. He recovered the bars which was supposed to have been pilfered from a mining operation? He sold the bars and bought a store in which he managed. I confirmed through census when I had his name. And I think I am not sure it could be related the Ajo mining district?

This may or may not be Johnson person connected to Ajo? If so? I did not know the later Hammond Miller connection in 1960's

As it being connected to the Lue I am not sure? Hell I am note sure the whole story of Lue was just ruse distracted would be treasure hunters away from karl's own pet projects?

Crow.

I've been studying the LUE Map for several months and posted my research in my thread, LUE MAP THEORY, MAYBE SOME CONTEXT. I'm confident in my research and have found that you have to know other information, in order for the LUE Map to make sense. You have to have the LUE Map, a constellation chart and a map of the United States that shows latitude and longitude as curved lines. With those tools, the LUE Map will lead you to specific locations associated with treasure legends and some locations where treasure has been recovered, some in the eastern United States. You must also know that the constellation Auriga was important to whatever group engineered the LUE mapping. The locations and treasure legends, associated with the LUE Map, were created over a period of a couple hundred years, so Von Mueller couldn't have fabricated it.

 

[mdog]

Its seems all very suspicious that this story 1929? With Ajo in which had Arizona first open cut copper mine.

View attachment 2170340

The ore mined there was smelter into blister copper ingots. below

View attachment 2170341

Blister copper ingots with have impurities in then Some time lead silver gold and other metals in then they are reprocessed in a refinery. Ajo did not have the capacity to refine the copper blister it produced until an updated plant 1924 with anode casting and tank house refining, precious metal plant capacity.

If the story of treasure being found in 1929 was true. it might of been pilfered blister ingots before 1924. after then pilfer precious metals from the precious metals plant.

In 1929, during a period of “stabilization,” copper men squeezed their price up to stratospheric levels of nearly 24¢ per lb. It was a cordial invitation to open every high-cost mine in the world. By 1933, the U. S. price was down to less than 5¢ per lb., foreign quotations to 4.40¢.

So temptation was there for employees to pilfer copper ingot or even process refined copper or precious metals.

A strike in 1985 led Phelps Dodge to suspend production, and depressed worldwide copper prices throughout the 1990s stymied efforts to reopen the mine. Nearby are the Papago Indian Reservation (east), the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge (west), and the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument (south).

Mining stopped in 1985. PD remained a presence in the community but sold much of its holdings, including the Plaza and the company housing. The remaining mines property is now owned by Freeport-McMoran Gold and Silver, Inc., which merged with Phelps Dodge in 2007.

View attachment 2170343

That sure I am not sure there is any substance to the alleged Lue being connected to AJO operation?

Before 1872 AJo did not exist. the area is copper belt with very little significant gold vein deposits.

Crow

I ran across this treasure legend and I thought it was interesting that the gold bars were stamped AJO.

1. In 1879, four outlaws robbed a stage near Gila Bend and made off with $125,000 in gold coins and 22 gold bars stamped “AJO”. The next day, the same gang robbed another stage near Stanwix Station obtaining 2 chests containing $140,000 in gold coins and $60,000 in currency. Fleeing northeastward when the posse trailed them into the Tonto Basin country, than northwestward when the posse finally overtook them. In the shootout, 2 of the gang were shot and killedand the other 2 escaped, making their way to Holbrook where they waited for things to quiet down. Here, one of the bandits was killed in a poker game and the other, Henry Tice, in a fit of anger, shot and killed the gambler. An irate made a quick job of justice and killed him.
   The search area for this huge store of treasure has centered around the cliffs between Mormon Lake and Flagstaff. All efforts to locate this hoard have failed.

I don't know anything about refining precious metals, but I was wondering, could the insignificant amounts of gold from the Ajo copper. have been recovered from a refinery up by Wickenburg, where there was more gold being recovered?

 

[mdog]

Okay some times Crow's old brain is like a fried turkeys.

You might of experienced this Yourself! When you remember story from a long time ago? And you cannot quite remember THE full details of the story? I might of already posted the details here many years ago. I Have been on here on the forum nearly 20 years.

I have hundreds of thousands of pages of documents from all over the globe. So much i forget where crap is? I will give you the part as my old fart of memory can remember.

There was a man living in mining area in the early 20th century as out hunting near a mining town. hunting deer and found a small cave in the rain and discovered a box full of bars. I think silver or copper?

I cannot remember the name? it was in a newspaper article. He recovered the bars which was supposed to have been pilfered from a mining operation? He sold the bars and bought a store in which he managed. I confirmed through census when I had his name. And I think I am not sure it could be related the Ajo mining district?

This may or may not be Johnson person connected to Ajo? If so? I did not know the later Hammond Miller connection in 1960's

As it being connected to the Lue I am not sure? Hell I am note sure the whole story of Lue was just ruse distracted would be treasure hunters away from karl's own pet projects?

Crow.

Hi Crow,

This Arizona treasure lead is from an old post by Tnet member GoldBack, and might explain why Johnson and his two friends were southeast of Ajo and close to the Mexican border.

"This has also been referred to as the Ajo Treasure. It is said that church valuables including gold and silver bullion have been hidden along the roadway between Sonoyta Mexico and the Tumacacori Mission. The old road was called Carretta Road. (Not so new but still a good one)"

Here's a map showing the area.

 

[Crow]

I ran across this treasure legend and I thought it was interesting that the gold bars were stamped AJO.

1. In 1879, four outlaws robbed a stage near Gila Bend and made off with $125,000 in gold coins and 22 gold bars stamped “AJO”. The next day, the same gang robbed another stage near Stanwix Station obtaining 2 chests containing $140,000 in gold coins and $60,000 in currency. Fleeing northeastward when the posse trailed them into the Tonto Basin country, than northwestward when the posse finally overtook them. In the shootout, 2 of the gang were shot and killedand the other 2 escaped, making their way to Holbrook where they waited for things to quiet down. Here, one of the bandits was killed in a poker game and the other, Henry Tice, in a fit of anger, shot and killed the gambler. An irate made a quick job of justice and killed him.
   The search area for this huge store of treasure has centered around the cliffs between Mormon Lake and Flagstaff. All efforts to locate this hoard have failed.

I don't know anything about refining precious metals, but I was wondering, could the insignificant amounts of gold from the Ajo copper. have been recovered from a refinery up by Wickenburg, where there was more gold being recovered?

In short no as there was no refinery separating gold from copper ore. Wickenburg had its own set of problems during that time frame around 1879.

Crow

 

[sdcfia]

. . . .

As it being connected to the Lue I am not sure? Hell I am note sure the whole story of Lue was just ruse distracted would be treasure hunters away from karl's own pet projects?

Crow.

Very astute observation Crow. Miller is a superb ringmaster, KVM The Great, but . . .

As far as the "LUE" itself is concerned, regardless whose ideas they are, various folks have adamantly placed it in all the 4 Corners states. Miners' high-grade theft stash, Spanish mining cache, Nazi anti-US booty, Aztec riches, KGC distraction. Out of this multiple choice test, I guess I'd pencil in the last option and pay attention to mdog's mapping concept.

What's next, extraterrestrials? The topic may be a waste of time, but there's not much else happening on TNet lately.

 

[Crow]

I found the following in History of the Ajo Mining District, Pima County, Arizona by David F. Briggs, Geologist.

Tohono O’odham Indians and their ancestors mined hematite from the hills around present day Ajo for many centuries prior to the arrival of the first Spanish explorers during the 1530s. Used as body paint, hematite was dug from shallow pits at a site known to the Indians as “au àuho,” which means paint. Later explorers used a similar sounding Spanish word, “Ajo”,meaning garlic, as the name of this site (Greeley,
1987).

During the late 1600s, Jesuit missionaries established numerous missions in northern Sonora and southern Arizona, including a mission at Sonoytain 1693.

These early settlements served as bases for early prospectors, who intermittently explored and developed primitive mining operations in the surrounding mountains. As more settlers arrived, there were episodic conflicts with the Indians, including the Pima Revolt of 1751. These uprisings disrupted mining activities at the remote sites.

This unrest led to the establishment of a number of
presidios - fortified bases - including Santa Gertrudis de Altar (1755) in northern Sonora and San Ignacio de Tubac (1752) and San Augustin de Tucson (1775)

in southern Arizona. At the outset of the Mexican
Revolution (1810-1821), the withdrawal of Spanish
troops from the region left many of the settlements.
missions and mines vulnerable to Indian raids and
outlaw depredations. Although protection was
gradually reestablished following the revolution,
significant mineral exploration and development did not resume until the mid-1850’s (Greeley, 1987).

Note sdcfia description of the alleged find gold and silver slugs is primitive process of casting A small crucible and furnace could melt gold. casting into wet clay with stick pushed holes in wet clay for a mold. Silver was a bit hard. But the silver may of cane from native raw silver which at the time not impossible. Either early Spanish prospectors could of resorted to those method.

These gold and silver slugs could hidden during the Prima revolt. But the said they could also occurred much later also?

Crow

 

[Crow]

n 1847, Tom Childs, a member of a group of 19
prospectors exploring the Cubabi Mountains southeast of Sonoyta, Sonora, heard rumors of a copper prospect at three little peaks north of the town of Sonoyta at a site named Ajo.

On their return to Tucson, the prospecting party found evidence of this early mining activity in the area that would become the Ajo mining district, including shallow open cuts in the hillside and a 60-foot inclined shaft that was accessed by ladders made from notched mesquite logs. They also found
buckets fashioned from rawhide that were used to
extract the mined material by hand (Greeley, 1987).

Note my thoughts this was evidence of earlier Spanish attempts at the site.


With the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo at the end of the Mexican American War on February 2, i848, the United States acquired California, Nevada,Utah and portions of Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico and Arizona. Unknown to both governments, gold had been discovered by James W. Marshall at Sutter’s sawmill in Coloma, California on January 24, 1848, nine days prior to the signing of this treaty.

As news of this discovery became known, prospectors from northern Sonora used El Camino del Diablo (aka the Devils Highway) to reach the California goldfields. Connecting Altar, Sonora and Yuma, Arizona, this trail passes very close to Ajo (Greeley, 1987).
Note this alleged treasure discovery near Ajo in 1929 could been buried by Mexican miners from Senora returning from the gold fields in California?

A portion of southwestern New Mexico and Arizona
south of the Gila River was purchased from Mexico
for $10 million through the successful completion of
the Gadsden Purchase in June 1854. This acquisition resolved outstanding border issues with Mexico following the end of the Mexican American War and provided a favorable terrain to construct a
transcontinental railroad along a southern route.

Returning to Texas from the California goldfields
in 1850, Peter Rainsford Brady met Tom Childs in
Tucson, who told him about his prospecting trip to
Ajo several years earlier. In 1853, Peter Brady joined
the survey party led by Colonel Andrew B. Gray, who
History of the Ajo Mining District, Pima County, Arizona 2 had been assigned the task of finding a suitable route for the southern transcontinental railroad, connecting Indianola, Texas with San Diego, California.

While on this expedition, the survey party passed through the town of Sonoyta, Sonora. With the help of a Seri Indian guide, Brady visited the Ajo site, where he gathered a number of rich ore samples. After completing this survey project, Peter Brady went to San Francisco, where he established the Arizona Mining and Trading Company in August 1854.

Other notable shareholders of this business venture included Robert Allen, Tom Childs, Colonel Andrew Gray, Granville Oury and Frederick Ronstadt (Greeley, 1987).

Shortly after the Arizona Mining and Trading Company began prospecting the area in October 1854, several wealthy citizens of Sonora claimed Ajo was located in Mexico. In March 1855, a company of Mexican cavalry was sent to Ajo to arrest Americans working at the site. This confrontation produced a skirmish that resulted in the Mexican cavalry returning to Sonora empty handed.

By September 1855, an official survey of the United States-Mexico boundary had been completed, with Ajo being located approximately 40 miles north of the border (Gilluly, 1946)

Crow

 

[Crow]

By the end of 1855, 17 mining claims had been
located near Ajo, a wagon road constructed to
Petato (now known as Gila Bend) and local Tohono
O’odham Indians were hired to help mine the ore.

Note: Interesting to note a connection to Gila bend

Approximately 10 tons of hand-sorted, high-grade ore, consisting mostly of cuprite and native copper was transported 300 miles by ox-drawn wagons through Fort Yuma to the port of San Diego and shipped by boat around Cape Horn to Swansea, Wales for smelting.

Note I am blown away ore was shipped to Wales for smelting?

Later ore shipments were transferred to
barges at Fort Yuma and floated down the Colorado River to the port of Guaymas, Sonora on the Gulf of California for trans-shipment to Swansea, Wales. (Greeley, 1987).

With the viability of this business venture threatened by high transportation costs, a reverberatory furnace was erected at Ajo in 1856 at a cost of $30,000. However, this alternative failed due to a lack of a suitable flux and the high cost of coke or charcoal to fuel the smelter. Unable to make this business venture profitable due to its remote location, high freight costs, low grade of the ores and the lack of water, the Arizona Mining and Trading Company ceased operations by 1859 (Greeley, 1987).

Note reverberatory furnace was erected at Ajo in 1856. So they could of been casting crude ingots from at least 1856. those ingots would of had silver gold copper mixed in.

Little gold other than little bit of placer deposit. Dis not seem to dominate the copper field. Silver and gold was secondary by products of smelting and refining.

So I am in agreement with sdcfia that this alleged discovery of gold and silver did not originate from Ajo itself a copper producing area could of originated from californium gold fields by Mexicans from Senora along the camio el dieablo that came into conflict with Indians or robber and hid their gold and silver died and never returned?

or earlier Spanish miners during the Prima revolt or another Indian uprising or attack?

So for me I See no evidence to support that this alleged treasure discovery in 1929 or the alleged 1965 could be connected to the Lue.

Do I know what the Lue is hell no! But i know whats it not. I am not sure hardrock Hammond or CVM ever went or even obtained a map of the Lue from Johnson. Not in the context to being part of alleged discoveries in 1929 and 1965?

The problem we have with these treasure stories they are fun to speculate but they are drowning in half truths and out right fantasy add by people repeating hearsay. Don't you love treasure legends. As soon as think you know the story it bites you in the ass.

That is why my tailed feather are half missing?

Crow

 

[Randy Bradford]

Desert Magazine did a 1950s era article on Ajo and the copper mining...I'd be happy to post if anyone's interested...

 

[Puff the Tragic Wagon]

By the end of 1855, 17 mining claims had been
located near Ajo, a wagon road constructed to
Petato (now known as Gila Bend) and local Tohono
O’odham Indians were hired to help mine the ore.

Note: Interesting to note a connection to Gila bend

Approximately 10 tons of hand-sorted, high-grade ore, consisting mostly of cuprite and native copper was transported 300 miles by ox-drawn wagons through Fort Yuma to the port of San Diego and shipped by boat around Cape Horn to Swansea, Wales for smelting.

Note I am blown away ore was shipped to Wales for smelting?

Later ore shipments were transferred to
barges at Fort Yuma and floated down the Colorado River to the port of Guaymas, Sonora on the Gulf of California for trans-shipment to Swansea, Wales. (Greeley, 1987).

With the viability of this business venture threatened by high transportation costs, a reverberatory furnace was erected at Ajo in 1856 at a cost of $30,000. However, this alternative failed due to a lack of a suitable flux and the high cost of coke or charcoal to fuel the smelter. Unable to make this business venture profitable due to its remote location, high freight costs, low grade of the ores and the lack of water, the Arizona Mining and Trading Company ceased operations by 1859 (Greeley, 1987).

Note reverberatory furnace was erected at Ajo in 1856. So they could of been casting crude ingots from at least 1856. those ingots would of had silver gold copper mixed in.

Little gold other than little bit of placer deposit. Dis not seem to dominate the copper field. Silver and gold was secondary by products of smelting and refining.

So I am in agreement with sdcfia that this alleged discovery of gold and silver did not originate from Ajo itself a copper producing area could of originated from californium gold fields by Mexicans from Senora along the camio el dieablo that came into conflict with Indians or robber and hid their gold and silver died and never returned?

or earlier Spanish miners during the Prima revolt or another Indian uprising or attack?

So for me I See no evidence to support that this alleged treasure discovery in 1929 or the alleged 1965 could be connected to the Lue.

Do I know what the Lue is hell no! But i know whats it not. I am not sure hardrock Hammond or CVM ever went or even obtained a map of the Lue from Johnson. Not in the context to being part of alleged discoveries in 1929 and 1965?

The problem we have with these treasure stories they are fun to speculate but they are drowning in half truths and out right fantasy add by people repeating hearsay. Don't you love treasure legends. As soon as think you know the story it bites you in the ass.

That is why my tailed feather are half missing?

Crow

Then you have this very similar story putting a LUE (Jesuit?) treasure in the mountains near Sells, a mere hour east of Ajo. Is it related? Unfortunately this poster hasn’t been on the forum since 2021, so we can’t ask them.

Jesuit Treasure - Putting It All Together

1 pic, is the gold we obtained from about 20 lbs of dirt in the area they worked. 2 pic, that is the mountain where I missed the large treasure in a cave. Near the top about the middle. Side entrance not visible from the front. 3 pic, example of the area in search at the moment, this is a...

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