Louisville Kentucky Bans Metal Detecting!

[Goodyguy]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

You may be interested and concerned that the city of Louisville, KY Metro Parks Dept. has established a policy banning metal detecting in all 122 public parks. This move will will severely hamper tourism by metal detecting enthusiasts and any attempts for selling metal detectors to detecting hobbyists here in our city.

Our Mayor's name is Jerry Abramson and his email is:
http://www.louisvilleky.gov/Mayor/contactusmayor.htm

His contact number is (502)-574-2003

Louisville Metro Parks: www.louisvilleky.gov/MetroParks/aboutus/contactforms/emailmetroparks.htm

Even if you are not from Kentucky please add your voice to our attempt to have this policy reversed. Let him know that because of that policy you will take your tourism dollars to a more recreation friendlier town.


Also
Please sign this petition to repeal the unfair banning of the responsible use of metal detectors in Louisville Metro Parks
http://www.petitiononline.com/louban/

Thanks,
GG~



This is what I emailed to the mayor.

Dear Mr. Mayor,

Are you kidding? You want to exclude recreation and dollars spent on recreation in city parks?

Wow I am completely at a loss at the city parks shortsightedness on their definition of recreation.

I have spent my whole life enjoying the hobby of metal detecting and have never heard of such a total misunderstanding of the hobby of recreational metal detecting such as put forth by your city parks department.

I belong to F.O.A.S. a local Archeology group in Southern Indiana, and believe me if I thought metal detecting in a city park would in any way be a detriment to that science I would quit instantly and go on a crusade to ban the hobby altogether just like your city parks official apparently is doing!

However if the ban is only due to ignorance of the hobby itself and a total lack of knowledge on the subject, then allow me to offer this as enlightenment. WE DO NOT DIG HOLES AND LEAVE THEM! What we do is make a small circular cut into the ground then raise that plug to obtain the metal object then we replace the plug and tamp it back down leaving the ground just as it was.

I believe that if anyone does do damage to the park by playing baseball or playing horseshoes or by any other means they should be held accountable.

But for fairness sake please do not outlaw a recreation just because someone may or might do damage. To tell the truth I have actually done worse damage by just hiking a muddy trail than I ever have done metal detecting.

The word is getting out nationally about Louisville's ban on metal detecting and I am sorry to say your city is going to be overlooked by thousands of hobbyists for spending their recreational and tourism dollars.


Sincerely,

 

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[Kentucky Kache]

Maybe they know something we don't know. At least one of those parks are supposed to hold a cache.

 

[Digginman]

Great post, GoodyGuy. I think you will have a better response posting it in the Kentucky forum.

DM

 

[BuckleBoy]

Maybe they know something we don't know. At least one of those parks are supposed to hold a cache.

Yes, but that's in a cave if I'm not mistaken... I wonder if the ban extends to metal detection in areas Underneath the park

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Hate to say it, but.....................



something like this will be coming
to a park near you.


all have a good un.
SHERMANVILLE

 

[Lowbatts]

All the local md'ers should send in the trash they have picked up, as much as they have saved. I reminded a couple of our local reps that in one sandlot this year I recovered 6 live 9mm rounds over the summer. I never let them by without talking about screws, nails and metal shards and other hazards I remove from playgrounds and park grass.

Good luck with this one. Remember, they may think MD'ing is too "low rent" for their vision of tourism. On the other hand, they may understand that your control and help in reducing liabilities saves more than it costs.

 

[thrillathahunt]

This is just one of the by-products of advancing socialism......big government becoming drunk with it's power to control the masses as it sees fit.

 

[BuckleBoy]

This is just one of the by-products of advancing socialism......big government becoming drunk with it's power to control the masses as it sees fit.

Keep it in the Politics Threads. Thanks!

 

[Goodyguy]

Hate to say it, but.....................



something like this will be coming
to a park near you.


all have a good un.
SHERMANVILLE

SHERMANVILLE is absolutely right!
Folks your town could be next lets stop it here first.


Even if you are not from Kentucky please add your voice to our attempt to have this policy reversed. Let him know that because of his policy you will take your tourism dollars to a friendlier town that doesn't discriminate against recreational hobbyists!

Our Mayor's name is Jerry Abramson and his email is:
http://www.louisvilleky.gov/Mayor/contactusmayor.htm

His contact number is 502-574-2003

Thanks,
GG~

 

[Goodyguy]

Great post, GoodyGuy. I think you will have a better response posting it in the Kentucky forum.

DM

I took your advice.
Guess we will see if anyone cares enough about our hobby to even try and save it for future generations.

GG~

 

[Montana Jim]

Democrat or republican?

 

[Goodyguy]

Democrat or republican?

He is a Democrat.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Goodguy, do you know the evolution of how this policy even got thought of, or started, to begin with? Of course, the obvious knee-jerk reaction is that someone was leaving holes, or aggrevating archies by snooping around obvious archaeological sites. But I sometimes wonder if that's not the case, and it's more a case of this:

Cautious newbies hop on internet forums, and invariably read some isolated incidents of hassles with laws, or something at the state/fed level, which has nothing to do with city or county parks/schools. But nonetheless, they get cautious thinking "it doesn't hurt to ask", so they go to city hall, wherever they happen to live, and start asking "permission" to hunt in the parks or schools. What's odd is that quite often, there may be absolutely nothing specifically addressing the issue of detecting (as was apparently the case in this Louisville situation?). But here you are, asking some deskbound bureaucrat, and what do you think his easy answer is going to be? I mean, afterall, their image is probably geeks with shovels And before you know it, someone invents a rule to "address your pressing issue" :P Ie.: it merely becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, that you merely imply something is wrong with you, or your hobby, that you had to ask, to begin with When odds are, you'd probably have been ignored or un-noticed. It's like the old saying "sometimes no one cares UNTIL you ask"

I know this doesn't do you any good in Louisville now, as apparently it's already past-tense I just hope when more and more of these incidents get posted, that it doesn't cause more and more newbies to run out and start asking questions of bored cops, overzealous city desk clerks, etc... and getting "no's" where no one ever really gave it thought in those locales.

For example, in my city, we detect parks and schools all the time. Since the dawn of detecting in the 1960s/70s, it never even occured to anyone there might be a problem at public parks or school (I mean, they're 'public', right?). There's never been a problem and no rules that I know of. But then one day a newbie to our city takes it upon himself to go to city hall and ask "permission" to hunt the parks. He was probably taking his clues from the then-newly-formed FMDAC, and their scary newsletters, etc... Who knows, maybe he did something stupid like show up with a shovel in his hand? They told him "no"! Imagine the rest of us oldtimer's surprise when this newbie told the rest of us at the monthly club meeting that detecting wasn't allowed in the parks here. Hmm, that was news to us! No one's ever said anything to us! That was almost 20 yrs. ago, and to this day, you can still detect the parks and schools here and not be bothered. But I gaurantee you that that would probably change, if ...... over the course of a year ...... they got a person or two per month showing up at park dept. headquarters or city hall, asking if it was ok. I bet someone would eventually make a rule, or only THEN start noticing md'rs (whom they previously would never have noticed). You know, like ....."aha, there's one of THEM", and all of the sudden start booting people.

Yeah I know, it's a maddening circle: how is a person supposed to know if a rule exists, UNLESS they ask? doh! Here's the way: Don't approach it in the context of "permission" to begin with. That just puts someone in the position of saying "no, simply because I said so", when in fact, no rule might've existed. Instead, look it up yourself. If it is silent on the issue, then go. Park and school rules are usually printed on a sign at the entrance, or available on brochures and the entrance kiosk, or on city websites, etc..... Do a key-word search on metal detecting or whatever. If nothing pops up, then what's the problem?

 

[Lowbatts]

Goodguy, do you know the evolution of how this policy even got thought of, or started, to begin with? Of course, the obvious knee-jerk reaction is that someone was leaving holes, or aggrevating archies by snooping around obvious archaeological sites. But I sometimes wonder if that's not the case, and it's more a case of this:

Cautious newbies hop on internet forums, and invariably read some isolated incidents of hassles with laws, or something at the state/fed level, which has nothing to do with city or county parks/schools. But nonetheless, they get cautious thinking "it doesn't hurt to ask", so they go to city hall, wherever they happen to live, and start asking "permission" to hunt in the parks or schools. What's odd is that quite often, there may be absolutely nothing specifically addressing the issue of detecting (as was apparently the case in this Louisville situation?). But here you are, asking some deskbound bureaucrat, and what do you think his easy answer is going to be? I mean, afterall, their image is probably geeks with shovels And before you know it, someone invents a rule to "address your pressing issue" :P Ie.: it merely becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, that you merely imply something is wrong with you, or your hobby, that you had to ask, to begin with When odds are, you'd probably have been ignored or un-noticed. It's like the old saying "sometimes no one cares UNTIL you ask"

I know this doesn't do you any good in Louisville now, as apparently it's already past-tense I just hope when more and more of these incidents get posted, that it doesn't cause more and more newbies to run out and start asking questions of bored cops, overzealous city desk clerks, etc... and getting "no's" where no one ever really gave it thought in those locales.

For example, in my city, we detect parks and schools all the time. Since the dawn of detecting in the 1960s/70s, it never even occured to anyone there might be a problem at public parks or school (I mean, they're 'public', right?). There's never been a problem and no rules that I know of. But then one day a newbie to our city takes it upon himself to go to city hall and ask "permission" to hunt the parks. He was probably taking his clues from the then-newly-formed FMDAC, and their scary newsletters, etc... Who knows, maybe he did something stupid like show up with a shovel in his hand? They told him "no"! Imagine the rest of us oldtimer's surprise when this newbie told the rest of us at the monthly club meeting that detecting wasn't allowed in the parks here. Hmm, that was news to us! No one's ever said anything to us! That was almost 20 yrs. ago, and to this day, you can still detect the parks and schools here and not be bothered. But I gaurantee you that that would probably change, if ...... over the course of a year ...... they got a person or two per month showing up at park dept. headquarters or city hall, asking if it was ok. I bet someone would eventually make a rule, or only THEN start noticing md'rs (whom they previously would never have noticed). You know, like ....."aha, there's one of THEM", and all of the sudden start booting people.

Yeah I know, it's a maddening circle: how is a person supposed to know if a rule exists, UNLESS they ask? doh! Here's the way: Don't approach it in the context of "permission" to begin with. That just puts someone in the position of saying "no, simply because I said so", when in fact, no rule might've existed. Instead, look it up yourself. If it is silent on the issue, then go. Park and school rules are usually printed on a sign at the entrance, or available on brochures and the entrance kiosk, or on city websites, etc..... Do a key-word search on metal detecting or whatever. If nothing pops up, then what's the problem?

Worth repeating s-l-o-w-l-y also!

I've had a few city engineers with varying responses to my presence at some work sites. Usually the friendly curiosity but one asked me who it was who told me I could do it (md'ing) at the particular site. It was the oldest park in town, being torn upside down and dug out. It was fenced off but I waited until lunch time and went and as the contractor crew was breaking I went to work near their foreman and asked him if they found any old goodies.
"Nope" and then he added something about why don't I hit the shallow scraped area in the corner.

A city engineer arrived and came straight to me and asked who I was with. Told him what I was doing and the contractor was good with it and moved on. Since the site boss was good with it, I was good with it.

No further problem.

He had mentioned the fence and I told him it was there to keep kids out, not me. Local historical society liked a couple goodies I got from there also.

I am all about proper permission on private property. I despise the fact that our government now gives money for land set asides for four wheelers and sledders, waterways for sports craft and the like and somehow dismisses MD'ing under the recreational land and water uses act. Maybe if we had a little less timid voice like those in the 4WD and snowmobile community.

Our County has used some of these funds to purchase river bank here and instead of it being recreational area it's then declared wildlife habitat. Even in the middle of town. But they get what they deserve, the only wildlife there are the wino's and huffers. Thousands of beer cans and spray paint cans now litter those sites.

 

[Goodyguy]

Goodguy, do you know the evolution of how this policy even got thought of, or started, to begin with? Of course, the obvious knee-jerk reaction is that someone was leaving holes, or aggrevating archies by snooping around obvious archaeological sites.

Probably some busybody do-gooder saw an MDer digging holes and reported to park officials their outrage that someone was destroying the park. As far as anyone asking for permission. No one to my knowledge has ever asked for permission to MD in the parks.

However, Last year people with detectors just started being run out of Louisville city parks and were given no particular reason for their removal.

It was because of that action that questions of legality arose and city hall was asked to produce proof of a no metal detecting in city parks law. After the city could not produce such a law. The city council met and has now adopted a statute that prohibits such activity in city parks.

It so far has not been written into law but soon will be when legislature reconvenes.

That is why we need all the emails and phone calls to the Mayor who has the authority to recend the statute.
Thus preventing it to becoming law.

This arbitrary discrimination of our hobby could happen anywhere any time. Your town could be next. So please help us end it here.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

lowbatts, how much do you want to make a bet, that if you had gone to that city inspector first, that you might not have gotten that ok? Or if that inspector had said "ok", who's to say that HIS boss might not have given you a different answer? Or heck, what if the mayor differs with their opinion, and gives a veto "no", etc....

Point is, you can always find someone to tell you "no". If someone gets a "yes" from a city hall desk clerk, or from some park worker, it merely means they didn't go high enough up the chain of command, and failed to use key words like "dig" and "archaeology & ARPA" or "personal gain from city property", blah blah But as your case shows, the odds are, no one gives it much thought. And you certainly didn't argue with your low-level/casual permission, even though others could out-rank him.

 

[Goodyguy]

E-mail sent.

Thank you! Mr. Peabody Your support is very much appreciated.
If more people were like you and would actually do something to help then maybe we will have a positive outcome to this situation.

Thank you again,

GG~

 

[PJ in WI]

I just emailed the Mayor. I live in Wi but my wife is the 100th Division. I usually travel with her and metal detect all weekend long. Hopefuuly enough people will join in and let him know about our unhappiness. PJ

 

[deepskyal]

My 2 cents worth...Good luck.

Al

Dear Mayor Abramson,

I just read with saddened interest about your recent ban on metal detecting in public parks.

I have been an avid detectorist for almost 25 years and have never had an issue in Pennsylvania in reguards to an outright ban such as you have enacted.

Quite the contrary. Park employees around here often appreciate our thoroughness in removing the large amounts of shredded pop cans, chunks of broken glass, sharp pulltabs, and in some cases used hypodermic needles.

These are all liabilities to the state and local municipalities if a child were to be playing in the grass and step on one that park maintainence overlooked.

And the second issue I have with your ban is being the tax dollars used to fund maintainence. If you begin to ban metal detecting because of a couple rotten apples leaving the holes uncovered, then in all fairness, any activity that can be construed as remotely damaging must be banned. We all pay our taxes and feel a certain right to persue a healthy, sometimes profitable hobby in OUR public parks.

Are you going to change every park sign to reflect this ban? Are seasoned detectorists going to know of this outright ban? How about those that may visit your state?

Metal detecting is a worldwide activity. It isn't just a couple guys digging holes and leaving them unfilled. I'd go as far as to say most avid detectorists leave the park in better condition than when they got there, simply by the amounts of trash we haul away.

Please reconsider your position on this ban. Like the economy, there is the sad trickle down effect that will also include manufacturers, hotels that rent rooms to out of towners for metal detecting forums and events, national events I might add, and the average Joe detector that sells a few a year to suppliment his income.

Respectfully,

(name withheld just for the forum but added to the letter)

Al

 

[jeff of pa]

My 2 cents worth...Good luck.

Al

Dear Mayor Abramson,

I just read with saddened interest about your recent ban on metal detecting in public parks.

I have been an avid detectorist for almost 25 years and have never had an issue in Pennsylvania in reguards to an outright ban such as you have enacted.

Quite the contrary. Park employees around here often appreciate our thoroughness in removing the large amounts of shredded pop cans, chunks of broken glass, sharp pulltabs, and in some cases used hypodermic needles.

These are all liabilities to the state and local municipalities if a child were to be playing in the grass and step on one that park maintainence overlooked.

And the second issue I have with your ban is being the tax dollars used to fund maintainence. If you begin to ban metal detecting because of a couple rotten apples leaving the holes uncovered, then in all fairness, any activity that can be construed as remotely damaging must be banned. We all pay our taxes and feel a certain right to persue a healthy, sometimes profitable hobby in OUR public parks.

Are you going to change every park sign to reflect this ban? Are seasoned detectorists going to know of this outright ban? How about those that may visit your state?

Metal detecting is a worldwide activity. It isn't just a couple guys digging holes and leaving them unfilled. I'd go as far as to say most avid detectorists leave the park in better condition than when they got there, simply by the amounts of trash we haul away.

Please reconsider your position on this ban. Like the economy, there is the sad trickle down effect that will also include manufacturers, hotels that rent rooms to out of towners for metal detecting forums and events, national events I might add, and the average Joe detector that sells a few a year to suppliment his income.

Respectfully,

(name withheld just for the forum but added to the letter)

Al

Those who use the Park should Advise the Mayor
Under No Uncertain Terms.

That IF they or their Child are Harmed by any Sharp
objects in the cities parks.

they will Definately Sue.
as long as there is a ban on Metal detecting