Lost Mines in Mexico - An Important Discovery by H.O. Flipper August 21, 1889

[Shortfinger]

Great story, Mal. Although I don't know the "unholy trio" myself (although I would like to meet them), from what I have read on this site and others, you may very well have had the chance to meet at least 2 of them. Kanacki posted some pictures of his sailing ship, "Drumbeat" somewhere on this site. I have been looking for them, but haven't found them yet. If I do, I'll let you know where they are. You might be able to identify the "Drumbeat" as the same vessel as the "Bountiful Harvest". Or, it may be an entirely different vessel......

JB

 

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[South Sea mariner]

Great story, Mal. Although I don't know the "unholy trio" myself (although I would like to meet them), from what I have read on this site and others, you may very well have had the chance to meet at least 2 of them. Kanacki posted some pictures of his sailing ship, "Drumbeat" somewhere on this site. I have been looking for them, but haven't found them yet. If I do, I'll let you know where they are. You might be able to identify the "Drumbeat" as the same vessel as the "Bountiful Harvest". Or, it may be an entirely different vessel......

JB

Hello Short Finger thanks for the effort.

I think Don Jose hit the nail on the head a pixies like humour in making you feel that you know them without really knowing them? However regardless if these guys you mentioned are actually the same I do not think they leave would leave any real clues to their real identities.Way too slick for that. Everything was too clockwork too precise in what they said, how they behaved and what they did? As the prosecutor who has been after them for years, said dazzling you with the one hand riffling through you pockets with the other hand at same time making you feel nothing at all.

And yet that is perhaps the magic of it all? Authorities cannot even prove any wrongdoing other than suspicion? Suspicion is a dangerous thought especially for authorities embarrassed that they might of left a bunch of old unknown geriatrics move a large fortune away from under their noses. To the point, It is more convenient to denigrate the suspicion and maintain the status quo of nothing happened at all?

Perhaps that is the REAL magic spell that they weaved?

One thing for certain they filled up a lot of empty wooden boxes with nothing at all?

Mal


View attachment 1384453

 

[Shortfinger]

Hello Short Finger thanks for the effort.

I think Don Jose hit the nail on the head a pixies like humour in making you feel that you know them without really knowing them? However regardless if these guys you mentioned are actually the same I do not think they leave would leave any real clues to their real identities.Way too slick for that. Everything was too clockwork too precise in what they said, how they behaved and what they did? As the prosecutor who has been after them for years, said dazzling you with the one hand riffling through you pockets with the other hand at same time making you feel nothing at all.

And yet that is perhaps the magic of it all? Authorities cannot even prove any wrongdoing other than suspicion? Suspicion is a dangerous thought especially for authorities embarrassed that they might of left a bunch of old unknown geriatrics move a large fortune away from under their noses. To the point, It is more convenient to denigrate the suspicion and maintain the status quo of nothing happened at all?

Perhaps that is the REAL magic spell that they weaved?

One thing for certain they filled up a lot of empty wooden boxes with nothing at all?

Mal


View attachment 1384453

Hi, Mal. Yes, I have to agree that they are far too slick to leave any evidence out there for anyone to find. However, I do find it to be a strange coincidence that the "Drumbeat" and the "Bountiful Harvest" were sailing ships, and, as I recall, the Drumbeat was a brigantine.....I could be wrong there, and I can't find the pictures to say either way yet, but I'm still looking. Although the Pacific is a big ocean, there can't be too many brigantines still sailing around out there, can there? How many have you seen?

JB

 

[South Sea mariner]

Hi, Mal. Yes, I have to agree that they are far too slick to leave any evidence out there for anyone to find. However, I do find it to be a strange coincidence that the "Drumbeat" and the "Bountiful Harvest" were sailing ships, and, as I recall, the Drumbeat was a brigantine.....I could be wrong there, and I can't find the pictures to say either way yet, but I'm still looking. Although the Pacific is a big ocean, there can't be too many brigantines still sailing around out there, can there? How many have you seen?

JB

Good point cannot say I seen many. At guess perhaps a dozen tall ships at most in all of the Pacific. And not all of the was brigantines. And indeed it is a big ocean. Yet even in an empty ocean it can take a mere half hour for a ship to come over the horizon and run over you. Sailing ships and yachts generally take a wide berth of us. So we really do not get to see the few there is.

On a side note At sea the largest ship has right of way. So my focus as captain is tending on getting out of the way of bigger ships. Even my mid size cargo ship needs several km to make a turn at speed. Anything small and they get in the way are at their own peril. While maintaining our navigational protocols will still try corrective action to avoid collisions. bit like a car versus a goods train If some thing cuts in front of me I cannot stop on a dime. If I Stop my engines it takes about 2-3 minutes to lose momentum depending on winds and current. If I put my engines into reverse thrust from full speed forward. Its a bit like driving a car in 5th gear then putting it in reverse. Not a good idea.

As for this trio. Perhaps its better I do not know.... As strange as this sound its appears all those who have had any involvement with them, no matter in how big or small tend to admire these old rascals. The prosecutor said so himself over years he interviewed people and got nothing either from me or any other person who have had anything to due with these mysterious people. He said said he was always amazed at the loyalty these guys got.

But hell who wouldn't have a soft spot for a couple of geriatrics wafting under noses of authorities and vanishing off like a thief in the night.

With what we can only dream about?

Mal

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Mal, Interesting about the manueverbiliy of shps, I remember from my naval days that if a ships captain came undr the displeasure of the higher ups, an admirable would board the ship, automatically take command then order an entry in say san Diego harbor at full speed then simply relinquish comand leaving the unfortunate commander with a serious problem and breach of harbor regulations.

You would have remembered the Drumbeat with it's bevy of half nude girls manning the sheets sigh

 

[South Sea mariner]

Mal, Interesting about the manueverbiliy of shps, I remember from my naval days that if a ships captain came undr the displeasure of the higher ups, an admirable would board the ship, automatically take command then order an entry in say san Diego harbor at full speed then simply relinquish comand leaving the unfortunate commander with a serious problem and breach of harbor regulations.

You would have remembered the Drumbeat with it's bevy of half nude girls manning the sheets sigh

Cannot say I recall that. But we did not have much contact with the crew much at all as soon as loaded she was gone. However there was women on the vessel. Cannot say know much about the Navy. Merchant man myself.

Interesting to note in my family there has been mariners at least back to the early 19th century. My ancestor William Walsh was a English sailor that fought in the Napoleonic war and after that war and the war of 1812. They found themselves unemployed as seamen. They found employment on privateers fitted out in Delaware fitted out to attack Spanish Shipping during the war of South American independence. Another 2 years it will be two hundred years exactly my ancestor first settled in Chile with a senorita in Valparaiso leaving me a legacy of being a Chilean with a English surname of Walsh.

Since that time we had had countless family members seamen of all sorts and fishermen. And still today with the most English of sounding names I too carry on that sea faring tradition as did my father and fathers father before me. It was that sheer spirit of sea dog passed onto me as it was with my father. When I was young apprentice my father a captain never gave me favors other than if I had earned it. I had do every job from the bottom up. It gave me much better understanding of people and most of all dealing with people. Most of all the responsibility of lives you have in your and as captain the buck stops with you.

Cape horn as a shipping route traffic will soon diminish again as the Panama canal will get widened to take larger vessels. For me inter island shipping between the oceanic states is my bread and butter. Even then Chinese shipping are infiltrating and cutting us out of business. Fiji I get sugar exports and various cargo. Copra from Samoa. fertilizers and nitrates from Chile. Cement from Peru and timber from Ecuador. Wheat and rice from Australia. Building products from Australia and New Zealand and various other good on-shipped through various freight companies. The powerhouse is goods from Asia on shipped to pacific states. The main problem is most pacific island nations you leave port with hardly any cargo,

I have 15 crew

3rd mate chief engineer has rotating shift with two leading hands, they are in short an electrician and fitter. Their domain is engine room. Power plant and generators. At sea four hours on 8 off rotating shift. Myself the 1st mate, second mate. We make up the 3 executives of the watch. In which we rotate 4 on 8 off between ourselves. Each watch has 2 able bodied seamen. One acting as safety officer doing inspections and another floating between the bridge on look out duties or general maintenance or pestering me about crap. One in engine room monitoring, I have a chef and steward who does general cleaning duties with cabin and laundry and assist the chef when in food prep kitchen hand. They work set hours non rotating overlapping the 3 watches. 16 crew in all adding myself. Some times my wife comes with me but these days I have 3 sons in school.

In port duties various according to needs. As we a rather large vessel we need all hands required for docking procedures. I have crew all around the ship covering blind spots. Loading procedures vary according to cargo Although as stated before each port has complex set of procedures before we can get port clearance.

The chef and steward main duties in port is obtaining pre-booked supply of fresh food and toiletry supplies etc for the ship. Chief Engineer is in charge of oil and fuel supply and waste removal. 2nd mate is the load master of cargo as it is loaded as it must be loaded to procedure.. First mate generally handles the logbook, weather reports and communications in port and supervision of contractors. Some crew will be either loading or on shore leave or doing maintenance depending on needs.



And me in the office signing off on all work permits safety audits. Discharge environmental certificates, Safety and insurance requirements. Custom declarations, Crew and immigration manifest. Bio hazard declarations. Cargo manifests, ships cash flow. And all regulation required. Time in the busy ports is burning money. So speed is of necessity. Much cheaper waiting anchored out in the roads awaiting a berth.

That cost and perhaps pilot costs in some harbor where there is a requirements to be factored into transport rates in every voyage which as you could image varies from port to port.

At sea the ship is mostly run by auto pilot. Just taking navigation checks every have hour plotting on computer. Yet will still have charts as if the computer dies you can fall back on the charts. Even thou Now satellite navigation and transponders do all the navigation in the ship these days. In some modern ships now the electronics are nearly the same as an aircraft. We have radar that scan the sea as a collision avoidance system for ships that might come with in you danger zone.

Some times you have to work fast other times you just sit back and drink coffee. Coffee anyone?

Yep I some times wonder what my ancestor would make of it if went to day on my ship today?

Mal

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Gracias HAL, you have clared up many points for me. As for navigation, in my day with the sextant I was lucky to be within a 1/2 mile, none of this 2 or 3 ft, sheesh. Post some more . very interesting.?? you cotton picking right, the military made an addict of me..

 

[South Sea mariner]

Gracias HAL, you have clared up many points for me. As for navigation, in my day with the sextant I was lucky to be within a 1/2 mile, none of this 2 or 3 ft, sheesh. Post some more . very interesting.?? you cotton picking right, the military made an addict of me..

That estimation is still permissible today as standard when navigation with a sextant.

Growing up as an apprentice seaman I have sailed the beagle channel and Magellan strait many times. These days you require the services of Pilot to navigate the straits. Tricky currents and wind surges between mountain peaks can drive even most modern of ships onto the rocks. Indeed you can see many bones of ships that failed to tackle the strait.

Montevideo and Buenos Aires Argentina. Ah Buenos Aires I had my heart broken there Corina! She was fiery Latin lover quick with her temper quick in forgiving. The most passionate of lovers. Yet its the lot of a seamen that are doomed to never keep such a temptress. The call of the sea is Freedom and captivity at the same time. I was back and forth for several years on a chemical tanker taking sulfuric acid. El viaje de la muerte the death run. Shipping Sulfuric acid is very dangerous. As sea water and acid do not mix.

The tankers involve in shipping this volatile chemical have a limited shelf life as they are literally eating away. There was always the fear that a pipe would burst leaking sulphide acid into the bilge hitting seawater and creating an explosion from the chemical reaction. I read many years ago of a ship that suffered a similar fate. A few months after the ship vanished off the face of the earth some one found part of ships name washed up on a beach.

As you could imagine we hit the bars hard in Argentina. The city of beautiful women. 6 women to every man, paradise as they all had to compete very hard to get a man, any man. An no visit is every complete with a visit to the ports old dance halls the home of the tango and long legged beauties. The tango is a dance of love and if done properly you will impress your paramour.

But now all history many years later married with children and my Argentinean lover is all but a memory.

Coffee amigo?

Mal

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Yep, of course, hold the sugar. Did you ever hit the New Caledonia route ? I remember tjat I practiced Bombing on the remains of the ships that their captains didn't believe that they needed a port Pilot. The reefs were relatively loaded. Course we always made sure that the hulks were free of fishing parties. At times the natives would camp out in the hulks for an extended fishing party.

I was at 'ILE NOU'

Now that we have gotten you started Mal ======= as for the females. every where I went they were scarce or none existent, as for the Solomons, they wore the traditional grass skirts which effectively hid everything and hosted many types of insect life, filed teeth, weird red hair from bleaching, and chewed Betel Nut, and when was the last bath ?. in other words , not very attractive lo a western male, not like an Argentina lovely. Ya spoiled swabby.

 

[Oroblanco]

Yep, of course, hold the sugar. Did you ever hit the New Caledonia route ? I remember tjat I practiced Bombing on the remains of the ships that their captains didn't believe that they needed a port Pilot. The reefs were relatively loaded. Course we always made sure that the hulks were free of fishing parties. At times the natives would camp out in the hulks for an extended fishing party.

I was at 'ILE NOU'

Now that we have gotten you started Mal ======= as for the females. every where I went they were scarce or none existent, as for the Solomons, they wore the traditional grass skirts which effectively hid everything and hosted many types of insect life, filed teeth, weird red hair from bleaching, and chewed Betel Nut, and when was the last bath ?. in other words , not very attractive lo a western male, not like an Argentina lovely. Ya spoiled swabby.

Hmm are we trying to fudge things up a bit here amigo? After all, in the dark they all look alike, and you were indeed very far from home, and spending loads of time among an all-male community, with few chances for female type encounters. It is OK to admit it, after all it was wartime and life at a remote desert isle, they can't all look like Ginger and Maryann after all!

 

[South Sea mariner]

Hmm are we trying to fudge things up a bit here amigo? After all, in the dark they all look alike, and you were indeed very far from home, and spending loads of time among an all-male community, with few chances for female type encounters. It is OK to admit it, after all it was wartime and life at a remote desert isle, they can't all look like Ginger and Maryann after all!

Oro does have a good point Don Jose. They all look the same when your cross eyed. Coffee?

I suspect that is why so many Solomon islanders have blond hair?

Mal

 

[South Sea mariner]

Yep, of course, hold the sugar. Did you ever hit the New Caledonia route ? I remember tjat I practiced Bombing on the remains of the ships that their captains didn't believe that they needed a port Pilot. The reefs were relatively loaded. Course we always made sure that the hulks were free of fishing parties. At times the natives would camp out in the hulks for an extended fishing party.

I was at 'ILE NOU'

Now that we have gotten you started Mal ======= as for the females. every where I went they were scarce or none existent, as for the Solomons, they wore the traditional grass skirts which effectively hid everything and hosted many types of insect life, filed teeth, weird red hair from bleaching, and chewed Betel Nut, and when was the last bath ?. in other words , not very attractive lo a western male, not like an Argentina lovely. Ya spoiled swabby.

I have done 5 trips new Caledonia. one trip large mining equipment bought from a mine in Chile. Another time I shipped out Nickel.

Mal

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Oro, blushing but I preserved my What you and Mal failed to mention was the lack of bathing.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Mal, I assume that you weren't the capt on one of those unfortunate hulks that I practiced bombing on Port of New Calidonia

 

[South Sea mariner]

Mal, I assume that you weren't the capt on one of those unfortunate hulks that I practiced bombing on Port of New Calidonia

View attachment 1385623

Wow! looks like a very old picture of Noumea? When you were bombing those old hulks I was still just an itch in my fathers pants. I turned 50 today. My crew joke and recons its now official they can call me "the old man" now.

Still I have about 20 years to go before retirement. My eldest is training next year in seamanship training college. He needs a few seasons under his belt to one day take over from his old man.

Since my interest has been perked by my strange encounter with alleged treasure hunters. I have recently being reading up on few lost treasures.While by no means now an expert or have too much time to become one. However I still find it interesting to pass the time. One story I found interesting. Not a well know treasure story.

There was a Englishman I read by Richard Latcham. A History professor in the 1930s in Chile. Who wrote a strange book about a secret brethren of the coast and a group of pirates in 18th century that was plundering the coast of South America and build a treasure depot hidden away from the Spanish on the coast of Chile. An insane amount of treasure. The location had strange characters carved onto rocks along the coast of this location. There was an official expedition in 1933 lead by him. He believed he had narrowed the area down to 7 square miles. The treasure was allegedly hidden by oriental pirates and the great grandson or descendant of Francis Drake between 1600 and 1640. How true it is who knows? Apparently the rocks all have strange markings along the coast on a Playa. Incident a part of the coast I ship nitrates past many times.

Here is the cover of the book below.



Here is picture of the man below.



Sadly it not well known to the English speaking world as it was only published I believe in Spanish.

Mal

 

[Real of Tayopa]

My coffee mal ? That looks fascinating , I'll have to dig up a copy -- Since I know Spanish , obviously. Another book coming up someday -- shaddup guys - I still have lot's of time, am only 93 :

 

[Oroblanco]

Oro, blushing but I preserved my What you and Mal failed to mention was the lack of bathing.

As you are a life-long treasure hunter and prospector, I know for a fact that her bathing habits would NOT be an issue for you, amigo! Besides, the human nose can only smell something for a few minutes at most, after that you can not smell it. Also, you mentioned that many of the females there had RED HAIR? Isn't that a fairly common trait among Irish people? Hmmm.....

Now about that book ala Tayopa...? (Enquiring minds want to know!)

Please do continue, great posts!

 

[Real of Tayopa]

ORO, i AGREE, BUT the human mating ritual depends heavily upon first impressions, hence --- UGH etc. As for the reddish blond hair, tain't natural, but as a result of bleaching to sorta match your's, apparently a distant ancestor of yours musta been with Capt Cook not with Capt Mal. -- for beth
Book ?book ? who needs a book with you here. Start posting more often.my buddy and -----

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Regarding Richard Latcham and the book shown:

http://thegreatlosttreasure.info/Page5.html

I found this website a bit difficult to follow - rather like some of Harold T. Wilkins' books. However, the overall thrust is made quite clear!

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[South Sea mariner]

Hello old Bookaroo

Thank you for the link.

While I have always said I am not an expert on such matters. Theory is original to say the least that all treasure legends are connected to one great lost treasure. but the reality it is far different. While some may treasure stories have similar connections in some aspects. It appears that the theory is a little overdosed on steroids. Even with the likes of silly old me I can see holes everywhere in his theory. Thus it gives the impression of it being pseudo science backed conspiracy theory similar in the Fictional davinci code story. It appears in many of stories he has cherry picked facts from different treasure legends and weaved them together to suit his theory and conveniently discarded other facts that do no fit his agenda.

Like with all treasure stories its difficult where the truth begins and fiction ends.

Mal