Lost Dutchman Mine

[Cubfan64]

I fully realize that all of us are working with a legend of great controversy, but even with as broad a spectrum to reference from, it like all legends it is based on at least a few facts. The most important facts in circulation begin with the mine originating with the Apache who it is believed are the outcasts of the Aztec civilization. They were hunted by their own people and this is why they were so well tuned to the Superstition Mountains; the Superstitions being the northern gates leading into the homelands of the distant past, Utah and beyond. Left in the wide open, Peralta and his boys find the canyon and soon have markers and mapping put together under the traditions of their Masonic Jesuit forefathers. In the year 1883, two German prospectors stumble onto the location and find the mine as they are drawn to it via the sounds of rock picks at work. Here the legend begins to wander. Some say Peralta descendants were at work and were killed, but one way or the other Waltz and Wiser find a pit funnel on a slope with a chimney of rose quartz and gold centered in a pool of pelleted wire gold similar to rice. After working the mine for a short while, the two Germans are surprised and ambushed by Apache guards. Wiser is killed on location , but Waltz manages to slip from view in the nick of time. These two were best of friends since some time in their youth and Wiser's passing dealt a blow on Waltz of which he never recovered from. He buried his friend, concealed their newly prepared caches and headed back to Phoenix with enough ore to get him through. In this same year, another German by the name of George Adams who had also worked on the same canal system in the desert as Waltz and Wiser, came into the old calvary saloon in Show Low with two pack horses loaded down with chunks of rose quartz and gold wire of which he had recovered at the base of a tributary waterfall during a flash flood. This was the ore cache from the same mine and was only a stones throw away from the pit. Back in Phoenix, Waltz suffered a near nervous breakdown after his experiences at the mine and did not return until 10 years later. When he did, he removed gold from one of the cache sites he and his buddy had put together. This upset him even more to again experience the once violent scene of 10 years previous, and with that he never returned again. However, Adams did; 5 times to be exact. Through these trips of 1883, Adams lost 8 friends to Apache arrows and barely escaped with his own life each time. During that summer, they had located the mine and had begun a short lived plan for a cabin site nearby. On his 5th and final trip, Adams himself was struck with an arrow in his abdomen and made it back to as far as the calvary saloon. He fell into the arms of one of my relatives; one who had recently become the German's new son in law. Adams died in Spanish Fork, Utah some years later. Apache legend states that the squaws buried the pit mine using baskets and landscaped it over in the winter of 1893, whilst the braves stood guard during this two month period. Thats as good as it gets guys. Twisted

Well, this adds another story to the myriad of other legends surrounding the LDM. As you said in starting off, there is much controversy surrounding the legend, but there are at least a few comments you made that are contrary to any other information I've seen.

1) I've never seen a specific year for when the mine was located, however the range of dates I've seen have been anywhere from 1860-1877.

2) Jacob Weiss (Weisner, Wisner, etc...) is documented to have passed away in 1871 - far short of the 1883 date you put for when they supposedly found the mine.

3) You mention that Waltz went back to the mine 10 years after he had found it - he is documented to have died in 1891 - 8 years after you believe he found the mine.

You seem to be quite specific about dates and events - have you been able to come across any physical evidence to support this George Adams as having shown gold in Show Low or evidence that died in Utah - or even evidence that he did truly exist?

This is one of those "lost treasure" stories that has been around for so long that it's difficult if not impossible to determine where the facts end and the stories begin. And of course, as with every treasure tale, each story one hears told by someone is told as "fact" by that person - and yet, virtually every person has their own version of the "facts."

The statement of the indians covering the mine is certainly something I would not at all be surprised about - whether it happened in the time frame you believe or some other time, I would not be shocked at all if that actually happened. In fact, I believe one of the stories I read said that the writer spoke with an elderly female apache at one time who claimed to have been there as a child during the time the mine was covered in.

 

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[Twisted Fork]

I remember reading the same story of the Apache girl. The source of my info came from the archives at the Phoenix Public Library. They have a small room filled with the original books from the days of that period forward, most out of print for many years. Adams was a relative of mine and his experiences were told to me by my uncle, who's father handled some of the egg size nuggets himself. Adams collapsed in his fathers arms at the saloon, after being wounded by the Apache. Adam's only daughter was married to him. They were cattle ranchers on government land running as far south as the eastern trail out of Phoenix. The archives are filled with first hand info and maps you won't find anywhere else in the world and they do read different for sure. Hieroglyphic Canyon tells the true story about the mine, if someone could ever get the real skinny out of the Apache. Twisted

 

[Oroblanco]

Ditto on the Phoenix Public Library, I spent a number of hours there perusing their excellent collection of books on local history. A great source well worth a visit or three!

Oroblanco

 

[Old Dog]

I agree,
Very nice little collection.

I think the older the source the more accurate the info is going to be. at least a lot less "flowered up" or embellished.

Thom
OD

 

[Rennwaggen]

If you have read Brewer's book on
the KGC, you will come to the conclusion
that Waltz was burying gold-not digging it.

Howso

OMG!!!!!!!!! I can't stop laughing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OMG!!!!!!!!!!!

The KGC Loonies are coming out the woodwork here!

Yeah, every treasure that ever was has some connection to the KGC, Masons, and Knights Templar!!!

I guess if I found a mason jar full of Morgans (which we did) in a 250+ year old house we were tearing down, that must have been the home of a KGC member . . . not a 102 year old senile man who had died without family.

You folks keep it up!!!!!!!! Since John Candy & John Belushi are gone, we definitely need some comic relief here!

 

[Twisted Fork]

Man, Smart and gorgeous too........

 

[Smee]

Man, Smart and gorgeous too........

Looks like one of those Disney girls, Britney, Christina . . . something like that.

 

[BF750]

Hold the hormones guys, that's not her in the avatar.

 

[Twisted Fork]

The KGC is a real chain of treasures awaiting you my born again brothers and sisters; do good things with them and make your lord proud of you.........Twisted

 

[alec]

"The KGC is a real chain of treasures awaiting you my born again brothers and sisters; do good things with them and make your lord proud of you.........Twisted"

You are kidding, right? A real chain of treasures? To my knowledge no treasure or even proof of treasure of the type described by the self appointed gurus of the KGC has ever been located. The myths surrounding the KGC came from one source and that source was, in my opinion, less than reputable. They have been expounded upon over the years by people with alleged "secret" information about the KGC but it seems even the people with all of the info about the KGC can't find a KGC treasure.

I don't know a lot about the Lost Dutchman but I know enough to know that it didn't have anything to do with the KGC. Nobody was putting gold in instead of taking gold out and the Lost Dutchman didn't have anything to do with the KGC. The KGC was limited in their funds and organization and lacked the ability and the money to do the things that are attributed to them.

If you want to hunt the Lost Dutchman, then go for it, but leave the KGC out of it or you will just be wondering around in circles.

 

[Twisted Fork]

Looking back over my notes, I've realized a glitch that someone kindly pointed out above. As far as my sources go, it must have been 1881 when Waltz first took Wiser to the mine. I remember the family telling me that exactly 10 years had past since Wiser's death, when Waltz decided to return to the site to retrieve cached gold. As for the KGC, that's a good one. Slim chance of being connected. The KGC caches in themselves are quite real and numerous. They left sign clear across the country, everywhere they hit the Union hard. I know someone personally who has spent most of their life tracking them and he has dug up a bunch of them. They are connected in chains using Masonic glyphs. This was a sacred trust and only a few would disturb them back in the day. The clan and the vengeance at hand became the number one priority and this is where the trail left off.

 

[alec]

I guess I should have been a little more clear in my statement. The KGC did leave small caches of money and even caches of weapons and other supplies behind. I am aware of the recovery of a few of these myself. The caches I was referring to that I don't believe exist are the huge million/billion dollar depositories that are said to exist. That is why the Dutchman has been connected to the KGC by Brewer because he feels that any large treasure was put down by or belonged to the KGC.

The Dutchman had nothing to do with the KGC.

 

[Rennwaggen]

The caches I was referring to that I don't believe exist are the huge million/billion dollar depositories that are said to exist. That is why the Dutchman has been connected to the KGC by Brewer because he feels that any large treasure was put down by or belonged to the KGC.

The Dutchman had nothing to do with the KGC.

The answer is simple. If you don't have all that gold and silver to hide, you can't hide it. They didn't have it, so they couldn't hide it. It just doesn't work that way. The south was broke, most of the KGC members were broke because of the war and its aftermath. Most of the legends of missing gold are just that, legends, nothing more. No credible evidence exists for most of it.

If you could hide what you don't have, everyone would be rich. There probably were lots of small caches, easy to hide, and none in the million dollar or more range.

 

[Twisted Fork]

Ah com'on, you don't really look like that, do Ya?

Ok, now where did I put that National Treasure, Hmmmmmm

You think that's a story that's got em' running around, here In Utah, there is a multitude of nuts who won't accept that fact that the main Spanish mother lodes have already been found by a handful of old timers who happened on to some privileged information 20 years ago. I got kicked off of one of their forums just for telling them that. They're out there looking for 7 solid gold canons now that they said were made to fend off the Mormons. Some people will believe anything; just ask anyone who lives in Utah............Except me.

 

[Rennwaggen]

Ah com'on, you don't really look like that, do Ya?

Well, at least I showed my good side . . . I could have turned the "other cheeks"

Glad to see SOMEONE has a sense of humor, unlike them guys fussin --- I mean talkin --- about them bent trees. I thougt it was funny. I'll take the comment down later. I also thought from reading your posts, you were a decent sort of person who would not take offense. Glad to see I was right about that anyways.

I remember when I was a kid reading about 4 cannons being buried, and can't remember what I did with the old treasure hunting magazines. Musta been about 1985 or so. Also remember about a cannon filled with gold coins and planted with the muzzle pointing straight up and a soldier planted standing at attention . . . log time ago. I think I remember reading that it was found in Oklahoma.

Oh well, not going back to Louisiana to find out.

As for the KGC, read some of their literature that is still in existance. Their whole mission collapsed (and no one is going to hide a fortune with a $1 membership and $.10 & $.25 fines) at the end of the war, although there were apparently still some efforts to keep it alive. Even if everyone did pay to join, 600k in membership fees is it. If every member was fined once at each level (remember though the qualifications to be a member) that is an additional $210,000 which totals $810,000.

That may have been a fortune in the last 40 years of the 19th century, but remember they bought guns and land and other things. Therefore that fortune was depleted, spent.

The stories are just not credible in the amounts of gold and silver that are talked of.

I mean, if someone found a big cache, maybe they could leave the country with it and avoid the taxman, but it is highly unlikely in our day that something like that could be kept a secret. Greed and the desire for fame are too great to keep a secret like that. Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame.

 

[Twisted Fork]

The magazine article does ring a bell. It seems that since they didn't have T.V.,radio or cars and such, everything they touched was one art form or the other. Those were the days.

 

[jsn571944]

MEL fisher found A BIG TREASURE AFTER LOOKING FOR 18 PLUS YRS . HE FOUND IT BECAUSE HE NEVER STOPPED LOOKING FOR SOME THING THAT WAS BASED ON FACT . I AM A MASON AND HAVE BEEN FOR 30 YRS THERE IS NO K G C .BUT I CAN GUARENTEE YOU THERE IS A LOT OF TREASURE IN FL. LEFT OVER FROM THE SHIPS THAT HAVE SANK IN THE PAST. I LIVE A SHORT DISTANCE FROM A K G C MINE. SO C ALLED . IT IS EMPTY AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN, AND ALWAYS WILL BE ,ALL THIS K G C TALK IS IN GOOD HUMOR AND I MEAN NO HARM BUT TAKE IT FROM A WELL VERSED MASON THERE IS NO KG C .STUDY THE WAYS OF MEL FISHER AND BE WISE IN HIS WISDOM.H H TO ALL

 

[Connecticut Sam]

Was any of this treasure even found? I want to known.

 

[Twisted Fork]

The KGC were in Colorado of all places and it would appear that these guys in some way bridged a common code that was know to the early Christian Knights of old. The Spanish used it, the pirates used it and the KGC used it as well; same code, just a little different lingo in their symbols. Just a little different twist on one form from another. Positioning is the same otherwise. Like the difference in my handwriting from yours and choice of characters based on my favorite tales. Format can be religious or military or fairy tales or poems or Bible verses you name it; anything catchy per say. The Peraltas were into slang, cross referenced through Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese and old Latin lingo. Peralta picture stories in charades. Charades is the game root of reading all treasure sign.

 

[Connecticut Sam]

It seem that all the stories about KGC are in the south and the west. I live in Bridgeport, Connecticut and I am wondering if there are any stories about KGC treasures in New York state and New England.
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