Los Lunas Mystery Stone

I believe that you missed the point!
These marks on the stones is "writing" !
If fact, both Dr. Fells and Murray, can and do read this..
It's called, "Ogam" !
I have been to several "Ogam" sites with them and seen them read this.
Just, like you and I would read a newspaper!
At a site, in the Rincon Mnts, NM.
The "Ogam", Mentioned, "coming to this place and stopped for the hot springs"
And!
It went on the mention, that the group, was headed up stream, meaning, The Rio Grande !
At, Another site, in NM., the "writing" mentioned something like, "I am So & So, I claim these minerals" !
So!
The writing is telling us what and who and even when, they were doing here!
AND!
If you'd like to see this "Rincon Site", Just, Let me know, I'll take you right to it!
It's pretty easy to get to!

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NO! "TAKERS" ???

Dimmit!

Is everyone just going to sit around the "Home Fire" and never go out!
AND! Just argue about what is out there?
This "Rincon" Site is within a mile of where I park my Jeep
Or! fFor that matter, any 2wd vehicle!
Yet!
No one has asked to see/visit the "Ogam" Site! ??? ???


Or! The 2nd Victorio entrance, or, the Giant Spanish Turtle(s) or The Silver Cave or The Tunnel of Spanish Silver, Or! The Death Trap Rock !!!
All of which, sometime, I have offered an opportunity to see/find/recover, Or! Or! etc !
Does anyone have an explanation?
 

Problem is:
I have already been there three times!
Once when "we" found the writting, once to show it to "Gene Ballinger" and once to show the site to Dr. Murray!
That's more than I usually go to a "writting" site!
There's way too much out there to keep going back just to look at it!
Heck!
I know where there is a guy in a "space suit", an "Aztec" with shape pointed teeth, a dinosaur...
All kinds of Pictographs!
One day I need to sit down, drag them all out and scan them to my computer!
Heck!
If you're interested, arrange some time, and I'll show them to you!
It's a lot more interesting than looking at someone else's photo's!
 

Greetings,
This has been an interesting discussion. First let me turn to Capn Bill - you are curious enough to go see the stone for yourself, correct? There is a fee involved, which could be what is turning off potential visitors. The site is on State trust land, not right in Los Lunas but some distance from town.

There was some debate about Egyptian use of American products, including the study mentioned earlier by Dr. Babalova, but one little tidbit was not mentioned - an actual American tobacco leaf was found IN the wrappings of one of the mummies. Kind of puts that "it must be African products" argument to rest, especially after the hair core tests were run which confirmed the use of nicotine and coca.

Even some of the 'experts' now are willing to admit that SOME level of contact probably was taking place in ancient times; there are far too many otherwise-problematical factors for there not to have been some contact. There are depictions of American corn in ancient Indian statues:
http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku/dif/wmzpix.htm
Chickens were found being raised by Amerindians by the first Europeans to reach them, Old World cotton being grown in the New World (in fact cotton was the first thing offered to Christopher Columbus in trade by Amerindians) among other products that "somehow" got transmitted across the oceans in ancient times, like peppers, bottle gourds, hemp, cinnamon, incense etc. I have discussed this in other threads, and don't wish to bore anyone with my post but think about this:

People have accidentally crossed the Atlantic and Pacific oceans in modern (post Columbus) times in sailing vessels; Chinese junks have been carried to Oregon and British Columbia; Jean Cousin was carried across the Atlantic to Brazil but did not go ashore, while Pedro Cabral also was carried across in the same area to South America by storms, and is credited with "discovering" Brazil because he bothered to go ashore. A Norse trading ship was carried to new lands by storms but did not go ashore - they did tell the Norse in Greenland about it, and Leif Erikson was so interested in the tale that he bought their ship and sailed to find "Vinland". Then look at our ancient records, and find in Aristotle and Diodorus Siculus, that people who were the premier seafarers of their day, Carthaginians and Phoenicians, were carried by storms across the Atlantic to new lands, while they were sailing down the Atlantic coast of Africa - crossing the ocean by accident, just as so many others have. Remember that at any given time there were an estimated 10,000 sailing ships operating in the Mediterranean region in ancient times, that they were aware that the Earth was spherical in nature, how to navigate by the stars as well as by the Sun-compass or "gnomon", they had estimated the diameter of the Earth to within a surprisingly close figure of the correct value; accidental crossings almost had to happen and probably more than once. The most famous merchants and traders of the ancient world - the Phoenicians and Carthaginians - were known to keep their explorations somewhat secret. In fact Aristotle wrote that they were keeping the "secret land" a secret so they would have a place of refuge in case some calamity should overcome the homeland (Carthage) - in the event, Carthage was destroyed by Rome and the people were unable to escape because the Romans had blocked their port.

There are ancient shipwrecks found in the Americas which prove the crossings beyond doubt too - one found off Bimini quite by accident by divers searching for 'Atlantis' was examined by a Yale professor who stated it was Phoenician and dated to (about) 1200 BC. Others are located in Brazil, Mexico, and Honduras (Punic or Phoenician) and one possible Roman wreck off Massachusetts that has been casting Roman coins ashore for many years.

Of course the skeptic can keep on dismissing the evidence, because it is not a huge stone ruins site that could not be argued, and because the contact which was taking place was almost certainly NOT on any grand scale but was small and sporadic, and contact was lost when Rome destroyed the place which knew of the Americas. One colony WAS attempted but was later withdrawn by order of the Punic senate.

Sorry for the long post, this Los Lunas "dekalogue" (or Ten Commandments) stone is quite a mystery - however it may NOT be a "ten commandments" and as some of you know that type of writing can be read in more than one way (because the alphabet uses only consonants, the vowels being implied) the alternate reading (in Phoenician rather than Hebrew) is also very interesting, a tale of men surviving a shipwreck in a hostile land. I've been working on a book on this subject (ancient visitors to America) for eight years now, quite a journey but interesting.

Oroblanco
 

OroBlanco:
Are we talking about the same "10 Commandments" ?
At the foot of a "mesa", next to a gulley, that leads up to the top, of which, there are the remains, 200' long, rock foundations, of several very old bldgs!
One corner, a small piece of the "Rock", the top right is broken off !
Last time I talked to the Rancher, who's ranch lands are across (west side) the Rio Grande, he said that the "Stone" and property, was his!
Been in his family for early/middle 1800's!
I have a photo of the "Stone/Rock" around here some place.
I'll see if I can find it and get it "scanned" !
I'll "post" it on the Forum.
But!
From what I remember, the writting is, in very neat, clear and easy to read letters, 10 separate, individual lines, each one, going across the face of the "Stone/Rock" !
And!
Is read right to left!
SI?
 

Greetings Capn Bill,

Not sure if we are talking about the same stone? The stone referred to in the beginning of this post is located on New Mexico State Trust land, here is a direct quote from them:
It is a mystery in the desert hills near Los Lunas, New Mexico. It has puzzled experts for more than 50 years. It has been referred to by many different names -- Ten Commandments Rock, Mystery Rock, The Los Lunas Decalogue Stone. It is most commonly known as the Mystery Stone.

Mystery Stone is located at the base of Hidden Mountain, on New Mexico state trust land, about 16 miles west of Los Lunas. It is a boulder weighing an estimated 80 to 100 tons and is about eight meters in length. Nine rows of 216 characters were chiseled at a 150 degree angle into the north face. The characters resemble ancient Phoenician script.


The fee for the permit is $25 per family.

The text is in NINE lines, not ten, which is a strong clue that it is NOT a set of the "ten commandments" as some of the theorists have proposed. In fact there are too many letters for it to be the Ten Commandments written in Hebrew or Samarian as one theory has it. Here is a photo from the link posted above:
loslunas.jpg



Another view from a distance:
008R.jpg


Perhaps the rancher friend of yours holds the grazing lease on that state trust land? More than one rancher has come to view leased state trust land (and BLM as well) as their own, especially if they have been grazing cattle or sheep on it for generations. However as far as New Mexico is concerned the state sure believes they own it!

I don't know why but some of those theorists who seem enthralled with the idea of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel always want to identify every ancient inscription found written in Hebrew, Phoenician or Punic (all are quite similar until around the third century BC) as the "ten commandments" - rather ignoring the alternative explanation, that the worlds greatest seafarers of ancient days (Phoenicians and their Punic relatives) left behind calling cards showing that our history books have it WRONG - the Americas were NOT in utter isolation from the Ice Age to the days of Columbus or at least Leif Erikson.

Anyway if there IS a second stone, located on private land with TEN lines of text, I would sure appreciate any photos or other information you would care to share! (It IS possible, that there could be more than one inscribed stone in NM)
Oroblanco
 

Oroblanco, You say it is a tale about seafarers. Can you give an actual translation of the Phoenicians text for us? Just curious if you have the full details on it.
 

1liquigirl wrote: You say it is a tale about seafarers. Can you give an actual translation of the Phoenicians text for us? Just curious if you have the full details on it.

Hello - it is online (somewhere) will have to see if I can find it - if no longer online, I do have a copy somewhere. I will get back to you...

Oroblanco
 

The Los Lunas mystery stone is in fact written in paleohebrew, as other rocks on Hidden Mountain if one takes the time to climb it and check. There is evidence that someone once lived on the top of the mountain and even had an irrigation system from a spring that no longer exists. There are many small forts ringing the top of the mountain. The very highest stone on the mountain (south end) carries an inscription in palehebrew that says "The alter of Yahwah." Cuneiform plates have also been found there indicating a Babylonian presence.
Sometime I may go into this at depth. I've been there many times and love to visit the area.
 

Hi to All:
Cptbil & Bugs Here!~

If you want complete information on this site ;)
There is a "Book" that has photos of the Inscriptions and of the Buildings on the top of the Mesa
The Inscriptions are interpreted word for word
On the top it shows (photos)....
The main Bldg is about 200' long etc...
The Book :

"Discovery of Ancient America"
Copyright 1984
By; David A. Deal
Library of Congress Card # 85-50563
ISBN 0-933677-00-6 (Trade)

There's a lot of information on Ancient Languages (European/Middle Eastern) that are found in the west etc...
 

the truth about mystery rock the it used to belong to the Huning Ranch when jack huning had some trouble paying taxes he sold off much of the ranch to the indians and now the rock belongs to the pueblo of isleta

here is a story on the rock with the real translation



It can be a strangely harsh land, a place of desolation and loneliness, where even the natural elements can be friend or foe; an unchanging environment that is ancient and ageless, the holder of many stories and mysteries along the way. Home to the mountain lion and coyote, the lizards and the ravens, the dry, parched, desert landscape near Los Lunas, New Mexico, is made of scrub juniper, cactus, ageless hilltops and arroyos carved by wind and water for millions of years, stretching for miles in every direction as far as the eye can see, and beyond.

To those that call the area home, there is a magic in the dry desert air; a spiritual connection to unseen forces of nature; power that lies within or beneath the earth and electrically or magnetically charges the environment with an ominous presence that can be felt, and at times, even heard as deep rumble in the ground; an ancient power that casts a spell on those that choose to live the desert life here.

Considering the mysterious nature of the region, it shouldn't be surprising that one of North America's greatest historical mysteries is found here, obscurely located at the base of a common desert hillock, hidden from the elements and casual sight in a crevice of basalt rock. "Inscription Rock", "Los Lunas Rock", "The Los Lunas Decalogue Stone"... it has been called by many names, and there have been many attempts at translating the strange inscription on its surface, which has been estimated to be more than 2,000 years old.

Still an argument among scholars, the writing on the stone tablet appears to be Greek-Hebrew. In fact, several academic translations of the strange language theorize the message is actually an imperfect replication of the Ten Commandments, written primarily in Hebrew with several Greek and Phoenician influences, possibly left behind during the wanderings of Israel's lost "Twelfth Tribe".

In 1949, Robert H. Pfeiffer of Harvard University made a first known translation of the strange writing. Being an authority on the Old Testament, he concluded that the inscription was a copy of the Ten Commandments. He thought that the inscription was written in the Phoenician, the Moabite, and the Greek languages.

But that translation has been challenged by more than one researcher. In 1964, Robert L. LaFollete wrote a translation which indicates the mysterious inscription was actually a travelers story carved on the rock using Phoenician as well as some Hebrew, Cyrillic and Etruscan letters. Others have supported that claim.n 1979, an Albuquerque woman, on a visit to the site, thought she recognized a few of the strange letters on the rock. Dixie Perkins, a student of ancient text, became obsessed with researching databases in search of typing the strange letters of the inscripted message. The road was long and hard, and perhaps luck was on her side, but her efforts paid off when she discovered an identical form of writing all but forgotten by recorded history. She theorizes the text is indeed Phoenician, with Greek influences, but distinctly marked by a few ancient Egyptian characters, indicating the language of the text comes from the pre-Byzantine period. In fact, according to Perkins, the transitional Phoenician/Greek language was used for such a short period of time that it definitely dates the inscription to post-Phoenician society; the days when the remnant greatness of Phoenicia was giving way to a new Greek Empire, but when Phoenician craftsmen, such as shipbuilders, were still an important part in building the new Greek civilization. Perkins rough translation is as follows:

"I have come to this place to stay. The other one met with an untimely death in battle, dishonored, insulted and stripped of flesh. The men thought him to be an object of care whom I looked after, considered crazed, to be tossed about as if in a wind, to perish in poverty and need. By my kinsmen I was respected and honored, of blessed lot, with a body of slaves and so many olive trees, a peg to hand anything upon. Men punished me with exile to exact a retribution for a debt; meanwhile, I remain here as a rabbit. I, Zakyneros, just as a prophet, out of reach of mortal man, I am fleeing and very afraid. I am dross, refuse, scum, just as aboard ship a soft, effeminate sailor is flayed with an animal hide, all who speak offensively are lashed or beaten with a cane; but after a short time, the hurtful ones may be sated; at an unseasonable time, I remain to protect from the rainy southwest winds the hollow or the ravine. Very much harvest is gathered in, very much is in the woody dell and glen; very many bags of young deer. Very many hides with luxuriant hair; by the channel of a river, swift flowing. Very much is given by the gods, the choicest kind of gift, to call upon the gods for again and again, at the unseasonable time I become gaunt from hunger."

But Perkins research is not the last. The most recent development includes the study by researcher David Deal, who rediscovered another ancient artifact on the same hill, a place known as Mystery Mountain. Made of the same basalt material, there is a zodiac calendar craved in stone near the top of Mystery Mountain, several feet above Inscription Rock. After careful evaluation, Deal dates the calendar rock to around 107 B.C., when a total solar eclipse occurred over the New Mexico desert.

What is the origin of the mysterious rock inscription hidden in the New Mexico desert? Is it proof that ancient man visited the Americas long before Columbus or the Vikings boldly took to sea in search of new territories to explore?

The answer may not come easy, for few researchers can agree on a common translation. Perhaps some things are better left as mysteries, or perhaps the code will be broken tomorrow, changing the way we look at early American history. Either way, Inscription Rock certainly provides us with a real-life mystery, and an interesting study.
 

Thank you for posting that translation. I believe the Phoenicians were here and because their culture was advanced enough to travel to the New World, they were equally capable of leaving their marks to prove that this was so.
 

HOLA amigos,
1liquigirl I am in agreement with you, the evidence does exist to support Phoenician visitors to the Americas, and there is reason to believe the Phoenician translation more readily than a "Ten Commandments" version in the Los Lunas stone. For one, the text is not written in a set of lines matching ten commandments, in fact the text has to be "chopped" from one line to the next in order to interpret it as a Hebrew 10 commandments.

Phoenician like Hebrew is a written language of only consonants, so it is possible to interpret the writing in several different ways. With some letters, it is possible to get several different words, not unlike English with "Two, to, too" etc and you can have a very different meaning.

I have been working on a book on ancient visitors to the Americas for some time now, an abbreviated version was published in an anthology of "far out" theories a few years ago; my contribution is online at
http://books.google.com/books?id=9n...=underground+disinformation+ancient#PPA109,M1
The book is titled "Underground, the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History" edited By Preston Peet and contains articles from many outstanding authors including Erik von Daniken, Graham Hancock, Andrew Collins, Robert Shoch, David Hatcher Childress, among many. It is an interesting read IMHO (in spite of my contribution).

Please do continue amigos, quite a fascinating thread.
Oroblanco
 

Interesting stone--was there 25 yrs ago--just walked in, took photos, walked around the area--did not cost anything then--thought about going back but won't if have to pay now.
Thanks for the memories
Minstrel
 

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