Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hi IPUK <-- I suggest that you modify this a bit, unless you are responding to one of my posts

You mentioned the many fruitless expeditions for the LAD as suggesting that it is merely a figment of someones imagination and used to promote funds.

If you will excuse me for going back 'again' to the one legend of which I can speak of with any authority, There have been literally hundreds looking for Tayopa since IT was closed in the 1600's, without success, yet, as I proved, it exists.

Even today after my posting many times of it's rediscovery, they are still forming parties for the next season to look for it. So fruitless expeditions do not necessarily mean that it does not exist, nor that they have done their homework.

Me ? I am strictly the Devil's Advocate as I mentioned long ago.

Incidentally, you are a pain in the butt, you 'think', a much more difficult task for me to counter. .



Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I PUK: What's up?? no posts??

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Hi Mr LM

Yes sireee, I'ma here alright.

Just been busy with work and checking into a few things connected to this game that we all love and devote ourselves to.

Going back to the LAD, I don't believe it is a hoax or an imagination at all; simply something that was probably blown out of all proportion and will never being truly put to bed.

I would simply say that folks could put their efforts and resources to better use by going for other things that are perhaps less risky and frustrating.

Going back to Tayopa, when are you going to have the grand unveiling??
I know that you say there are obstacles with permits etc., not even an incy wincy look at one of the treasures for us believers?

I greatly admire your self-control and perserverance in such matters. Me, I would be too excited to see what lies behind, beneath and above. Maybe I would be the architect of my own downfall. But c'mon Mr LM, the proof will be in the taste - so to speak. I first recall coming across Tayopa when reading a book by Lt Britton Davis regarding the campaign against the Chiricahua Apache in 1883. He said that he met the alcalde of a small village/hamlet in the Sierra Madre mountains who gave that famous line about "on a quiet night here you could hear the dogs barking in Tayopa"- something along those lines and can't recall the exact town without digging out the exact book. But it was still in memory for most and the legend persisted.

 

[markmar]

I have a suspicion how the LAD are in the Superstition M . Three maps show the same area with " placeres del oro " . In one of these , says how the nuggets are like quail eggs .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning UK. While this belongs in the Tayopa forum, I will say that what is referred to here is Tayopa #1 near Guaynopa / Guaynopita, and under certain conditions could be true.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Marius my friend, unfortunately simply mentioning placers is not enough, there are many that 'originally' met that criteria. However it is thinking like this that I like.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Fort Apache History

 

[Oroblanco]

Please correct me here, but did it not go, that Gotchear told Adams that if you got to the two Piloncillos ("sugar cones" for the shape of cones of sugar as it was sold in that time) you had gone too far? I do not have my sources handy so could well have it wrong, thank you in advance.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco

I know how you have vast knowledge about all the famous legends , and you don't need your sources handly , but I have not problem to play your game .
And to play with the same rules , I say : Yes , you found it . Find the heart of the meaning .

I think you are reading way more into my question than was ever intended. I do not claim to have found "it" at all. If anyone is playing a game here, it is not me.

You have to understand, we have many people claiming they have found the lost Adams, the lost Dutchman, solved the stone maps etc and all have a different spot, none show any gold. Over 130 different people all claimed they found the Dutchman mine for example,so it stands to reason they can't all be right. So we usually ask questions, to try to figure out if the claims are true or not. The questions are not some kind of attack or game, just questions.

Good luck and good hunting Markmar, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos,

I had hoped someone would have the direct quote from Gotchear's directions to Adams. Here is what Wiki has, quote

[h=2]The Legend[/h] Adams, for whom the legend became known and whose first name forever has been lost to history, was journeying in his wagon from the state of New York to Tucson. After Apaches set his wagon on fire, Adams drove a dozen saved horses towards Sacaton, Arizona, with the hope to sell them. In Sacaton, Adams met a group of twenty one miners led by John Brewer traveling together in search of the gold fields. The party also accounted the Pima-Mexican guide who promised the prospectors to lead them to the valley of gold :“I know a place where canyon walls cry tears of [gold] every day! And those tears are larger than your coins!” Supposedly, In 1862, the young Pima-Mexican had gone on an expedition with the Apaches when those attacked Pueblo Indians in western New Mexico. While on the expedition he had seen gold nuggets that were larger than oak nuts. The young man had appreciation for works made out of silver and turquoise but had no knowledge of gold value. The miners made a bargain with the guide who only asked for a horse, a saddle, a weapon and some of the gold in exchange. The group was badly in need of horses, and when by fate Adams appeared in Sacaton with his twelve head, Brewer struck a deal with Adams on the terms that Adams would share leadership with him in exchange for donating his horses.
Along with their guide the group followed White River and its east fork into the White Mountains and entered western New Mexico. The guide paused and pointed to two mountains that were shaped like sugar loaves. “The gold canyon lies at the foot of those peaks,” the guide said.

from Lost Adams Diggings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As with any great lost treasure, there are always several versions.

As to your site Markmar, I won't ask any further questions which may be easily misunderstood. Congrats to you on your find.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

... The story of their trail is an opinion of the writer and don't have the substantial proof to secure the truth of the story .
I propose to leave away our " misunderstanding " and to make a new beginning ...

The original storytellers, who vary wildly in their versions, were at best third-party to the hearsay. If the original writers had no proof of the events, what basis are you using to make a 'new beginning'?

 

[Oroblanco]

So - Markmar, the big question about your site is - did you find any gold? Thank you in advance.
Oroblanco

 

[lastleg]

Well, bye.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hmm - seems that Markmar was playing a game here. The latest move was to remove a bunch of his posts. Glad he removed this one:

Markmar wrote

Oroblanco

I gave you the gold and you still to treated me with irony . You're welcome !

MARIUS

That was a very low accusation you had posted, and since you did not give me (or anyone that I am aware of) any gold, a false one as well. I don't know why you thought that admitting you found gold would automatically make you an outlaw unless you found it on someone else's claim or a prohibited area, and even then you can take photographs and not be an outlaw at all, and still prove you found gold.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

PS Markmar I also read your other post, in which you pondered whether to end "it" here, but really the legend of the Lost Adams will not die until someone finds it. Lost mines that get found, do not get discussed any more, no more books or articles are written about them and we treasure hunters simply move on to another. There are a bunch of formerly famous to very famous lost mines which are not lost today, and of course we do not discuss them. But simply for us to stop talking on one thread on one treasure forum, will not "kill" the Lost Adams Diggings at all.

 

[markmar]

Oroblanco

I didn't want to post the maps and althought you have started our debate with an ironic question , but I have read something which you have wrote in another thread , and I felt how you are entitled , in some way , to know little more .
This is the text

" *<BEGIN Personal opinion;> In my opinion, this Lost Adams Diggings is in the top 5 lost mine legends of all. Like the Lost Dutchman, it seems incredible to non-treasure hunters that such a rich gold deposit could remain lost for SO long, after SO many experienced prospectors and treasure hunters have searched for it. Also similar to the LDM, there have been a number of folks whom have claimed to have found it, but in virtually every case they have no gold to show. It is a gold mine, and yes it could be "worked out" but even in the most played out mine imaginable, there are still traces of gold remaining, and a placer mine would have large tailings piles if it were worked out. Beth and I have spent some of the best times we ever had, searching the mountains and malpais in the border area, and I still think this could be found by diligent searching and a good dose of plain old luck. <END personal opinion>* "

My theory about LAD , like all my theories , is a detailed and well designed work . I take the risk , if anybody who will go there and find nothing , to call me a liar .

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco

I didn't want to post the maps and althought you have started our debate with an ironic question , but I have read something which you have wrote in another thread , and I felt how you are entitled , in some way , to know little more .
This is the text

" *<BEGIN Personal opinion;> In my opinion, this Lost Adams Diggings is in the top 5 lost mine legends of all. Like the Lost Dutchman, it seems incredible to non-treasure hunters that such a rich gold deposit could remain lost for SO long, after SO many experienced prospectors and treasure hunters have searched for it. Also similar to the LDM, there have been a number of folks whom have claimed to have found it, but in virtually every case they have no gold to show. It is a gold mine, and yes it could be "worked out" but even in the most played out mine imaginable, there are still traces of gold remaining, and a placer mine would have large tailings piles if it were worked out. Beth and I have spent some of the best times we ever had, searching the mountains and malpais in the border area, and I still think this could be found by diligent searching and a good dose of plain old luck. <END personal opinion>* "

My theory about LAD , like all my theories , is a detailed and well designed work . I take the risk , if anybody who will go there and find nothing , to call me a liar .

I fail to see where my first question to you, which was to anyone not you specifically, was ironic. I had asked about a detail concerning the story, as in the statements of Gotchear about the piloncillos. What is ironic about that?

Next - where did I call you a liar? I said you had posted a false accusation, which you also removed.

I don't know what you are up to amigo, if this is a game you are playing or what. If you can't say whether you found gold or not, how can we say whether you found the Lost Adams or not? Kind of a Mexican Standoff of sorts, wouldn't you say?

Good luck and good hunting Markmar and anyone reading this, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[markmar]

Oroblanco

I don't play any game here . Maybe many others , but not me . I wouldn't to continue our controversy . If you want , we can start our debate from the beginning , like to nothing has happened . I am open mind and open heart .
I didn't wrote how you called me a liar , just you didn't understand what I have wrote . Never mind .
If there is gold or not , just follow your hunting instinct . Maybe is not LAD , but his twin brother .

Have a nice day .

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco

I don't play any game here . Maybe many others , but not me . I wouldn't to continue our controversy . If you want , we can start our debate from the beginning , like to nothing has happened . I am open mind and open heart .
I didn't wrote how you called me a liar , just you didn't understand what I have wrote . Never mind .
If there is gold or not , just follow your hunting instinct . Maybe is not LAD , but his twin brother .

Have a nice day .

Hola amigo Markmar - no need to go all the way to the beginning. Clearly you have found something, and your point is an excellent one that many treasure hunters would benefit greatly from. If I found a rich mine (gold OR silver I am not picky) who really cares what we call it? It could be the Bunny Wabbit mine and everyone could call me the biggest liar ever to post on a treasure forum, but I would be the one laughing my way to the bank. Finding a rich mine is a real payoff, unless one is searching specifically for one particular lost mine and are seeking the fame of being the one who found it.

I don't personally understand that kind of quest, because all fame is fleeting and who today remembers whom it was who found the lost PIma (Vekol) mine or even the Silver King, which was also a lost mine at one time? Dang few! It is in the history books for sure, but one has to hunt to find those names. Kind of like the fame one gets by assassinating a very famous person (in a way) in that for a time, your name hits all the news media, but a year later it is forgotten other than "that evil person" who killed so-and-so, with a few exceptions like Booth and Oswald. Who remembers Leon Czolgosz, a man who shot and killed a president in front a thousands of witnesses? Gold and silver however last, unless one spends it too freely, it won't spoil or rust etc.

Anyway I did not have any intentions of trying to antagonise you, thought we were heading that way fast simply because I had asked a couple of questions. As you know, there have been a bunch of people whom have claimed to have found the Lost Adams, and never seem to have any gold to show. Heck somewhere around here I have some old photos we took of a place just across the NM line that had a zig-zag canyon with a hidden entrance, two conical-shaped peaks, a waterfall (complete with water in it) a rock foundation of a cabin that appeared to have been burned down long ago, even found some bullets there that hinted at some kind of a fight and several other landmarks - but there was not a TRACE of any gold there, not one speck. I tried about thirty pans from the creek and even got some from well up the ridge behind the waterfall and there was no gold not even any black sand. Trouble is that during the Indian wars, plenty of cabins got burned down and there are so many zig-zag canyons that I don't think anyone ever even tried to count them all. I think this has been a major problem for many Lost Adams hunters but that is just my opinion.

I hope you will feel confident enough to share a bit more info on your site, it is certainly interesting and if it paid off for you - great! Your theory and site are different from most that get made public, for sure.

Good luck and good hunting amigo, and anyone reading our words, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[lgadbois]

Marius,

These maps are for the Peralta mines in the Superstitions. In my opinion, these maps have nothing to do with the Lost Adams and Zig-Zag Canyon.

Chances are very good that the location of the Lost Adams has been discovered by many over the last 120 years. And just like the rich gold find at Sutter's Mill that triggered the 1849 California Gold Rush, many of those rich discovery places no longer have much if any surface gold to be found by today's prospector.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

lgadbois:

Yes, I think those maps may be found on the Internet at either the Apache Junction Public Library or Superstition Mountain Historical Society website. The cursive "name" for each one is a clue to the source.

Markmar: I'm not claiming that is where you got them. That's not my style here on TN. I'm simply agreeing with lgadbois that these are not LAD material.

There are a few LAD maps. Then tend to be fanciful - such as the one found in Somewhere Out There. To my knowledge, the best map is in the Charles Allen pamphlet. And I'm not sure it would actually help someone find it.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo