let's start some buzz on the coin thread!

[ToddsPoint]

Understand this. I'm insulted, I feel no need to respond to a "challenge" from a member who apparently believes they can insult my deceased father as well. With that said where would YOU store coins and bullion? In your home? Buried in your back yard? I prefer a safe deposit box. Pictures? Right on the computer - I really hope you are getting my point. Lastly, if I did show you a photo of these coins on a gram scale in a bank vault, I've got $500 the member would challenge that as well. I have given opinions on TreasureNet, but never called someone's photo fake, or insulted their family. I thought doing that broke forum rules. If you want to rationalize this member's attack on me and my family, you have that right. I bled a little bit to make sure you do. Ten to one, TP is already scrolling through years of posts to find the word "Fake" in one. LMAO!

Put the coins on a scale, take a pic and show us. Show us the appraisers paperwork. It’s so easy for you to end this. The coins are fake and you know it. Prove me wrong and I’ll apologize. Forum rules prohibit me from calling you a liar and a fraud. All I did was call out two very obviously fake silver dollars. The ball is in your court.

 

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[AstralDruid]

To those who question the authenticity of someone else's coins,, what does it matter to you ? What difference does it make ? Does it make you feel better ? does the fact that whether you deem them to be real or have any relevance ?
I mean come on guys... come on. If a person shares a pic of some coins (which are coins whether or not someone calls them fake) and tells a story about provenance , what gives somebody else the justification to stand up and trample all over that story, call out fakes , liars etc...? Would it not be better to just see that the owner of these coins is happy with them and the memories attached, therefore making them as real , or more real than others ?.. Surf pirate was alluding to the same thing above. ,, so what if a website ,that you can find ,deems them to be fake ? what difference does it make ?..
I think some real treasure hunting may be necessary... for the treasure of the 'soul', which is most frequently expressed, by us humans, as Empathy towards others.



AD

 

[TORRERO]

To those who question the authenticity of someone else's coins,, what does it matter to you ? What difference does it make ? Does it make you feel better ? does the fact that whether you deem them to be real or have any relevance ?
I mean come on guys... come on. If a person shares a pic of some coins (which are coins whether or not someone calls them fake) and tells a story about provenance , what gives somebody else the justification to stand up and trample all over that story, call out fakes , liars etc...? Would it not be better to just see that the owner of these coins is happy with them and the memories attached, therefore making them as real , or more real than others ?.. Surf pirate was alluding to the same thing above. ,, so what if a website ,that you can find ,deems them to be fake ? what difference does it make ?..
I think some real treasure hunting may be necessary... for the treasure of the 'soul', which is most frequently expressed, by us humans, as Empathy towards others.



AD

I'm with YOU on this one, who the F cares if they are fake, you are not buying them, no skin off your back ...
I'm an audiance member here too and I like looking at the coins, I can't tell the differance, instead of attempting to start a fight, just say that they appear to be reproductions and you should maybe get them checked out.. How in the hell does someone know for certain what a coin is or is not by pictures on a web page ? Seems more like opinions to me...
Seems really pointless to me unless your goal is to smear the guy showing the pictures.. IDK
(not saying you are, but it feels that way)

 

[cudamark]

To those who question the authenticity of someone else's coins,, what does it matter to you ? What difference does it make ? Does it make you feel better ? does the fact that whether you deem them to be real or have any relevance ?
I mean come on guys... come on. If a person shares a pic of some coins (which are coins whether or not someone calls them fake) and tells a story about provenance , what gives somebody else the justification to stand up and trample all over that story, call out fakes , liars etc...? Would it not be better to just see that the owner of these coins is happy with them and the memories attached, therefore making them as real , or more real than others ?.. Surf pirate was alluding to the same thing above. ,, so what if a website ,that you can find ,deems them to be fake ? what difference does it make ?..
I think some real treasure hunting may be necessary... for the treasure of the 'soul', which is most frequently expressed, by us humans, as Empathy towards others.



AD

When it comes to believing someone's opinion, expertise, and credibility, it does matter. In a forum where you're trying to get accurate information, telling the truth is critical. If something is claimed to be genuine, and someone else points out that due to certain features that it isn't, I think we all want to find out if it's true or not. Many reproductions out there can fool experts, so, sometimes it's a very minor thing that tells the tale. Personally, I'd like to be able to spot fakes, so, any evidence in that area is helpful so I don't buy a reproduction purported to be genuine. That could save you quite a bit of money. TP mentioned in this thread that it would be a fairly simple way to find out one way or another whether the "coin" in question is genuine or not. If not, it no slam on anyone or their family. As we all get older, memory on past events and conversations can become a bit foggy. What we believe to be true, might be just a mix or conversion of other similar events. From the photos I've seen here, it looks like a reproduction. Now, if genuine coins were actually made with those same questionable features, I'd like to see an example of that. Part of that proof would be an appraisal from an expert, or, at least some supporting evidence that it meets certain specs, such as weight and diameter. I know if were something passed down to me, I would certainly want to verify that it's real or not regardless of my belief in the integrity of my relative. Who knows how many hands have held that item over the years since it was initially acquired. They could have been fooled too at some point, or, maybe the "coin" was stolen and a fake substituted by someone, sometime after the fact. Any number of ways this item could have made it's way into a collection. I've known shady dealers of all sorts of items that would substitute a fake for a genuine when you weren't looking. Getting a simple appraisal could risk that happening if you don't keep an eye on your item 100% of the time. Some crooked jewelry dealers were famous for swapping valuable genuine stones for paste. Don't let them take your item in the back room "lab" to be tested without you.

 

[pepperj]

this is right up that alley..... REAL, reale....fake counter-stamp! A coin like this should sell for 10s of thousands! click on this guys junk and descriptions.
View attachment 2184104

Coin Mint Holey Dollar Austr Countermark On 8 Reales Carolus III 1806 | eBay

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[xr7ator]

Terry Soloman. That morgan dollar you have is not a 1903 D, is it?
I'm surprised no one else has pointed this out yet.

 

[pepperj]

To those who question the authenticity of someone else's coins,, what does it matter to you ? What difference does it make ? Does it make you feel better ? does the fact that whether you deem them to be real or have any relevance ?
I mean come on guys... come on. If a person shares a pic of some coins (which are coins whether or not someone calls them fake) and tells a story about provenance , what gives somebody else the justification to stand up and trample all over that story, call out fakes , liars etc...? Would it not be better to just see that the owner of these coins is happy with them and the memories attached, therefore making them as real , or more real than others ?.. Surf pirate was alluding to the same thing above. ,, so what if a website ,that you can find ,deems them to be fake ? what difference does it make ?..
I think some real treasure hunting may be necessary... for the treasure of the 'soul', which is most frequently expressed, by us humans, as Empathy towards others.



AD

Let's just look at the Today's Finds for an example.
Read the 3rd entry in the sticky.

Now let's think why would they put a warning such as that up for folks to read.

Now I can't say this applies to every section of TreasureNet, or just the Today's Finds.
Though it would be pretty sad to just cover one section and letting every other thread in all the other sections get watered down with fakes/counterfeits/copies.

What does it matter one asks.

I personally like to believe that the base of authentic finds/purchases, and knowledge is what the forum is built on.

Let a person post, become a Charter Member, and sell one of these what does it matter coins. Another person buys it for $1000+ dollars, and finds out when getting it slabbed it's a copy worth nothing.

It's a slippery slope of all credibility of not only the forum, but the trust level of membership, and how they're perceived by the world.

I'm pretty open with my permissions, and I'd be pretty embarrassed to have one say "Well I took a look at that detecting site, and sir the bullshit that's posted up there makes me wonder"

I built and sold probably one of the hardest companies to own-scrapyard. I built that on 100% honesty, no lies, no cheating the customer, treated the richest and poorest with the same respect and pricing.
This has carried over to my retirement-and it has always been in my solid base of detecting ethics also.

SO it really does matter to some-and it doesn't matter to others because they have no skin in the game it seems.
Time is money they say-I spent a lot of money and time in this hobby, so my passion runs deep.

 

[AstralDruid]

Some very elaborate and detailed responses...
I get both sides of this dispute, i really do... I can understand the need for some folks to verify everything for whatever reasons, but I also get the 'freedom' of others to say what they want, be it anecdotal or otherwise.. Freedom works in all directions, and mob rule or group ridicule is not an expression of freedom... this is merely what i am trying to point out... If you don't like the look of the guy's coins,, that is fine, (don't buy them, not that i think he is trying to sell them), but to go so deep into the whole thing and suggest ulterior motives or lack of knowledge is just playground bully tactics.
The constant wish to be able to prove somebody wrong, is (in reality) a way of patting yourself on the back, at someone else's expense.
Agreeing to disagree is a very subtle solution, to a problem that has really no need to exist.

AD

 

[unclemac]

...well I DID get some buzz going to be sure!

I think it is in our nature to get the last word and "win". In this case, not really necessary.... The point was made in detail about the contrary opinion, it was clear and sited examples. Regardless...of the response to the opinion.... just let it go. You already said your piece and we understand loud and clear, both newbies and us old relics. No one has to win.

 

[villagenut]

Terry Soloman. That morgan dollar you have is not a 1903 D, is it?
I'm surprised no one else has pointed this out yet.

They were only minted in 1921 at Denver....so that is strange indeed

 

[unclemac]

Morgan Dollar Mintages Chart 1878-2021 | APMEX

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take a look

 

[Red-Coat]

We seem to have gone off the rails somewhat and I’m sure this isn’t what @unclemac had in mind when he suggested ‘creating some buzz’ on the coin thread. Interesting that @ToddsPoint mentions the purchase of fake coins from Temu. If only we knew where to get Temu $100 discount coupons, eh?

For me, collecting coins is all about the interesting backstories they often have rather than about their value. Here’s another with an interesting history.

Between around 1900-1930, cases of leprosy (Hansen’s disease) reached an all-time high in Colombia and a number of other countries. The Colombian government was greatly concerned and established three leper colonies, at Agua de Dios, Caño de Loro, and Contratación both to treat those afflicted and also to isolate them in the interests of reducing further spread of the disease. The colonies consisted of sanatoriums, usually surrounding a hospital named after the patron saint of lepers, Saint Lazarus, and called “Lazaretos”.

As a further precaution, the government began producing a distinct currency for use in these colonies to prevent transmission of the infection, which also served to reassure local populaces that standard coins would not have been handled by lepers. It was strictly forbidden for these distinct coins to circulate outside the colonies. There were four series of these coins, the first series being produced from March 1901 in denominations of 2 ½, 5, 10, 20, and 50 centavos. The final series was discontinued in 1930. Mine is from the third series, first issued in 1918 in denominations of 1,2, and 5 centavos, followed by 10 and 50 centavos in 1919:

The Colombian President Rafael Reyes went as far as ordering the incineration of all paper money in circulation and replacement with freshly-printed notes as a control measure to prevent the disease spreading. Leprosy was not well understood in these times but in fact it’s one of the least contagious of all communicable diseases (especially the less severe form known as “dry leprosy”). You can’t catch it from casual contact or from items that have been handled by lepers and it usually takes several months of very close contact with an untreated sufferer to create a risk of transmission.

Remember the scene with Steve McQueen as the escaped prisoner in the movie “Papillon” accepting the cigar from a leper in a colony in French Guiana when he’s trying to get a boat and supplies?:

 

[pepperj]

We seem to have gone off the rails somewhat and I’m sure this isn’t what @unclemac had in mind when he suggested ‘creating some buzz’ on the coin thread. Interesting that @ToddsPoint mentions the purchase of fake coins from Temu. If only we knew where to get Temu 20% discount coupons, eh?

For me, collecting coins is all about the interesting backstories they often have rather than about their value. Here’s another with an interesting history.

Between around 1900-1930, cases of leprosy (Hansen’s disease) reached an all-time high in Colombia and a number of other countries. The Colombian government was greatly concerned and established three leper colonies, at Agua de Dios, Caño de Loro, and Contratación both to treat those afflicted and also to isolate them in the interests of reducing further spread of the disease. The colonies consisted of sanatoriums, usually surrounding a hospital named after the patron saint of lepers, Saint Lazarus, and called “Lazaretos”.

As a further precaution, the government began producing a distinct currency for use in these colonies to prevent transmission of the infection, which also served to reassure local populaces that standard coins would not have been handled by lepers. It was strictly forbidden for these distinct coins to circulate outside the colonies. There were four series of these coins, the first series being produced from March 1901 in denominations of 2 ½, 5, 10, 20, and 50 centavos. The final series was discontinued in 1930. Mine is from the third series, first issued in 1918 in denominations of 1,2, and 5 centavos, followed by 10 and 50 centavos in 1919:

View attachment 2184370
View attachment 2184371

The Colombian President Rafael Reyes went as far as ordering the incineration of all paper money in circulation and replacement with freshly-printed notes as a control measure to prevent the disease spreading. Leprosy was not well understood in these times but in fact it’s one of the least contagious of all communicable diseases (especially the less severe form known as “dry leprosy”). You can’t catch it from casual contact or from items that have been handled by lepers and it usually takes several months of very close contact with an untreated sufferer to create a risk of transmission.

Remember the scene with Steve McQueen as the escaped prisoner in the movie “Papillon” accepting the cigar from a leper in a colony in French Guiana when he’s trying to get a boat and supplies?:

Interesting history behind the coin, thanks for sharing it.

 

[xr7ator]

Ok Red-Coat. Back to the thread. I have a good friend that went to China in late 2019. (yes, he brought back COVID with him and got us all sick) He bought a couple of trade dollars at some trinket store and gave me one as he knows I am a coin nut.
I noticed that the reverse was 45 degrees of the obverse and I had never seen that before so I did a little research. I belive mine is fake. I found a video on the internet where they melted one and it was brass inside. I forgot to weigh it...my bad, but here's the pics and would like your opinion. Thanks in advance!

 

[xr7ator]

And here's one for Mackaydon. I bought this for $5 not knowing what it is but I think it is silver. I tried a little to find but had no luck. Any help is appreciated. Oh, this coin is larger than the trade dollar or a morgan dollar.

 

[BigWaveDave]

Ok and I got one for you guys too…
I dug this in Ft Myers about 10 years ago.
By far the most random thing I’ve ever found. I was told it was a one rupee from the Hyderabad region of India, dated 1864.
If MackayDon, Red-Coat, or any other of my Tnet people can confirm or give more context or history to this bad boy, I’d love to know more. Slightly bigger than a quarter, but thicker. No doubt silver, and it’s got some chunky weight to it.

 

[unclemac]

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces58360.html

Very common and useful coin in the area, even in Australia early on.

 

[Red-Coat]

Ok Red-Coat. Back to the thread. I have a good friend that went to China in late 2019. (yes, he brought back COVID with him and got us all sick) He bought a couple of trade dollars at some trinket store and gave me one as he knows I am a coin nut.
I noticed that the reverse was 45 degrees of the obverse and I had never seen that before so I did a little research. I belive mine is fake. I found a video on the internet where they melted one and it was brass inside. I forgot to weigh it...my bad, but here's the pics and would like your opinion. Thanks in advance!

Fakes certainly exist, but yours looks good as far as I can tell from the pictures.

All British coins since 1887 (and all copper coins since 1825) were struck with ‘medal alignment’, i.e. both sides of the coin are the same way up when the coin is spun 180 degrees. That would also apply to British coins struck under supervision at foreign mints, such as yours from Bombay. Misalignment is not an uncommon mint error, arising from die rotation when one or other of the dies is improperly installed and/or becomes loose during repeated striking and goes unnoticed for a while. It’s more common on larger coins and neither adds nor detracts from collector value to a significant degree.

All of the fakes I’ve seen are cast rather than struck and lack detailed engraving, which is usually most noticeable on Britannia’s shield, the plume of her helmet and the flags of the ships in the background. Also, they don’t have a distinct angular rim outside the edge beading (it’s rounded at the edge), coupled with the reeding not extending edge-to-edge (it tails off from the centre).

Weight for the fakes I’ve seen is also significantly adrift from the specified 26.95g, which deviates only to a very small degree on genuine examples.

 

[Mackaydon]

xr-7:

Your coin:

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Don in SoCal
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[unclemac]

Fakes certainly exist, but yours looks good as far as I can tell from the pictures.

All British coins since 1887 (and all copper coins since 1825) were struck with ‘medal alignment’, i.e. both sides of the coin are the same way up when the coin is spun 180 degrees. That would also apply to British coins struck under supervision at foreign mints, such as yours from Bombay. Misalignment is not an uncommon mint error, arising from die rotation when one or other of the dies is improperly installed and/or becomes loose during repeated striking and goes unnoticed for a while. It’s more common on larger coins and neither adds nor detracts from collector value to a significant degree.

All of the fakes I’ve seen are cast rather than struck and lack detailed engraving, which is usually most noticeable on Britannia’s shield, the plume of her helmet and the flags of the ships in the background. Also, they don’t have a distinct angular rim outside the edge beading (it’s rounded at the edge), coupled with the reeding not extending edge-to-edge (it tails off from the centre).

Weight for the fakes I’ve seen is also significantly adrift from the specified 26.95g, which deviates only to a very small degree on genuine examples.

All of the fakes I’ve seen are cast rather than struck and lack detailed engraving...yet...you forgot to add yet...

I have a friend with the presses and capability to reproduce and strike most anything he would like.... of course he does not, he has way too much to do...however imagine a Chinese machine shop factory, with a couple of dozen presses etc.... AND there are A LOT of these factories.... so, down time on a machine, no orders to fill on #8? ... let's go back to minting a few XYZs. The fakes are getting better and better!