Legend of the Stone Maps
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Backwoodsbob
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Sorry for the confusion, but out in the field. Every stone i find have an animal on it. Bear ,eagle ,wolf. The . Bear is always at the north
Backwoodsbob
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Sent to quickly. Turtle, beaver gator. Those animals.
mike....the stone maps are definitely a big confusing can of worms
Old
Hero Member
Mike and Joe R. I'm surprised at both of you. This is a complete reversal of your stated basis for obtaining factual information and weighing it giving bonus points for first hand information. Joe R., you especially.
Joe (in the video) is not only a first generation witness. He was a participant. He, his father, his grandfather as well as several cousins all interacted DIRECTLY with Travis and with the stones. Joe had his hands on the stones long before Tom K., Clay W. Dr. Glover, Mitchell, B. Corbin, or any other expert or modern day testifier ever laid eyes on them. I believe he knows EXACTLY what he's talking about. Who knows what we may learn if we be still and listen with an open mind.
If you notice he is not a man prone to interjecting theory as fact. When he doesn't know, he says so. When he tells you what he saw, felt and heard, its straight forward without embellishment. Outside of dying and having a campfire chat around the pearly gates I don't think you are going to get any closer to the source than Joe. Isn't that what you have always admonished us to do? Get as close to the source as possible for accurate information? And now you cast doubt that his recollections are faulty and are so quick to return to your comfort level of information from less close sources? Why so?
Wouldn't it be better to hear the man out. Let the information continue to mount and when its all out there see where it takes you?
Joe (in the video) is not only a first generation witness. He was a participant. He, his father, his grandfather as well as several cousins all interacted DIRECTLY with Travis and with the stones. Joe had his hands on the stones long before Tom K., Clay W. Dr. Glover, Mitchell, B. Corbin, or any other expert or modern day testifier ever laid eyes on them. I believe he knows EXACTLY what he's talking about. Who knows what we may learn if we be still and listen with an open mind.
If you notice he is not a man prone to interjecting theory as fact. When he doesn't know, he says so. When he tells you what he saw, felt and heard, its straight forward without embellishment. Outside of dying and having a campfire chat around the pearly gates I don't think you are going to get any closer to the source than Joe. Isn't that what you have always admonished us to do? Get as close to the source as possible for accurate information? And now you cast doubt that his recollections are faulty and are so quick to return to your comfort level of information from less close sources? Why so?
Wouldn't it be better to hear the man out. Let the information continue to mount and when its all out there see where it takes you?
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cactusjumper
Gold Member
Lynda,
There is no ultimate truth here.......so far. I don't doubt what Joe said in the interview is what he believes. Perceptions of reality are different for most people. One man's truth is another man's fiction. Uncle Obie Stoker had many truths that were only true in his mind. Even so, he convinced many people to invest money and labor in his mine.
I can easily argue either side of almost any debate. Makes folks like you think.
One other thing.......Travis' daughter told Garry and his wife that her dad carved the Stone Maps. She told Mike that he did not make them for a hoax....I think. She may have lied to one of them. In my opinion, the existing evidence points to Travis carving the maps.
Good luck,
Joe
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He did the maps with a machine, did the zeros by hand, simple enough. So I needed to thread a barrel on my AR, my buddy Dave has a lathe in Prescott, the one I did at his house with his lathe looks 10 times better than the one I did by hand down here in Phoenix. Does that mean I never really threaded the one in Prescott?
sdcfia
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Yes, as close to the flame as we're likely to get for the time being. This doesn't guarantee the complete and ultimate truth of the matter, as the spin on Travis's manuscript now becomes the focus. Of course, it remains to be seen if Pegleg's leather map is itself genuine - there'll be plenty of speculation on that too. Pegleg is by far the most interesting part of this story, IMO. Travis may be close to the source, but Pegleg is the source.
You can bet that some folks with a big investment in the "Jesuits carved them", or the "Peraltas carved them" scenarios will deny their errors in judgement and cling to their long-held beliefs.
Old
Hero Member
Good morning Joe,
I'm with ya so far.......evidence points to Travis craved the stones. No argument there. Perhaps from others, but not from me. Its the where, when, how and why that remain to be answered.
I don't have a problem with both statements from Janie being accurate. How the questions were posed could have made all the difference in the answer. Example: Did your father carve the stones? Answer, yes. Did your father hoax people by carving the stones? Answer, Travis never hoaxed anyone. I believe both statements are correct. No lie in either statement.
As I have posed, I believe here but definitely on other sites, its what happened with the stones down line from Travis where all the hoaxing for financial gain came into play. And, got worse as it went.
The manuscript is, I believe, a historical fiction novel. Based primarily on factual events with an author's flare for weaving a fanciful story around actual events, people, places and things. Even that work was never sold or offered for sale by Travis. It gives us a glimpse into the heart and soul of a man. Beautiful in its execution. One that comes up clean of the down line mischief that today surrounds the stones. Its all a sad story, ripe with lessons in life.
Is it a Dutch Hunter guidebook? Probably not. That's where the how, when and why comes into play. I'd look more to the ground map photo for those type reference materials. Travis was an artist in many ways. But; an artist that knew his subject material very well. Any clues will come from that history........in my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
I'm with ya so far.......evidence points to Travis craved the stones. No argument there. Perhaps from others, but not from me. Its the where, when, how and why that remain to be answered.
I don't have a problem with both statements from Janie being accurate. How the questions were posed could have made all the difference in the answer. Example: Did your father carve the stones? Answer, yes. Did your father hoax people by carving the stones? Answer, Travis never hoaxed anyone. I believe both statements are correct. No lie in either statement.
As I have posed, I believe here but definitely on other sites, its what happened with the stones down line from Travis where all the hoaxing for financial gain came into play. And, got worse as it went.
The manuscript is, I believe, a historical fiction novel. Based primarily on factual events with an author's flare for weaving a fanciful story around actual events, people, places and things. Even that work was never sold or offered for sale by Travis. It gives us a glimpse into the heart and soul of a man. Beautiful in its execution. One that comes up clean of the down line mischief that today surrounds the stones. Its all a sad story, ripe with lessons in life.
Is it a Dutch Hunter guidebook? Probably not. That's where the how, when and why comes into play. I'd look more to the ground map photo for those type reference materials. Travis was an artist in many ways. But; an artist that knew his subject material very well. Any clues will come from that history........in my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Lynda & Hal,
"Any sub topics of Latin Hearts & Crosses are completely moot for me. Travis carved the maps. The people who found those items wanted to attach themselves to a legend and placed the Latin Heart at the spot where legend says the other maps were found. Legend is wrong in the discovery location, so that makes the Latin Heart as nothing more than an attachment to a false legend.....and when the going got rough for the "finders", they threw a temper tantrum and destroyed what they found."
Pretty much what I have been saying for awhile now.
The above quote from Ryan, since he has the evidence that none of us has seen, seems to be the true story.
Good luck,
Joe
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markmar
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And another fact that is not legend . Following Travis footprints and reading all the material which he have left behind , nobody never will be able to decrypt the maps and to find the " heart "
And sometimes I am wondering , we are here to find who carved the stone maps , or to find where is the " heart " ?
Where did go the treasure hunting spirit ?
And sometimes I am wondering , we are here to find who carved the stone maps , or to find where is the " heart " ?
Where did go the treasure hunting spirit ?
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Marius,
You can follow the Stone Map trail to the heart:
It ends in this exact spot:
Funny how that works out but there is nothing there, except the heart. I have been there on this marked trail:
The trail goes right through this claim, which has a view of Weaver's Needle that Ruth was said to be
looking for. It also matches where Ely wrote that Ruth's body was found:
Anyone seen the triangle slash?
I guess you just have to be there.
Good luck,
Joe Ribaudo
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cw0909
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the heart insert
could one of you that live in AZ, get a img front & back of the
insert from the stone copies, that the bluebird cafe place has
and post it,if anyone has access to other copies of the stone
maps could you do the same with those, just the front & back
of the heart insert, unless you want to take imgs of all the copies
you have access to thats ok too. thanks for going to the trouble
could one of you that live in AZ, get a img front & back of the
insert from the stone copies, that the bluebird cafe place has
and post it,if anyone has access to other copies of the stone
maps could you do the same with those, just the front & back
of the heart insert, unless you want to take imgs of all the copies
you have access to thats ok too. thanks for going to the trouble
Old
Hero Member
Hal, I can't explain the Zeros. I can guess but that's all it is. My guess would be he didn't have the same equipment handy in Oregon that he had in Texas.
Joe, I'm totally onboard with the Latin Heart and crosses being Johnnie come-lately copy cat additions. I never held any faith in them as antiques. Depictions of certain land marks along the way? Perhaps, but obvious after though additions and not likely done by Travis.
The stones did and do hold my attention and curiosity. Regardless if they are replicas, creations of Travis' imagination or tracings from an older map, there is a ring of truth to them. Albeit hidden amongst a whole bunch of BS.
Joe, I'm totally onboard with the Latin Heart and crosses being Johnnie come-lately copy cat additions. I never held any faith in them as antiques. Depictions of certain land marks along the way? Perhaps, but obvious after though additions and not likely done by Travis.
The stones did and do hold my attention and curiosity. Regardless if they are replicas, creations of Travis' imagination or tracings from an older map, there is a ring of truth to them. Albeit hidden amongst a whole bunch of BS.
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Actually I don't think I could come up with a better way to deceive someone than by trying prove I didn't create something due to my shoddy hand craftsmanship skills, catch my drift? Oh look at my perfectly machined stone maps, there's no way I could have created them, just look at the crappy zeros I drew personally on back. Unless those crafty map making Mexicans had a helicopter to map out an aerial of the Supes I don't buy it.
gollum
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Here are some of the Museum Heart Insert:
No Flash
With Flash
...and the back
Mike
No Flash
With Flash
...and the back
Mike
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