Legend of the Stone Maps

[nobodie]

I am new at this, a little computer phobic. using my phone. throwing my 2 cents in, about the stone maps. To me it is not who carved them or are they copies of copies. I am more interrested in whats on the stone maps, are they real? Travis went looking for something.

 

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[somehiker]

I am new at this, a little computer phobic. using my phone. throwing my 2 cents in, about the stone maps. To me it is not who carved them or are they copies of copies. I am more interrested in whats on the stone maps, are they real? Travis went looking for something.

That he did, with the full advantage of working with what only he knew for sure were the originals. Or at least some advantage.
The copies the rest of us have been using are by all accounts, different in some ways, which makes it more difficult but not impossible to achieve some measure of satisfaction .

 

[nobodie]

can anyone prove whats on the stone maps are real with out guessing?

 

[somehiker]

Well, you are a stalwart and I admire your tenacity. Seriously, good luck - I hope I live long enough to eat my words.

Thanks.
I'll admit it all takes a certain faith in the veracity of the stones, along with a trust in one's own abilities to separate the wheat from the chaff.
As I've said before, it's a challenging pursuit, this hobby of ours. And probably one of the most intriguing treasure legends that we are still relatively free to pursue.

Regards:SH.

 

[somehiker]

can anyone prove whats on the stone maps are real with out guessing?

That's what these discussions are all about nobodie. And have been since 1949, when the Tumlinsons first began their own search.
The manuscript and photos may offer us the first glimpses into what Travis found and thought was proof.
Others have made many submissions to "stone map" discussions over the years since the stones were displayed in the June '64 issue of Life Magazine, including those who have been sharing such info on websites for the last 18 years or so.
Since none of us were part of Travis' experience however, guessing is still part of the journey.
At least until we have seen the elephant.

 

[gollum]

Too much circumstantial evidence SO FAR for me to think they are fakes. Nobody has yet to explain (to my satisfaction):

1. Charlie Miller stating to Al Reser that Travis Tumlinson came to his house after he left the gas station. Miller said he helped Travis clean the stone maps in his driveway. He said the grooves were caked with dirt and they had little roots growing in the grooves as well. Reser and Miller both told that story to a few people (Jim Hatt heard it from Reser, and told it to me).

2. Latin Heart:
a. Found in the same place as Travis Tumlinson said he found the Stone Maps.
b. Heart Insert fits the heart hole perfectly EXCEPT for the thickness
c. If the Latin Heart were placed on top of the heart insert in the heart shaped cavity, it fills the thickness nicely
d. Bill Hidden worked closely with the man that found the Latin Heart. He obviously believed in their authenticity

3. Stone Crosses:
a. Yes, even though one of the finders was Michael Bilbrey (seller of quack cancer cures), that doesn't automatically mean they are fakes (it does put them in a bad light though)
b. Whomever made the Stone Crosses must have had access to the Stone Maps. The size is too perfect
c. The Stone Crosses fit perfectly on top of the Cross on the back of the Lower Trail Stone Map.

4. If Travis made them as a hoax, WHY OH WHY did he keep them mostly a secret until after he died? Does not make a bit of sense. Especially when you combine that with the mental image of Travis Tumlinson sticking his finger in the big hole on the lower trail map stone saying "If I could only figure out where this is, I'd be a millionaire!" Joe says that he has a source that says Travis tried to sell the Stone Maps. Now, while I believe that Joe believes what he is saying is the truth, I wonder why, in all the years that people have been investigating the stone maps, has NOBODY come out publicly stating that Travis Tumlinson had tried to sell them the Stone Maps? Only, a friend of a friend. There are also many possibilities that Joe's friend was mistaken about the person that tried to sell them the Stone Maps. Since Clarence O. Mitchell used the nom de plume Travis Marlowe, it would be quite easy for someone to have mistaken the name Travis Tumlinson for Travis Marlowe. We also know for a fact that Clarence Mitchell attempted to sell the stones AT LEAST once. On one occasion to Richard Peck, which is the reason for all our wonderful letters of investigation by Elbert Love and Melford Brower. That very same Bernice Magee Collection of Stone Maps Letters has a very interesting annotation:

Below is an excerpt of an e-mail that I received from Bernice relating the story of how they camein contact with Clarence and Grace Mitchell. (Clarence went by Mitch and he was also referredto as Travis and Marlowe. He was almost never referred to as Clarence)

Another reason to think maybe the person Joe is referring to as trying to sell the stone maps mistook Travis Marlowe for Travis Tumlinson.

Mike

 

[nobodie]

I want to make comments about what I know about the stone maps. Not good with computers. I will try again. The trail on the 2 trail maps is 2 to 2 and a half miles long, from begining to end. Each dot is a directinal marker. All of the X's point to a dot,the X's are canyons with a directional marker at its head. The line at the bottom of the first trail stone is not a river but a trail. There are 2 dots , 1on each side of the trail. That is were you leave the trail and follow the markers. The line at the top of the heart trail map is also not a river but another trail. When the map says to study or search for the heart, it does not mean the stone heart. It means the heart that the priest is pointing at. That is were the treasure is.

 

[nobodie]

Oh I forgot the circle next to the heart that it is buried in 1 of their mines.

 

[nobodie]

Somehiker Thank you for responding. first time in a forum.Tyying to be productive.

 

[deducer]

c. The Stone Crosses fit perfectly on top of the Cross on the back of the Lower Trail Stone Map.

Not to nitpick, but I think you meant the upper TS; and is there for a good reason.

 

[somehiker]

Not to nitpick, but I think you meant the upper TS; and is there for a good reason.

I'm wondering now if the "DON" was on the back of the original stone.
Wouldn't it be interesting if the original lower map stone also had a cross cut into it ?
If Travis altered the copy of the LTS by substituting "DON" for a cross or even something else like a "box" on the back of the original , could he have gotten the idea from Dobie's account of Pegleg's deal with the Spanish Don ?

 

[cw0909]

Boxes and boxes and bags and old barrels full of neat stuff .
And oh yea ! A better understanding of how this whole thing got to be so complicated over time.

JMO over time, small leaks of info that was found not to be of importance
(so the folks dropping the leaks thought) to treasure

 

[cw0909]

welcome, thats the prob there are copies, so where are the originals, then maybe
it could be determined if the maps are a real map,as it stands there are some
variations on the maps and on the what appear to be copies of maps too
so without the originals, its hard to know whats what on the maps we see

I am new at this, a little computer phobic. using my phone. throwing my 2 cents in, about the stone maps. To me it is not who carved them or are they copies of copies. I am more interrested in whats on the stone maps, are they real? Travis went looking for something.

 

[deducer]

I'm wondering now if the "DON" was on the back of the original stone.
Wouldn't it be interesting if the original lower map stone also had a cross cut into it ?
If Travis altered the copy of the LTS by substituting "DON" for a cross or even something else like a "box" on the back of the original , could he have gotten the idea from Dobie's account of Pegleg's deal with the Spanish Don ?

We will hopefully know the answers to those questions within a year or so, maybe even sooner.

The difficulty I have with this proposed scenario is the fact that "DON" is embossed as is the cross on the UTS, which is something done the hard way, a MO we are quite familiar with.

With nobody knowing any better, wouldn't Travis have carved the letters rather than embossed them?

The "box" continues to intrigue me to no end, and that it should be included in the same sentence as "find the map... find the ____ (box)" could be rather significant in that it could be a harbinger of to what extent Travis altered information on the Stone Maps, and if to such extent, then we can only hope that Travis really made a clean breast of everything in his manuscript.

Although what benefit altering "box" to "heart," offers, I have no idea.

 

[cw0909]

Although what benefit altering "box" to "heart," offers, I have no idea.

deducer, ive been thinking about that too, maybe TT was going with the old stories
legends of heart = treasure, to throw everyone off he was or had hunted with or who
would hunt, because he didnt totally trust who he had told of the stones, they look for
heart he looks for box

 

[wrmickel1]

Oroblanco Amigo,
This is just my opinion, I believe you are absolutely correct in your statement,I myself have expressed the same in numerous post,I think the original map used to create the stone tablets has already been posted on TN, there are several key symbols to point this out,but, that's just my opinion, and no,there is nothing to indicate the peralta's had anything at all to do with the stone tablets,thats just wish full thinking on some ones story or theory. there's also like I have said many times over,the tablets make no mention of the following, treasure,gold,siver,or peralta's,. maps are usually made to guide someone on a quest to a destination for a reason,there is usually a beginning and an ending trail to be followed,In the case of the stone tablet map I think when the original was copied there were certain things left out,and I think whoever created the stone maps for whatever reason was not given all the info at the time concerning the real map,there for the creator of the tablets would consider them real.and think they had all the correct Info.
.NP

dont know whats up with Challenge for Superstition Gold
it wont give me a reply box, found something take a look

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine....ms/buscar/lg_115astonemaps50.jpg?m=1372399178


trick of the light i guess, look what happens when that above img
is rotated

rotated
View attachment 1188361

enlarged
View attachment 1188362

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...hallenge-superstition-gold-8.html#post4606135

RC do look

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...hallenge-superstition-gold-8.html#post4606360

Italowestern

I posted this......elsewhere tonight:

For some time now, I have had my doubts that the Stone Maps would lead anyone to a treasure or viable mine. That's not to say that the locations marked on the maps have never led to anything of importance, perhaps after the fact.

As more information has come out concerning the stones themselves, including Travis carving them, I have wondered how he could have made such accurate maps without spending years in the range. Not only are the maps topographically (for the most part) accurate, but the stories and legends of the Superstition Mountains are woven into them.

The most likely scenario here, is that Travis was sold a map, not stone, and he found a number of clues that convinced him it was a true waybill. One of the people he met around the mountains had to be the author. After following the map and finding many of the symbols and markers right where the map showed them, and yet no treasure.

His supposed area of search was away from the area he actually searched, as he still felt something might be there. He came to realize that a book and some dramatic forms of the map's were his path to some measure of wealth. They would finance his real area of interest. He never found a buyer or completed his book before his death. It was his wife who finally found a "sucker".

Just one man's theory.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo.

I am surprised that you posted that cactusjumper. You have proof that another group of people were following a similar if not the same set of stones, in the same area, years before Travis became involved. So, before any objective person could possibly come to the conclusion that Travis carved the stone maps, that person would have to first explain the fact that another man, with connections to the Tumlinson clan, was using a set of stone maps to find treasure, in the same general area, about the time that Travis was sevenish. That's a big nut to have dangling in the wind.

The question is, are they the same stones? Answer that first and the question of Travis carving the stones will be obvious.

You have been unusually quiet on that article. No significance in your opinion?

Mike,

Hope all is well with you.

As I recall, when you first got started on these stone maps, I was one of the first guys you asked for advise. Funny how smart you have gotten over the years, and how much dumber I have gotten. Is your other job a rocket scientist with NASA?

Take care,

Joe

How bout me Joe, I'm eye,s get tan smarter or still just a dump ass

 

[cw0909]

How bout me Joe, I'm eye,s get tan smarter or still just a dump ass

im confused,why does my post, have to be in your post, if you are talking to joe
my post
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...egend-stone-maps-post4606702.html#post4606702

 

[somehiker]

We will hopefully know the answers to those questions within a year or so, maybe even sooner.

The difficulty I have with this proposed scenario is the fact that "DON" is embossed as is the cross on the UTS, which is something done the hard way, a MO we are quite familiar with.

With nobody knowing any better, wouldn't Travis have carved the letters rather than embossed them?

The "box" continues to intrigue me to no end, and that it should be included in the same sentence as "find the map... find the ____ (box)" could be rather significant in that it could be a harbinger of to what extent Travis altered information on the Stone Maps, and if to such extent, then we can only hope that Travis really made a clean breast of everything in his manuscript.

Although what benefit altering "box" to "heart," offers, I have no idea.

Looks to me as though the "DON" was embossed by sanding or rubbing the area around the letters.
In the case of the museum stones, not much material was removed, so not as difficult or time consuming as the cross on the UTS.

View attachment Don BW.bmp

However, one thing in favor of the "DON" being original is the fact that it is upside down relative to the way the LTS seems to be oriented.
In other words, a clue perhaps to how that stone needs to be viewed when following the instructions given by the Priest.

Note what is at the top of the stone when that stone is inverted.....

View attachment BW Trail 1 inverted.bmp

Could that be an illustration of what kind of (box) one needs to look for ?

Once again here is Ryan's censored scan of the relevant page of Travis' manuscript....

View attachment Tumlinson Manuscript A.bmp

In the part which I have outlined in red Travis is quoting someone else, as the last line indicates.
Perhaps it's just a mis-translation on their part.

 

[deducer]

However, one thing in favor of the "DON" being original is the fact that it is upside down relative to the way the LTS seems to be oriented.
In other words, a clue perhaps to how that stone needs to be viewed when following the instructions given by the Priest.

Note what is at the top of the stone when that stone is inverted.....


Could that be an illustration of what kind of (box) one needs to look for ?

Not only upside down relative to what is on the front, but also none of the three letters are on the same level as the others, with the D being the lowest and the N being the highest.

I agree that the "boxed" notch bears some significance as to what to look for at the beginning. In that the "DON" has the most weathered surface, I am wondering if it was that side that was buried facing up (as the map sides were buried facing together) and so was the first thing the digger would have seen.

Once again here is Ryan's censored scan of the relevant page of Travis' manuscript....

View attachment 1189150

In the part which I have outlined in red Travis is quoting someone else, as the last line indicates.
Perhaps it's just a mis-translation on their part.

A mis-translation was also something I was thinking of. Could it have been that the word "coazon" threw them off? Travis and whoever had helped him translate it may have noted that several other words appeared to be of phonetic spelling, and then perhaps assumed "coazon" meant "cajon" (Spanish for container/big box/crate/drawer)?

Hard to miss the manner in which Ryan censored the word(s) before "box" which seems to suggest that an initial word was crossed out and another put next to it, noting also that Travis's hand writing is smaller than the type text.

 

[somehiker]

I believe the surface of the "DON" side was already weathered before the letters were added.
While caliche deposits might form on the stone while it was buried, it would not be subject to such weathering while underground.
The pitting visible is predominately on the letters, and almost absent around and in between, which indicates that the shallower pitting, at least in those areas, was removed during the creation of the letters. As I said though, it might be a wasted exercise to put too much thought into the how/why/what of the "DON", unless it is also present on the original stone as well.

Regards:SH.