Kicked out of my local park

[Trooper733]

d: (above ) In my experience with small communities with only one city officer or city marshal, early Saturday and Sunday mornings are when they are usually off duty, because they typically work a ten or twelve hour shift in the evenings on Fridays and Saturdays. We were always taking traffic calls and working any crashes in their city because the one officer was off duty Saturday and Sunday mornings. I still hit the parking area at the football field here on Sunday morning early after a home game on Friday night.

 

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[Faithryder]

I have detected the yard where the cop lives before he started renting the place. Yes, I also detect other towns around and have never had any issues, found some nice things in Dodge City. I also have running permissions on several properties around town. Detected the school as well, half of the park used to be the high school football field up until the 60's so that is why I like going there and it is right across the street.

 

[Red James Cash]

I think Tom in CA has a valid point, be subtle and avoid a "stink". On another point I picked up in your post, I don't believe the ordinance, if passed, allowing city officials to come onto your property anytime to "inspect" said owners animals would hold up under challenge. No visible or obvious violations=no probable cause; (not even reasonable suspicion?). I think it would be a violation of a persons 4th amendment rights, and would require a search warrant, if the inspection could lead to fines or criminal charges. I see lots of room for abuse in that little ordinance. (I know this last part is off the topic of MDing in the park, hope you forgive me)

Its a big deal these days to see how far things can be pushed with violating peoples rights.I remember reading that bill that Faithryder is talking about,i didnt know if it passed or not,i guess it did.

 

[boogeyman]

Heres the part that gets me.His park huh?You pay taxes,its your park

What I was thinking too!! His park!?!? If it goes upside down ask the city guy if he can show you his deed or any documentation that it's his park. Since it's gone upside down might as well make him think a little before he lets stupid statements roll out of his mouth! If you want to, you might tell him in a non threatening way that you'll be filing a discrimination lawsuit with his name at the top of the list.

If it looks like it's just his decision, since you live close to the park, spend a week cleaning up every piece of trash you can. Drop by his office and hand him the (hopefully) big bag of trash and ask him if removing the trash like you do is damaging. Sometimes you have to show people a picture book to make them understand, bless their little hearts......

 

[Fletch88]

I have never given much thought to this "big town" versus "small town" psychology. Perhaps I just haven't run into any of the mayberry RFD "community watch-dog-ism" mentality out here. But I'll tell ya what:

a) If I were travelling through those type states where little towns like you describe existed, and

b) if I spotted a cool 1800's park I wanted to detect, and


c) I feared some psychology of "small town" existed like that, then

d) I would just make matters simple and go at odd-ball times like sunrise on a Saturday before people are up, etc....

But that's just me, and I like turf-hunting old silver

Great advice Tom! You could win the battle but in the long run lose the war. Just think when that certain city council meets and decides to ban metal detecting specifically so as to not have this issue come up again.

Staying inconspicuous in the public places is simply the best way not to screw it up for the rest of us!

 

[Red James Cash]

Staying inconspicuous in the public places is simply the best way not to screw it up for the rest of us!

So you think running and hiding is going to protect metal detecting?What other problems has running and and hiding solved.To late to do that anyway,its already in their minds so theres no point to it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

So you think running and hiding is going to protect metal detecting?What other problems has running and and hiding solved.To late to do that anyway,its already in their minds so theres no point to it.

James, good post, and valid questions. The "mental image" that runs through your mind when you read what Fletch wrote conjurs up "sneak around" and "break laws", right ? Or put another way: "Why go at more discreet inconspicuous times, if we're not doing anything wrong?". Have I got the gist of what you're thinking ? My thoughts:

a) It depends on what you mean by: "already in their minds" . If we construe an individual isolated "scram" (from someone who perhaps was just in a bad mood, or a cop who was only responding to a busy-body call), then I do not construe many such episodes as necessarily constituting "new law" or "new rule" that needs to be fought or clarified. On the contrary: quite often these are just isolated incidents that never amount to anything.

I can give you example after example of that, where someone heard a griper (even someone in authority). So md'rs "shook in their boots" when word circulated amongst md'rs in that locale. But then 2, 5, and 10 yrs. later, you never heard of it ever again. Oh sure, the original person had to "give lip service" and sure, he wasn't defiant, etc... But beyond that, it turned out to be flukes. Assuming you or subsequent persons don't similarly stick out like a sore thumb again.

b) You ask if "running and hiding" is going to protect metal detecting. Well, YES! You gotta realize James, md'ing (in turf anyhow) has admitted connotations. You are NOT going to get "every last person" on earth to "sign off on it + love & hug you. Yes we ALL wish that red carpets were rolled out for us.

Believe me: I too wish I could waltz right over beach blankets at archie conventions, walk through ball games in progress, etc.... But it aint gonna happen. Why swat hornet's nests? Rather than trying to get "all the hornets to love you", why can't it be the "right thing to do" is to avoid certain individuals that might not like it? Yes I wish it wasn't like this. BUT IT IS.

If someone is very skittish about the fact that not every one will like it (and that they might have to pick opportune times), then their best bet is to pick another form of detecting rather than turf. Eg.: stick to beach, forest, demolition sites, etc....

A way to think of it is this: Like nose picking: NOT illegal, right ? But sheesk , don't even you use a little uh .... "inconspicuous timing" so as not to offend those who might not like it ? Rather than calling that "sneaking around" ? Same thing for detecting. It's not appealing to every last person. As much as I'd like to "convert" them, I'm resigned to reality.

 

[Red James Cash]

You ask if "running and hiding" is going to protect metal detecting. Well, YES!

Maybe but i doubt it.To look at it from another angle,those who hide what theyre doing can also be seen as theyre hiding because theyre breaking the law.They can be looked at as sneak thieves.Hiding what youre doing,a natural tendency would be to think youre up to no good.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Maybe but i doubt it.To look at it from another angle,those who hide what theyre doing can also be seen as theyre hiding because theyre breaking the law.They can be looked at as sneak thieves.Hiding what youre doing,a natural tendency would be to think youre up to no good.

You're right. It can be seen that way. Afterall, why avoid certain individuals "if you're doing nothing wrong"?

I guess you can try to convince them "it's totally legal and you'll leave no trace". Or ..... you can just make matters simple, and stay off their radar.

Might that be seen as "sneaking thieves" ? SURE! Ok, fine then: sneak around. You are simply not going to get every last bureaucrat and gardener to hug & love you.

Even on any city turf you presently hunt (perhaps you have permission or "permits", etc...), I bet that in 1 day, while sitting at my desk here in CA, I could bring a crashing end to that. All I'd have to do is make some calls to key people there and ask: "Is it really right that Red James should be digging up the park?". Or "Why can he profit on the city's expense at taking and removing park features for his own fun and profit ? Don't those things belong in the city museum?". Or "what if he finds an indian bone?". Etc... And before long, you would find md'ing shut down at spots you thought were cool.

But OF COURSE WE/I wouldn't do that. Why? BECAUSE WE AVOID PUTTING SUCH THOUGHTS IN PEOPLE'S MINDS. And sometimes the *best* way to avoid putting those thoughts in people's minds, is simply not to be seen by them in the first place.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Example: I once had a lady on the beach tell me my detector bothered her dog (I think she thought it emitted some sort of sound or frequency that only dogs heard??). Ok, you tell me: Was it my obligation to please her? Or do I give lip service, and avoid that one individual? Or if someone flips you off in traffic because they don't like your lane change: Do you try to get them change their opinion, or do you simply speed up, fall back , and avoid their gaze ? Same thing for md'ing, nose-picking, etc....: Some things in life are like that. If that bothers a skittish person , then they should avoid turf, which tends to have the most-such connotations.

 

[Red James Cash]

I once had a lady on the beach tell me my detector bothered her dog

You should of told her the look of her in a bathing suit scared the hell out of you.

 

[Red James Cash]

I guess you can try to convince them "it's totally legal and you'll leave no trace". Or ..... you can just make matters simple, and stay off their radar.

Thats the problem,its no longer off their radar.

 

[Red James Cash]

The guy thinks the park is his and he doesnt want holes dug in his park.That is in his mind.Its in the cops mind also.Dont be surprised if theres signs up in the near future.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Thats the problem,its no longer off their radar.

For past-tense sakes, you're right. You can't change the past. But you can certainly keep it off their radar from then-on-out, right ?

....Dont be surprised if theres signs up in the near future.

If they continue to have the mindset that the park is "theirs" and that you and I will leave "holes dug" in the park, then yes. That's why it's important to KEEP that from crossing their mind. Because the more it crosses their mind (the more they think of you), is the faster a "sign" becomes a reality.

 

[Fletch88]

I guess I will just continue to "sneak" around, so I don't come up on their radar! Good luck to those who want to take the opposite approach.

 

[Red James Cash]

For past-tense sakes, you're right. You can't change the past. But you can certainly keep it off their radar from then-on-out, right ?

That all depends on the persons radar youre trying to stay off of.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

That all depends on the persons radar youre trying to stay off of.

"staying off radar" (ie.: not attracting attention, swatting hornet's nests) is not something that has an exact recipe. It's sort of like the skill/talent of being able to pick up on single women. You can't "teach" it. Or like this talent: I had a buddy who could "joe-cool" his way into and onto ALL SORTS of private property, with nothing but a friendly chat at some total stranger's door-step. But my batting average was only a fraction of his. I tried to study his techniques (copying his lines, posture, etc...), but .... it was never as good as his methods/approaches.

So too is the psychology of metal detecting . It's something you can't put an exact recipe/finger on sometimes.

 

[Red James Cash]

Some people are more observant than others,some take their frustrations out on others.Officials are sometimes power mad,hungry and push it and you and the law.Incognito,laying low, works.Alot just depends on the other person.

 

[George (MN)]

What happens if you go into"his" park with just a screwdriver, is it considered a digging shovel when no grass is removed?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

What happens if you go into"his" park with just a screwdriver, is it considered a digging shovel when no grass is removed?

George, I have actually heard of many folks (even skittish grovel-at-city-halls type folks) say that this "slit" and "pop" method does NOT constitute "digging". Nor is a screwdriver considered a shovel, etc.... So in their mind, they have avoided violating any verbage that uses the evil word "dig". My thoughts on this:

a) It's going to be pretty hard to get to coins 5" deep or more with this method. Although, if I'm determined, I can make a pretty big/deep hole (oops, I mean "slit") if I heard a deep silver coin down there, haha.

b) I have my doubts that some busy-body would be "sold" on this play of semantics. I mean, heck, they could merely see you detecting (even if you weren't digging) and just come up to boot you. Without caring HOW or even IF you planned to retrieve, in any fashion. Simply because they THINK you're about to make a mess (whether it's true or not). So semantics aside, I just have my doubts this rationalization would carry you far.

c) But if someone employed this method along WITH a little common sense to avoid-those-who-might-gripe, then you'd have a good compromise. Eg.: pick low traffic times (night time, Sat 5am to 7am, etc...) and ...... on the off-chance someone actually ever *did* see you and gripe, then you can roll out this semantics. Although I don't think it would ever come to that. For starters, you'd simply never be seen. And even if you were, you'd just get a scram, and I highly doubt you'll ever engage them in a conversation of "dig" vs "pop", blah blah.

So the best solution is just to avoid those who might gripe. So peaceful. So serene.