Jim Hatt's Cave

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good evening Matthew: When you were exploring the Petrasch Camp Site where he kept his tools, did you see any markings on the rocks in that area such as pictographs? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

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[Matthew Roberts]

Good evening Matthew: When you were exploring the Petrasch Camp Site where he kept his tools, did you see any markings on the rocks in that area such as pictographs? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Greg,

Near to Petrasch's camp and Jim Hatt's canyon and cave are a few native American pictographs. The area is high up on Tortilla Mountain and there are still faint remains of Mescal pits nearby that the Apache would use to roast their agave for food and to make a strong drink from. There is what appears to be a large cross on a cliff face on the west side of Tortilla but it is difficult to tell if it is natural or someone made it look that way. I've found Indian pottery shards, metate's and hand mono's as well as chipped and broken pieces of arrowheads and points. It's pretty apparent the Indians (Apache) would use the top of Tortilla Mountain quite heavily.

Best,

Matthew

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Thank you Matthew: You mentioned that you at one time explored what is call Old Cottonwood Canyon which starts at the saddle on Tortilla Mountain and ends up flowing into Peters Canyon. From you previous post, it was possible to travel down that canyon at one time before the brush got so thick that it now becomes very difficult. When you went down, did you locate anything in that canyon of interest? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Thank you Matthew: You mentioned that you at one time explored what is call Old Cottonwood Canyon which starts at the saddle on Tortilla Mountain and ends up flowing into Peters Canyon. From you previous post, it was possible to travel down that canyon at one time before the brush got so thick that it now becomes very difficult. When you went down, did you locate anything in that canyon of interest? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Hello Greg,

Old Cottonwood canyon on the west side of Tortilla Mountain is a long rough and brushy canyon that eventually empties into Peters canyon.
There are many interesting things in that canyon, mostly Indian artifacts and a couple of interesting prospect diggings from long ago.
This canyon is so far off the established trails that very few hikers have ever had reason to explore the canyon, you have to go out of your way just to get to it.
This is a plus for the canyon because everything in there is pristine and much the way things were 150 years ago.
The cattle at one time kept a trail open from the head to its mouth but since the cattle are gone from that country (1983) the trails are choked with trees and thick brush, cat-claw and manzanita and almost impossible to get through.

Best,

Matthew

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good evening Matthew: Did Jim Hatt stay in that cave all the time he stayed in the canyon or did he have any other campsites in that surrounding area? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Good evening Matthew: Did Jim Hatt stay in that cave all the time he stayed in the canyon or did he have any other campsites in that surrounding area? Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Hello Greg,

Jim Hatt centered his mountain activity on his cave for about 2-3 years and did a tremendous amount of excavating a hillside across the canyon to the east of his cave.
This excavation was in a barren area and even though he worked at it for well over a year, it came to nothing.
Jim always took his dog along with him and even though he used the cave which was an excellent shelter from the elements, he always slept in a tent he had set up inside the cave. I never could understand that.
Jim did not range out far from his cave during the time he was there which was also something I found hard to understand.
You could always tell exactly where Jim was or had been in the mountains. Jim was a smoker who smoked a certain brand of cigarettes and everywhere Jim went and stopped you would find his smoked cigarettes.
The first time I was ever to the Mercury mine Jim was interested in I found by simply following his trail of cigarettes.

Best,

Matthew

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Thank you Matthew: Great posts. Greg

 

[SPARTANOC]

cactusjumper,

Yes I agree completely with that. My interest with Hatt's cave was more concerning the geology of the area and one thing in particular that stuck out.

About 50 feet down canyon and on the same side of the canyon as Hatt's cave was a rock landmark with a hole in it.
A drawing on a piece of paper of that rock with the hole was attributed to Rhiney Petrasch allegedly he got it from Waltz as a clue to his mine or cache.
This paper drawing appeared in a couple Dutchman books, I believe it might have been in Helen Corbin's Curse of the Dutchman's Gold.
I am not sure about the origin of the drawing but Al Reser knew of the drawing from his earliest days of hunting the mine and he had a copy of it in his files.

Here is Al's copy and a photo of the rock next to Hatt's cave.

View attachment 1672111 View attachment 1672112

Hatt's cave did fit Waltz's description of his, "two room house under a shelving rock" as told to Holmes on his deathbed. Clay Worst uses that term to describe Waltz's house in his Dutchman lectures at the SMHS Museum each year.

Best,

Matthew

Matthew

Out of respect and the thought of it being an honest question; Why do Hunters of the past, believe the cave (house) that Waltz was supposed to have used back then - be a LARGE two room house under a shelving rock? Almost everything I've read about those who feel they found the Two Room house, find a cave type opening (a housing area) that is pretty large in circumference. Other than the description of a 'Two Room house...' what has made anyone think its a large room? Couldn't the Two Room house, be smaller than originally thought, which could explain why it's never been found? I mean, many have searched and have come up with nothing OR find an area that got close to the clues, but didn't end up being the correct Waltz area. Just a thought...

-SpartanOC

 

[markmar]

Matthew

Out of respect and the thought of it being an honest question; Why do Hunters of the past, believe the cave (house) that Waltz was supposed to have used back then - be a LARGE two room house under a shelving rock? Almost everything I've read about those who feel they found the Two Room house, find a cave type opening (a housing area) that is pretty large in circumference. Other than the description of a 'Two Room house...' what has made anyone think its a large room? Couldn't the Two Room house, be smaller than originally thought, which could explain why it's never been found? I mean, many have searched and have come up with nothing OR find an area that got close to the clues, but didn't end up being the correct Waltz area. Just a thought...

-SpartanOC

I believe Waltz said it was a two-room house fundation in front of a shallow cave.